Zerovoltz

Let me try and seaparte Watkins from his contract and talk about the two separately. The contract is HORRIBLE. KC paid out WR 1 money for the guy KNOWING he would be the 4th option, 3rd option at best on this team. That's just not smart use of resources. The player has been...OK. He's hurt too much for the money...but when he's played he's been allright...had a few big games. IF ....IF he were the no.1 option he'd put up some strong numbers...probably not worth the contract even in that scenario...but he's been ok. If Hill were to miss time Watkins would probably look more valuable to us than he has thus far. I haven't seen enough to justify the contract..and frankly, we could have saved that money and spent it elsewhere and signed someone else much cheaper this past off season...in hindsight...I would have liked for us to have kept Albert Wilson (he blew out his ACL so maybe it's better we didn't) ....Anyhow...not worth the money on Watkins....he has been, more or less what people said he is....an intriquing prospect that is hurt often and needs volume to have maximum impact. He hasn't broken any big plays. Our Defense .....is interesting in that we are at or very near the top of the NFL in sacks. Two very good edge rushers in Ford and Houston and a very good D Tackle in Chris Jones. You'd think that having this kind of talent up front would mask some problems elsewhere..but it hasn't. Having watched every KC game...we may well have the worst ILB pairing in the NFL. Reggie Ragland looked decent his first year here..he SUCKS. ....and maybe he needs to be in a different scheme where he just goes downhill all the time, but in our scheme the ILB are asked to read and react. Ragland needs to have no responsibilities in coverage at all and just go....even when he gets moving off the snap...he is easily blocked and can't shed. A bust. We signed Anthony Hitchens from the Cowboys for big Money in the offseason....unlike Ragland..Hitchens looked pretty good in Dallas last year....but playing in this read and react system...he also SUCKS. He is asked to read and then cover RB and TE...and he isn't good at it...he was a good sideline to sideline defender in Dallas and the reports were he wasn't good at coverage there either....just a really good pursuit player. .....because he has to read the play and often cover someone, on run plays..he is slow to identify and thus slow to move...and gets swallowed up by O lineman. His Contract is AWFUL and the way it's structured, we are stuck with him for 2 more seasons. They did draft Dorian O'Daniel from Clemson, and when he has played ILB..he HAS looked pretty good...good in coverage...quicker to react and has shown some ability to shed blockers...but they are reluctant to play him...he should be starting. Ragland should be benched. The secondary ins't very good. Orlando Scandrick is old, but has been ok....dropped what would have been the game clinching INT vs the Rams...just flat out dropped it...right in his hands. Steven Nelson is ok. Our safties are OLD and SLOW. Been waiting on Eric Berry to come back all year...he MIGHT finaly play this week...they need him. Because of the sacks and turnovers...and the D is OK to live with even if the numbers in yards and points don't always look good..they do produce big plays.

I said it already..but yeah....I don't have high hopes about this....the Chiefs made a low risk, low money investment in a guy who at one time, a long time ago, showed a little....fine...we paid out some pennies to kick the tires...I read this board all the time and have read ALL the stuff you find folks have posted about Benjamin..and I have watch a few of the games....(ever since the Trade and the drafting of Allen, I can't get enough of watching the Bills....love the passion of the fan base here...and am glad to be on this board..great place to talk football) ......I think KC sees this as SUPER cheap depth....and anything else would be gravy....contract just for the rest of this year....I'm not hoping for or expecting much.

i agree with you....this isn't exciting news to me....due in large part to me following this board...I might be the best informed KC fan about this guy. SO MANY KC fans see a name they know and instantly "LETS SIGN HIM, HES A BEAST! (on a side note, the tendancy of the lower IQ among my Chiefs fan base, LOVE the term Beast. ugh.) ....KC fan base has a hard time separating Madden from real life (this goes for salary cap issues as well...SIGN EVERYONE! TRADE FOR EVERYONE!) Yav....not sure you have any sort of credibility with your incredibly horrible Pat Mahomes predictions and takes.

A simple glance at Case Keenums numbers this year tell enough of the story....or go watch some of their games...Minnesota was right to let him walk. He's not been good at all this year. .....He has targets and a good run game....Emmanual Sanders is pro bowl caliber WR...The traded Demarryous Thomas, but the Rookie Sutton has impressed...and they have a very strong running game....that offense isn't void of talent. Sanders just tore his ACL in practice yestarday, so he's done....and they did claim Holmes, the other WR you released. Again..as far as Benjamin playing TE....and you telling me he can't (and I believe you) ....well, again, great...our second string TE also can't play TE...so if Benjamin has step into that role, he'll fit right in.

Even though we have beaten Denver twice this year already...they have really played us tight...they are a touch matchup for us...they also did have held the Rams to low totals on offense and nearly beat them...they beat the Chargers....Denver has a below average QB holding back the rest of that team. As far as Benjamin being a TE, our current back up TE, Demetrious Harris...already can't block and never plays as big has his size either...he's been here 4 years already and hasn't progressed....If Benjamin sucks...that's fine..he sucks and will have cost us next to nothing....if Harris were to get hurt...well...we appear to have his crappy identical twin on the roster now.

