twoandfourteen

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I never said that was a "benchmark". I said it was something a DC would have to account for from a good QB. It's something that could happen if the guy goes off. If Tyrod "goes off", he's not getting you anywhere near 375 -- even if you add in his rushing yards.

Honest question here -- are you saying that 44 games (the entirety of Tyrod's career as the Bills' QB) is too small of a sample size? I was talking ceilings and very good performances, not minimum standards. If you want my opinion on what a reasonable expectation is for a quality day from a decent QB, it would be 250/2. Think "Andy Dalton in his prime".

Interesting question. Let's take a look! 2015-2017 QBs with 375yds or more & 4 or more TDs: http://pfref.com/tiny/h5Wgl 2015-2017 QBs with 375yds or more http://pfref.com/tiny/6H47Y 2015-2017 QBs with 4 or more TDs: http://pfref.com/tiny/T4Rwe Spoiler Alert: Tyrod Taylor does not appear on any of those lists. Matt Moore, Trevor Siemian, and Brian Hoyer do. Anyway, I wasn't talking about a fan's "expectations". I was talking about a DC preparing a gameplan -- you know, trying to account for things that might happen. Ben Roethlisberger might throw for 375/4 because he's proven himself to be capable of doing it, so the DC has to account for it. It is a reasonable concern. Tyrod Taylor won't throw for 375/4 because he's shown to be totally incapable of doing it, so the DC doesn't have to waste the time worrying about it. There is no concern about Tyrod's passing attack. Tyrod's ceiling is probably 285-290 passing yards in a single game at his very best. A good QB is probably around 400 at his very best: http://pfref.com/tiny/67Ef5 Well, you win this one. I should have said a "good" day for him would be 200 yds passing. A "very good" day for him would have been 230 yds passing. Thank you for the correction. I tip my hat to you, good sir.

I know, right? I mean, only just over half of Tyrod's 44 games were under 200 yards passing. (Of course, there were more than a few of those 200+ games where he was at 150 or so late in the 4th Q and padded the ol' yardage stats in garbage time, but we don't need to dig that deep.) Passing Yards 43 games under 300 - 97.7% 38 games under 280 - 86.3% 30 games under 230 - 68.1% 23 games under 200 - 52.2% 16 games under 180 - 36.3% 7 games under 130 - 15.9% Passing TDs Games with 3 passing TDs: 6 - 13.6% Games with 2 passing TDs: 7 - 15.9% Games with 1 passing TD: 19 - 43.1% Games with 0 passing TD: 12 - 27.2% 31 games with 1 or 0 passing TDs - 70.4% 38 games with 2 or fewer passing TDs - 86.3% 13 games with 2 or more passing TDs - 29.5% Such a stupid and delusional post, I know -- what with using actual facts and numbers to illustrate reality. How dare I?

I didn't say "regularly". I said "be capable of". Huge difference. A defensive coordinator has to account for the possibility that Ben Roethlisberger could put up 375/4 (just passing) on him on a Sunday. That would be considered a really good game for Ben, right? A defensive coordinator accounting for the possibility of a really good game from Taylor only has to worry about the guy throwing for 225/2 and rushing for 40/1. Now do you see the difference? Or do we have to take a step back and review how 375 is more than 265? Also, that analogy is awfully specific and personal. Feels like there's some projection going on here. Want to talk about it?

You should care -- because the two approaches are not equivalent. One is a slower, much more inefficient way to gain yardage and score points. I'll let you guess which one that is. Where it matters is at the end of the game when you're adding them all up: One QB threw for 11st downs, the other threw for 4 and ran for 3. One QB threw for 4 TDs and kicked 1 FG, the other threw for 1, ran for 1 and his team kicked 2 FGs.

Now consider the 1500-2000 yards passing and 10 passing TDs he was not close to capable of providing. Tyrod's inability to operate a modern passing offense put the Bills in such an offensive deficit that his rushing contributions are kind of irrelevant. (Also, a I'd be willing to bet that a significant % of his rushing #'s came in garbage time against prevent defenses, but I don't care enough to look that up.) I've said this before. The notion that defending Tyrod somehow "kept defensive coordinators up at night" is an absolute joke. A QB that can drop 375 yds passing and 4 passing TDs on you at any time is infinitely more dangerous than a QB who can only throw for 200 yards passing (on a very good day, let's be honest), 2 TDs, 40 yds rushing and maybe 1 rush TD. If I'm a DC, I let Taylor scramble around all day -- he's never going to score quickly and often. I'll take giving up 240 total yards at Tyrod's best as opposed to 375 to a real QB.

