SoTier

NFL QBs still have to play in the cold, especially in the playoffs.

I think that people in general -- not just people today or just people in the US -- have this inclination to assume that somebody who excels in some field or endeavor is virtuous in his/her private life. We tend to forget that physical ability or scientific skill and understanding or artistic or literary talent or political acumen doesn't necessarily translate into a person's character/personality.

It may very well be that the Cheetah unconsciously picks those kinds of women, too. Some people are attracted to individuals who are really poison for them. They gravitate towards people who abuse them or cheat on them or gamble or drink to excess or are mentally unstable etc while ignoring people who treat them decently, don't have vices and/or are mentally stable. They can't seem to help themselves.

At first they'll be ecstatic, but maybe in the future not so much. Half of all QBs drafted in the first round are disappointments if not outright busts. Moreover, the last USC QB to become a successful NFL QB was 20 plus years ago despite the fact that probably more USC QBs have been drafted at the top of the first round than any other school. 2018 - #3 - Sam Darnold 2009 - #5 - Mark Sanchez 2006 - #10 - Matt Leinart 2003 - #1 - Carson Palmer PS: other USC QBs haven't been outstanding since 2003 either: 2016 Cody Kessler 4th round 2013 Matt Barkley 3rd round 2008 John David Booty 5th round 2005 Matt Cassel 7th round

When I heard that the Stillers traded for Fields, I thought that they had acquired another QB who would fit whatever offense they were planning in Pittsburgh. Wilson's success in Seattle was always anchored by a stout defense, a strong running game, and a quick-strike passing game. The Stillers have the stout defense and the strong running game. They need Wilson to give them that nice long ball he had with Seattle as well as the good decisions and leadership that made him a starter as a rookie. I think that Wilson's decision-making and leadership will likely give him the edge over Fields for this coming season. From what I've seen of Fields, he's physically very much like Wilson in his prime, so I think that Pittsburgh is thinking/hoping that working with Wilson and better coaching will enable Fields to become significantly better. I disagreed with your post because "flailing" implies trying and failing, but IMO the Bills weren't really trying to win football games. I don't believe that Bills were seriously interested in winning football games after Bill Polian was fired. With the departure of John Butler and AJ Smith for San Diego, the Bills entered "The Drought" because Ralph Wilson increasingly put profits ahead of winning football games. That didn't change until after the Pegulas became the owners.

If a team doesn't find itself a franchise QB -- somebody on the level of Flacco or Cousins in their prime or a Tua or Purdy -- they have virtually no shot at anything beyond maybe backing into a wildcard berth and being 1 and done. Statistically, about half of the QBs taken in the first round of any draft fail to become franchise QBs despite being given every opportunity (sometimes multiple ones) to do so. For QBs taken on Day 2 or 3 of the draft, the chances are miniscule. Finding a franchise QB is finding the proverbial needle in a haystack, which is why teams like the Browns and Broncos mortgaged their futures to grab "proven" ones. The Stillers have grabbed a "proven" QB as well as a young QB who has shown some flashes for practically nothing in terms of what other teams have spent to acquire one of either type. It may not work out but if it doesn't, they aren't shackled by their gambles. I always liked Russell Wilson, so I hope that you are right. I would like to see Russ take the Stillers (my second favorite team) to the AFC Conference Championship game only to lose to the Bills in January.

Truth. Look at the Jests ... it's been about a quarter of a century since they hit on a decent franchise QB in the first round (or any round) with Chad Pennington taken #18 in 2000 (the same draft that produced Mike Vick and Tom Brady) who couldn't stay healthy ... and about 60 years since they drafted a first round QB who was a bonafide franchise QB (Joe Namath) ... and their current QB is 40-years-old and thinking about running for VP!

If the Bills didn't have Allen, they would have lots more cap space, wouldn't they?

What is there to LOL about? They don't have a good enough position in the draft to get a top QB, and they don't have enough draft capital to move up. They signed a FA QB who was once considered a shoo-in for the HOF on a cheap, prove-it deal, and then they traded a next-to-nothing to get a former first round QB who seems to have at least the potential to be a decent NFL starter, which their former starting QB lacked. They've improve their QB situation significantly with hardly any impact to their cap space. Exactly. I think it's a brilliant solution to the situation that the Steelers found themselves in when it became apparent that Pickett, like about half of QBs drafted in the first round, wasn't starter material.

I'm assuming that you mean the Bills have only used 1 first round draft pick on a WR. That's a fair criticism. For myself, I'm not particularly interested on where the Bills get their weapons nor am I particularly attached to official positions. IMO, you have to consider both RB James Cook (2022 2nd round) and TE Dalton Kincaid (2023 1st round) as serious weapons in Allen's arsenal. I do think that the Bills need to add a fast WR to stretch the field, something that the Bills haven't had recently, so I would like to see them draft a WR in the first or second round, especially because this WR class is so deep.

Gary Puckett was the lead singer of the Union Gap.

Here's a write up on Joseph-Day plus 3 other defensive players from an Eagles' site: 4 Free Agents Joseph-Day seems a worthwhile pick up since the Bills use a DL rotation.