This is the only reason for KC to sign him if we did it to "help" our own team. KC is thin at TE after Kelce. They may well have done this to keep him from Denver as well. Watkins is apparently currently healthy so this signing, if it's about Watson at all, wasn't about Watson this week. Frankly, a good many KC fans are overly happy about this signing and think we are getting the guy who excelled in Carolina, and not the hot mess he's been in Buffalo this year. If he works hard here and makes a contribution here and NOT in Denver, then I'm good with it....but really not a big deal in my opinion. Best Case is that he moves to TE and does well, makes himself into a nice thick tall red zone target....worst case...he sits on the bench and does nothing....not costing us much...and he isn't in Denver.

I don't suppose this head to head comparison of each of these guys 1st 2 NFL seasons means anything to anyone here. I threw in Vick because unlike the other QB on this list, Allen is a weapon as a runner, and his running stats thus far are practically equal to Vick in his first 2 NFL seasons. It is remarkable that Vick and Allen also have nearly the same completions and attempts on a per game basis through a similar number of games at this point in their careers. Would you be happy if Allen had a VICK like career? Per Game Passing Rushing Rk Player From To Cmp Att Yds TD Int Sk Yds Att Yds TD 1 Josh Allen 2018 2018 12.6 23.9 152.9 0.6 0.9 2.9 22.6 7.1 48.6 0.5 2 Jim Kelly* 1986 1987 19.1 32.1 228.3 1.5 1.0 2.5 20.3 2.5 11.9 0.0 3 J.P. Losman 2004 2005 8.9 17.9 105.5 0.6 0.7 2.1 15.2 2.5 13.0 0.0 4 EJ Manuel 2013 2017 11.4 19.7 125.6 0.7 0.5 1.6 9.9 3.2 11.3 0.1 5 Michael Vick 2001 2002 12.2 23.2 161.8 0.8 0.5 2.3 13.9 6.3 46.3 0.

These same variables apply to every QB do they not? If we can’t apply any measurable metrics to a qb then what can we apply?

What numbers would you like to use to measure his progress as a passer and how much time do you think is enough to see results?

I’m giving those guys as examples of prospects who “just needed to be more accurate”. Allen is an incredible prospect. More gifted than those guys. The comparison is that NFL people and fans thought it was just a matter of more time more reps and more coaching and the accuracy, passing efficiency, was going to happen, like a forgone conclusion. most of the fans on this board speak of Allen exactly this same way. More time more reps and better supporting cast has been the failing formula to improve accuracy for decades. Many here seem to think success is right around the corner.

.....the argument that The difference between Allen being a 60% thrower and a 55% thrower is 1.5 passes completed if he attempts 30 passes. This is is mathematically correct but you can apply this to every QB. Somehow others manage to consistently complete at a higher pct despite also having to throw a ball away, have the receiver drop the pass etc. quarterbacks not not named Josh Allen have higher completion pct with the same group. my point remains. Allen is an incredible prospect with lots of gifts and talent and he has a very substantial set of data to look at that suggests he isn’t accurate and that it is far from a given he ever will be. My point isn’t that I think Allen is awful or that I think he can’t improve or that given better supporting cast improvement can’t happen. It is not a given. Another example of a guy with a great arm, gifts etc was Kyle Boler. A guy coaches thought wasn’t accurate due to supporting cast at college and who they could coach up and surround with talent and fix him. There are a lot of Kyle Bolers. Accuracy, efficiency whatever you want to call it... but it is HARD to teach. Making quick reads, and then the proper pass don’t tend to be things that can be improved much of at all by coaching or better players around. ive said in many other threads here that given his incredible natural gifts and his football upbringing he is worthwhile. I can buy the argument that he was a farm kid that never was coached up as a kid, as a high school player or in college.... its not a given and if Allen does develop into a legit franchise QB he will have beaten long odds and the Bills leadership will deserve to be praised as geniuses.

This is fair. Clearly I am not doing a good job of making my argument. The Tebow comparison I tried to make wasn’t about Allen and Tebow being the same guy, but was an attempt to make my original and only point here wich is that Accuracy way more often than not, doesn’t just happen, many very good prospects, with good coaching often fail to improve this vital skill. My whole point is that many many posters here, when talking about Allen, are dismissive of his lack of accuracy and explain it away like it’s simply a matter of time and is bound to happen. If there were several past cases I’d this happening then it would be something to be assumed and dismissive about. The past suggests that in fact accuracy is very difficult to improve and for a good many humans, is something you are born with or not. I am not taking anything away from the raw prospect he is. He is a tremendous prospect. I would be excited at this point if I were a bulls fan to see if he can get better because he shows so much of what you want a QB to be. That said it is not a given he’ll ever be consistently accurate enough to be a franchise type QB and any analysis that involves just assuming some linear improvement. The accuracy is is a concern and a problem. It was on draft day and it still is.