That's a fair point -- I can respect that. The "process" thing is just stupid all the way around.

Um... The Bills have one of the best in American pro sports. People play it at their weddings. "Hey ey ey ey" is one of the first things toddlers learn how to say around these parts.

I definitely agree about the "clutch" criticism. He was terrible when the Bills were down by even one score -- it was game over. I don't agree about the 300 yd comment. The ability to produce 300 yards of passing offense in a game at least occasionally in the modern NFL is a bare minimum standard of competence at the position. During Tyrod's tenure from 2015-2017, 52 NFL QBs produced at least one 300+ yd performance. Tyrod barely made the list, but only because he hit 300 one time -- and it was in OT vs the Dolphins. He was sub-300 at the end of regulation. For reference, Brian Hoyer hit 300+ 7 times.

It's called the "wishbone".

How dare people use passing yards to assess the performance of a QB? What's next -- using the number points each team scores to determine which one won the game? Let's go to the tape! Breakdown that video!

Football in 2017 is far different than it was in 2003. 300 yards passing in a game was still a bit of an accomplishment 15 years ago. Today, 300 yards in a game is pretty routine for even the most average of QBs. it's a passing league -- coincidentally, Brees' career took off just as the league rules started to evolve to favor the QBs and the passing game. Your point sounds good on the surface, but you and I both know that it's not really that applicable. (Also, even in that harder-to-pass era, Brees averaged more passing yards per game than our hero, TT.) (Even Kelly Holcomb was able to put up a couple 300yd games & a 400 yd game. You mean to tell me TT couldn't get there at least one time in regulation?)

These are all good points. If only the Bills had another "deep threat" on the roster back in 2016. Marquise Goodwin: 2016 - 68tgts 29rec 431yds 14.9yds/rec 3TDs 28.7yds/gm 42.6catch% (Tyrod Taylor) 2017 - 105tgts 56rec 962yds 17.2yds/rec 2TDs 60.1yds/gm 53.3catch% (Beathard/Hoyer/Garappolo)

What do you mean? He had a winning record and led the Jets to the playoffs. Around here, that qualifies a QB for the Hall of Fame for some people.

How can anyone say this? The kid looked like he had a basic level of competence at the position in his limited preseason exposure and mop-up time after Tyrod threw up all over his shoes against the Saints. He was by no means "great", but there was enough there to say "let's see". To say "clearly" is absolutely incorrect. Tyrod's sub, sub-par performances this season forced McD to make a change. The odds that Peterman would be any worse than 56 yards passing in an NFL game were slim. Now, it unfortunately didn't work out that way. Also, let's not forget the kid did a very admirable job against the Colts in an epic blizzard.

I'm glad you asked! Let's say you're a defensive coordinator. A good game from Tyrod is roughly 220 yds passing & 40 yds rushing, 1 TD passing & 1 TD rushing. So, total production is 260 yards of offense and 2 TDs for Tyrod when he's firing on all cylinders. You would take that 10 times out of 10 vs a QB that is capable of 300 yds in just passing yards and 3 passing TDs, right? Trying to move the ball on the ground is an inefficient way to play offense now. When people say "Tyrod is so dangerous with his legs", it really doesn't mean anything. His ceiling of just under 300 yards of total offense in a game is really not all that dangerous to anyone other than the Dolphins, when you really look at it. He can't put up points quickly. He can't bring teams back from being behind at nearly any point in a game. Because running the ball doesn't allow for an offense to do that. Yes, if the defense can hold the opponent to 10 or 13 points, Taylor can probably manage to put together 20-24 points if everything goes right -- including a turnover or two that puts the Bills already in FG range. That's why there is a HUGE difference in QBs making plays through the air vs scrambling around.

Unfortunately, this universal truth is dying a very quick and painful death.