Criticism that's based on reality is valid, but much of the criticism of Beane/McDermott recently hasn't been based on facts but rather on posters' untrue perceptions or ignorance. Check out the thread on the Mack Hollins signing for criticism that descended into crucification of Beane based on a single poster's ignorance, but there have been plenty of others. I wasn't aiming at you when I originally posted in this thread, but your criticism of Beane in the bolded sentence above is both unfair and disingenuous -- and certainly unworthy of criticism. While it is technically true that Beane hasn't drafted a WR in rounds 1 or 2, he did use a first round draft pick to acquire Stephon Diggs. ^^^ Oh, you guys mean like ... Collecting draft capital and doing due diligence so that the Bills could not only move up in the 2018 draft to take a QB but to take the right QB? Hiring Brian Daboll and then adding Ken Dorsey to develop Josh Allen into a generational QB talent? Trading for Stephon Diggs? Drafting Terrel Bernard in 2022 to replace Tremaine Edmunds? Trading for Rasul Douglas at the trade deadline because he knew that he wasn't going to keep White in 2024?

Isn't it ironic that you felt compelled to start this thread to push your hate for Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott while the Bills were finalizing the deal for Curtis Samuel? I guess the Bills aren't going to bed early on this FA period. IIRC, Beane & Company keep busy throughout the preseason and during the season (hello, Rasul Douglas!) Winner, winner! Chicken dinner! I don't get the hatred for Beane, either. At worse, he's the second best GM the Bills have ever had, and since he's still actively managing the Bills, he may surpass Bill Polian by winning a Super Bowl. His drafting has been excellent despite the whining of his detractors. He wheeled and dealed to move up in the draft to grab Josh Allen, a generational talent at QB. He pulled off the trade to give Allen his WR1, Stephon Diggs. None of his first round picks have been busts, although a couple haven't been quite good enough. Even among his 2nd round picks, I think only two, Cody Ford and Boogie Basham, have been outright busts. Compare that to the drafting records of other GMs around the NFL in recent years. What I like best is that Beane, though, is his forward thinking; he's not making making moves willy-nilly but prepares for future moves, and keeps his options open. He always has a plan or he comes up with a good one on the fly if necessary. He had Terrel Bernard ready to replace Tremaine Edmunds in 2023. He traded for Rasul Douglas to replace the injured Tre White whom he knew in October, 2023 he wasn't going to keep for 2024. Beane's detractors keep pushing the image that Beane doesn't know what he's doing but reality says that the Bills GM has his proverbial ducks all in a proverbial row.

Interior OLers (OGs and Cs) just don't get paid as much as OTs, especially LTs, so salary comparisons between the two OL groups are irrelevant. I do agree, though, that having an elite C is not a necessity for a good offense, but then neither is simply having an elite LT. A good, even an excellent, OL doesn't necessarily need to have any elite players if all of the players are good or very good, fit the blocking schemes that team uses, and work well together because good OLs frequently are better than the sum of their individual parts.

If Gabe Davis would continue to play for 4th-round rookie pay, he'd still on the Bills. He signed a contract with the Jags for about $50 million for 3 years. I really like Davis, but he's not a good enough WR to be worth that even if there wasn't a cap. You still haven't provided the name of a single "better" WR who would also play ST for about the cost of Hollins or Sherfield/Harty. FTR, I was a junior high teacher prior to going into IT where I spent 30 years designing and programming computer systems for educational and social services organizations, so I have lots of experience dealing with snot-nosed kids who think that they can bluff their way through their ignorance, whether in a classroom or production meeting, or online.

In one of my previous lives as a teacher, I'd give you a 0 on this essay answer because you failed to answer the question posed, which was to actually name some available WRs. Maybe that's how it works in Madden but not in real life, dude. Hollins' value is that he's a good STer who plays gunner, a position that every team with playoff expectations needs to fill with a competent player not just some random body. That he may be able to catch some passes is a bonus.

What "impact" WRs would you suggest for the money the Bills have to spend???? Keep in mind that the Bills have to have STers, and not all "impact" players are interested in playing ST even if they are willing to take less money to play for a contender.

You might want to fact check your statements before you post them in the future. All of the Bills' first round picks started as rookies: Tre White - started all 16 games as a rookie Josh Allen - started 11 games as a rookie Tremaine Edmunds - started all 15 games he played as a rookie Ed Oliver - started 7 games as a rookie Greg Rosseau - started all 17 games as a rookie Kaiir Elam - started 6 games as a rookie Dalton Kincaid - started 11 games as a rookie Moreover, these 2nd rounders started as rookies: Dion Dawkins - started 11 games as a rookie Cody Ford - started 15 games as a rookie A.J. Epenesa - started 1 game as a rookie O'Cyrus Torrence - started all 17 games as a rookie Here are the other rookies who have started for the Bills as rookies: Spencer Brown - started 10 games as a rookie (3rd rounder) Devin Singletary - started 8 games as a rookie (3rd rounder) Taron Johnson - started 2 games as a rookie (4th rounder) Matt Milano - started 5 games as a rookie (5th rounder) Christian Benford - started 5 games as a rookie (6th rounder)

I suppose you'd swap him for Russ Brandon, Beane's predecessor/boss. Brandon was the head honcho of the Bills for 11 full seasons, 2006-2017. His teams never had cap problems even though they signed such big name FAs as Mario Williams and Terrell Owens, but those teams only had 2 winning seasons and 1 playoff loss. I'll take missing the playoffs once in 7 seasons and "boring" FA signings any day ... but especially on Sunday ... and Thursday, Saturday, and Monday.