I agree Allen goes downfield more often than many QB do....and having watched Alex Smith for years...I agree, high completion PCT isn't the be all end all for accuracy. Smith comleted a TON of short easy passes. Accuracy is more than completion PCT....as stated by others here. .....So, even given all this....isn't it worth asking then, if you KNOW Allen can only complete "X" pct of deeper passes and you believe he'd complete more if you called a screen or slant or two...wouldn't someone in all this time, figured out that it was worthwhile to call a short pass for the guy here and there? .....what good does it do to throw it farther downfield if you don't complete those? Certainly he doesn't connect often enough to justify doing it as much as he does....he doesn't throw TD's at a high enough rate to justify it....he has a high turnover rate that might go down....wouldn't it be optimal to have him throw shorter more often?

Why did the two QB under Coach Bohl, who were before Allen have signifigantly higher completion pcts?

.....so that kind of leads me back to my point to begin with...if Allen is destined to be accurate...why wasn't anyone able to fix him in HS? in JUCO? At Wyoming (where he had the same coaches as Carson Wentz) ? It's not just going to suddenly happen....and I don't know how you make it happen or what coach you need etc..or maybe the right cast....If it were easy, if were bound to happen....it would happen a lot more often than it does for other talented athletes...like a Vick etc etc.

I agree....it has happend...it can happen...but it isn't typical...it isn't usual...the numbers were all over the place at draft time about college QB who had poor accuracy in college almost never improved much or at all in the pros. From what I have seen...and what I have read...Allen is every bit the guy the scouting reports said...and he has a LONG way to go to be consistanly accurate. ...that doesn't mean I am saying he sucks...it doesn't mean I am saying he isn't worth developing....quite the opposite...I'm just saying that improving accuracy is HARD TO DO and that it doesn't just happen because over time the switch just goes on....we'll know when he strings 4 games or better of 60% plus if he's getting there or not.

I absolutely do! I agree....very very very RAW....he's supposed to take time. You guys are all arguing at me like I am telling you it can't happen. I HOPE IT DOES! .....I am pointing out that a good many of you folks here speak about Allens accuracy issue like it will just get better as time passes...as he has more reps...if his supporting cast is better...ETC ETC.....when I bring up Tebow...I do so to demonstrate that everything they ever tried to fix his accuracy never worked...he got reps, he got coaching, he had a good supporting cast and a good defense....I am rooting for Allen to do it....I think the task at hand is DIFFICULT. Improving accuracy is hard...and big improvements from college to pros are not typical. My gripe, my point is that MANY posters kind of just write it off like it's bound to be better as he gets more reps, time passes, etc....it is not inevitable...it will be Allen overcoming the the odds, and beating back conventional wisdom IF he gets better......A lot of rookie QB's come in and struggle...but a good many of them had demonstrated accuracy in College....Baker Mayfiled had a horrible day today...he was a 71% thrower in college...it is reasonable to expect he;ll be accurate in the pros....he has demonstrated accuracy over a long period of time...it is reasonable to expect he will develop into an accurate NFL QB (that doesn't mean he will, but he's shown accuracy and shown that he has progressed in being more accurate as time passed)

IF Tebow were accurate he would be a star.....that's the thing that bothers me...No one could make Tebow more accurate...he didn't have it in him...and he had Baby Hoodie coaching him. Improving accuracy is not a given...it's much more likely that it doesn't improve.....If you could take a guy whose problem is accuracy and fix it....then guys like Lamar Jackson and Mike Vick would have been all time greats.

Let me try this AGAIN. I like ALLEN. I am amused, intrigued...what have you....that so many of you are quick to look at Allens accuracy is some minor detail that just needs cleaned up. My point is that accuracy is a MAJOR component of a QB's game...perhaps the most important part. I hope he does. I harbor no ill will toward teh Bills, the players, the fans etc. I think I were a Bills fan, I would be very cautiously optimistic about Allen....because of the accuracy and not just casually throwing out statements like "with a little more time, his accuracy will be better" If he just had a few better pieces, his accuaracy will be better....etc.

No. My name is gary. I am not magic.

Of course you do! Cam is a career 60 PCT passer thus far ....although having an above career year in that stat so far this season. .....if you get ALLEN to 60, 61, 62...You will have WON that draft pick. (also assuing the INTS are limited to something reasonable) He isn't there yet...and 60 would be a remarkable improvement over his college numbers....

Both big build, good runners, charismatic, winners, scouting reports concered about accuracy at pro level. Completion PCT, TD's INTS, comparable...Allen better comp % by a little bit...but Tebow more TD and less INTS ....still pretty close. Both had very good defenses to help them. Allen certainly has the better raw arm.

No...they would appear to have quite a bit in common at this point. What is an acceptable completion PCT for Allen?

Its not unreasonable. Which part of that comparison doesn't match up in your opinion?

I think some of you are taking my comments the wrong way. I'm not saying Allen is bad etc...I like the guy...he is fun to watch. All I am taking issue with is that many on this board use phrases like "he just needs to fix his accuracy" and he's a star. ....It's almost like it's a forgone conclusion here that Allen is going to improve his accuracy because it's a matter of just doing it.....I think that is A LOT to assume.....it's the whole reason he wasn't some Andrew Luck type prospect....you can't just wish it away. I hope he does improve....He's an intriguing prospect....a great gamble by the Bills to see if in fact the accuracy can be increased...