I'm honored to be included in such a prestigious group. I only jumped in once Scotty reached into his pocket for the ol' race card. That's actually what really fired me up about the whole Tyrod thing months ago in the first place. To accuse someone who is critical of Taylor's performance/production of harboring racist views is blatantly dishonest & beyond unacceptable. It's not like TT was winning 12 games a year & regularly dropping 325 and 4 TDs on defenses. He regularly struggled to hit 200 yard passing in a game. His production & overall performance -- regardless of external circumstances -- were typical of a mid-to-high tier backup-caliber QB. He's no where close to being in the top 15 or 20 starting NFL QBs. It's not racist to take an objective look at the numbers & come to that conclusion. What IS racist is to lower the bar & hold TT to a lesser standard because he is a Black QB. I have far too much respect for the guy as a professional & as a person to do that.

So, again let's clarify your point for the kids in the back: It's only on this website that QBs are judged on passing yards -- by definition a measure of their ability to produce offense by throwing the ball. No where else in football do people judge QBs by considering a numerical measurement of their production when throwing the football. Great point there. You are really doing a fantastic job. I couldn't really care less about JG. I was showing you that TT isn't even close to a guy who was traded mid-season to a team with comparable receivers. No training camp, no preseason. Just a couple of practices and he was already miles ahead of our three-year starter at his best. CJ Beathard, a rookie & Brian Hoyer, a career backup also posted better production with their no-name WRs than ol' no-turnover Tyrod. For example, Hoyer had a game of 29/46 for 353 yds, 2 TDs and 0 INTs. As a rookie, Beathard already hit the "Tyrodian Ceiling" by going 19/25 for 288, 2 TDs and 1 INT. Those guys are punchlines but are still better at playing QB than TT. Moving on... 1. He makes plays with his legs because he is not good at reading defenses and making plays with his arm -- you know, the two things that QBs are primarily responsible for doing. 2. For all those "sustained drives", they sure did punt A LOT. TT is beyond overrated.

Oh, so now TT is no longer "GREAT" but simply "good" at throwing the deep ball. I'll take that as progress. "Their WRs were trash" is one of my favorite #teamtyrod excuses. Let's take a look at what Jimmy Garappolo & CJ Beathard (a rookie) had to work with in SF, shall we? Marquise Goodwin George Kittle Trent Taylor Aldrick Robinson Pierre Garcon for 8 games and some dude named Louis Murphy. JG, CJB, and Brian Freaking Hoyer had a TOP 10 passing offense with that group of WRs & TEs. They were 1100 passing yards ahead of the Bills, who were comfortably in 31st. Tyrod was in his 3rd year as a starter and still couldn't get out of the NFL passing basement. You are correct though, he is very, very far from "great"... but he is much, much closer to "bad". In fact, he's practically sitting right next to it.

You said in an earlier post: " the guy was GREAT at the deep passing game" So, to clarify: You are claiming that that the Bills had a GREAT deep passing game with Tyrod Taylor, even though it didn't produce yards or points. Makes sense. Also, the "300 yard game" is far from the "ultimate gold standard". It's a metric of basic competence at the QB position. No one was expecting Taylor to be Kurt Warner, but when more than half of your games are under 200 yards passing... Tyrod Taylor Buffalo Bills 2015-2017 Passing Yards 43 games under 300 - 97.7% 38 games under 280 - 86.3% 30 games under 230 - 68.1% 23 games under 200 - 52.2% 16 games under 180 - 36.3% 7 games under 130 - 15.9% Passing TDs Games with 3 passing TDs: 6 - 13.6% Games with 2 passing TDs: 7 - 15.9% Games with 1 passing TD: 19 - 43.1% Games with 0 passing TD: 12 - 27.2% 31 games with 1 or 0 passing TDs - 70.4% 38 games with 2 or fewer passing TDs - 86.3% 13 games with 2 or more passing TDs - 29.5% Man... those are some "GREAT" numbers. Face it. The guy sucked as a QB. One of the most overrated players in Bills history.

Yes! Tyrod was great -- I remember all of the zero 300 yard passing games he had lighting fools up with that "deep passing game".

I openly admit that I was disappointed and HATED the pick Thursday night. I am slowly coming around on it now and truly hope that this kid makes me look like a giant a**h*le.