Not so much social class as economic class. People who can afford the best lawyers almost always get a lesser sentence than people convicted of the same crime who have to depend upon a public defender. Money talks.

I would far prefer the Bills to go WR, DL or C/OG if there's a top rated prospect available at #28 before they take another TE. Kincaid, Knox and Morris are a pretty good trio of young TEs. Don't mess with what's not broke, especially when there are real holes elsewhere.

I've been a Bills fan since 1963. Except for the great Bills AFC teams in 1964 and 1965, the Bills have NEVER been league champs. Between 1967 and 1987 -- 21 seasons -- the Bills made the playoffs only 3 times -- in 1974 under Lou Saban and in both 1980 and 1981 under Chuck Knox. After only missing the playoffs twice between 1988 and 1999 under Marv Levy and Wade Phillips, the Bills then managed to flounder for the next 17 zstraight seasons without making the playoffs. FTR, that's 13 playoff seasons in 50 seasons. Let me tell all the complainers about the Bills not yet winning a Super Bowl, that winning football games is infinitely better than losing. Making the playoffs is infinitely better than not making them. Winning the division is better than making the playoffs via the wild card. Being a serious contender for the Super Bowl is infinitely better than being irrelevant to playoff discussions. I desperately want to see the Bills win a Super Bowl before I die, but if it doesn't happen, as long as the team (ie, ownership and FO) continues to make winning football games their first priority -- which wasn't always the case, especially in the 1970s and in the 2000s until 2018 -- then I'm good with the team.

Maybe but not that likely. Of the 32 QBs drafted in the first round since 2012, only 5 have become bonafide franchise QBs, and only 12 have become have become at least "quality NFL starters". I think that the 2021 QB class isn't unusually poor ... for all the hype that teams put into drafting a first round franchise QB, they miss more often than than they hit. Numerous draft classes have had no first round QBs become at least "quality NFL starters". A few times QBs drafted outside the first round turn out to be better than the first rounders. The most successful of the QBs from 2012, for example, are 3rd rounder Russell Wilson and 4th rounder Kirk Cousins, with an honorable mention to super-sub Nick Foles. First round QBs since 2012 (10 draft classes) ... 2012 Andrew Luck (1), Robert Griffin (2), Ryan Tannehill (8), Brandon Weeden (22) 2013 EJ Manuel (16) 2014 Blake Bortles (3), Johnny Manziel (22), Teddy Bridgewater (32) 2015 Jameis Winston (1), Marcus Mariota (2) 2016 Jared Goff (1), Carson Wentz (2), Paxton Lynch (26) 2017 Mitch Trubisky (2), Patrick Mahomes (10), Deshaun Watson (12) 2018 Baker Mayfield (1), Sam Darnold (3), Josh Allen (7), Josh Rosen (10), Lamar Jackson (32) 2019 Kyler Murray (1), Daniel Jones (6), Dwayne Haskins (15) 2020 Joe Burrow (1), Tua Tagovailoa (5), Justin Herbert (6), Jordan Love (26) 2021 Trevor Lawrence (1), Zach Wilson (2), Trey Lance (3), Justin Fields (11), Mac Jones (15) Of the 32 first round QBs drafted that have had time to prove themselves, I rated 5 as actual franchise QBs Andrew Luck (career cut short by injury) Patrick Mahomes Josh Allen Lamar Jackson Joe Burrow ... and 7 QBs that are/were quality starters are ... Ryan Tannehill Jared Goff Baker Mayfield Kyler Murray Tua Tagovailoa Justin Herbert Trevor Lawrence. I also considered 3 QBs that might eventually be at least quality starters and maybe more ... Deshaun Watson (injuries and off-field issues) Jordan Love Justin Fields. All the rest were lower caliber starters for a while or subs if they managed to avoid being busts who failed to stay in the league beyond their first contracts.

I'm in total agreement with both these posters! I sure do miss the days of watching Antoine Winfield, Sr, Willis McGahee, Jason Peters, Marshawn Lynch, Stephon Gilmore, Robert Woods, Jabari Greer and numerous other players the Bills developed helping their new teams win playoff games and Super Bowls while the Bills' seasons were finished by Thanksgiving and fans turned their attention to dreams of FA coups and finding future stars in the draft ... year after year after year after year ... The current Bills are always going to have to work hard to improve their team from year to year because they currently have such a good team anchored by a true franchise QB plus a quality OL and top defense. There aren't going to be many if any big name FA signings. There aren't likely to be any top five or top ten draft picks, either. It's going to be relatively small changes or finding special talents in the draft after all the big name picks are off the board. Deal with it.