SoTier

Good teams are good not just because they have a good/great QB. They're good because they not only have talented rosters, but they also have good/great coaches who get the most out of the talent they have available. Are you really a Bills fan? You certainly have a low opinion of them. Only a single team -- the Panthers -- had fewer than 4 wins in 2023 and only 3 teams had 4 wins. In 2023, these teams that lost their starting QBs averaged 8.2 wins. Half of these teams won more games than they lost and one had double digit wins and made the playoffs. The Browns lost Watson but still won 11 games. The Bengals lost Burrow but still won 9 games. The Colts lost Richardson but still won 9 games. The Jests lost Rodgers but still won 7 games. The Vikings lost Cousins but still won 7 games. The Giants lost Jones but still won 6 games.

All four of those QBs were considered likely to go in the top ten. In fact, Rodgers was expected to go #1 overall in 2005. I think that QBs that aren't/weren't considered likely to go at the top half of the first round and who were drafted in the second half of the first round are those I'd consider "lesser QBs": Lamar Jackson (2018), Paxton Lynch (2016), Johnny Manziel (2014), Teddy Bridgewater (2014), EJ Manuel (2013), Brandon Weeden (2012), Tim Tebow (2010), Joe Flacco (2009), Brady Quinn (2007), Jason Campbell (2005), and JP Losman (2004). Only Flacco and Jackson have become successful NFL starters. Bridgewater had a decent career. In the 2024 draft, the four QBs talked about as likely to go at the top of first round are Williams, Daniels, Maye and McCarthy.

Divisional games are always wars, especially for the divisional doormats. When the Raiders finally beat the Chiefs in KC a few years ago, they drove their team buses around the stadium jeering all the way. Sweeping divisional rivals is exceptionally hard. Losing your starting QB is almost always a disaster but good FOs can sometimes mitigate the problem. When the Vikings lost Cousins, they traded for Joshua Dobbs. When the Browns lost Watson, they brought in Flacco -- and they made the playoffs. IMO, the Jests FO just gave up when Rodgers went down and Wilson quickly demonstrated he wasn't a NFL QB. That's a loser's attitude.

Don't worry too much. The Jests haven't hit on a QB in 2 decades (Chad Pennington, 2000), and they've only hit on 2 QBs in the draft in 60 years (Namath). It's not that they haven't tried: Mark Sanchez (#5) in 2009, Sam Darnold (#3) in 2018, Zach Wilson (#2) in 2021. Chicago, Washington, and NE all need QBs, so I doubt they'll trade out of the top three spots. The Giants may take a QB at #6. That leaves the Jests to go for one of the lesser QBs -- or trade up to get ahead of the Giants for the fourth best QB in the draft. Pay back is a you-know-what!!!! Then again, I have to thank them for their sacrifice!

One of the great groups of the early 1960s ... the Drifters (1962) and how different popular music sounded just a few years later ... the Byrds (1967)

Building a winning team takes more than simply assembling a group of talented players. Neither the Jests' FO nor their coaching staff have shown they can turn a bunch of guys, even talented guys, into an effective team, especially on offense. They also haven't shown that they can handle adversity well as last season demonstrated. I will remain skeptical that they can even win more games than they lose until they actual do it. The Jests have the stink of perpetual loser about them, and that's always a sign that the problems with the franchise are much further up the team food chain than the players on the field.

^^^ I will address both these posts below: The Jests FO with help from their coaches have again built a great team on paper but we all know that the Jests are the champs of winning the off-season. They've built a roster filled with lots of expensive, older, often injured players that makes it absolutely necessary for them to make a serious playoff run in 2024 because not only are they're operating in "win now" mode, but because the owner is likely to fire their collective arses if they fail to make the playoffs again. Salah simply hasn't shown that he's a good enough HC to even get his team to the playoffs much less win in the post-season. The AFC remains significantly tougher than the NFC, so just getting to the playoffs will be hard. In the AFCE, the Jets likely have to get past the Bills and/or Fins to grab a playoff berth. It's likely that multiple AFCN teams make the playoffs again (three made the playoffs last season, including 1 with a backup QB and the other with a pretty poor starting QB). Moreover, several of the moves the Jests made last season, most notably signing Rodgers' buddies and then failing to sign an adequate back QB after Rodgers' injury, suggests that there's dysfunction and/or incompetence in the FO. I got the impression that essentially everyone on the Jests bent over backwards to accommodate Rodgers. Maybe this wasn't their choice but a dictate from owner Woody Johnson. IMO, the chances of the Jests making the playoffs is south of 50% because they are depending upon a HC who hasn't demonstrated much growth after several years in the job and so many older players with injury histories to make it through the entire season unscathed.

I think it depends upon the specific player they draft -- and the priorities of the FO that led them to make that trade. It's easy for fans to say, "we have to draft a QB in this draft!" but that's not always possible. It was a big-time fail when the Bills determined they were going to take a QB in the first round of the 204 draft, so they traded their 2005 first rounder plus a second rounder and another pick to move back into the first to take JP Losman at #22 after taking Lee Evans at #13 when the top three prospects in that draft class (Manning, Rivers, and Roethlisberger) were gone by pick #11. If a QB isn't a good value to take at #13 why ever would you trade so much to take him 9 picks later? It was also a fail in 2013 when the Bills traded back to take EJ Manuel because he wasn't really a first round prospect at all -- none of the QBs in the 2013 class were -- but the Bills took him anyway. Drafting a QB in the first round -- and having him play early -- is a sure way to excite fans into buying tickets, especially if the team has missed the playoffs for several years. The top priority of the Bills FO during Ralph Wilson's last years was to maximize profits by putting butts in the seats. It sure wasn't a fail for the Bills to trade up to #7 in 2018 to take Josh Allen. I doubt that they would have made that move up to draft any of the other QBs in the 2018 draft because McBeane's top priority has always been to win football games, and they wanted Allen. Would they have settled for one of the other first round QBs in 2018 if Allen was gone earlier? I'm really not sure.

The difference between Pittsburgh and Washington and/or the Giants is that the Stillers have an elite defense, an excellent running game, and a solid OL and decent receivers. IOW, they're a much better team than either the Commanders or Giants. In fact, the Stillers have the same kind of team that Wilson had during his successful seasons with the Seahawks.

Asking that question means that you are just another one of the lemmings who think that maybe, just maybe, Beane and McDermott actually might know what they're doing. Watching Russ Brandon trade away All Pro LT Jason Peters and replacing him with waiver-wire refugees in 2009 convinced me of the importance of having a solid OL. I think it was 2 or 3 years before the Bills got around to even drafting an actual LT. Prioritizing need over talent sets up a team for failure. A team like the Bills has to make its high draft picks count because the draft is the best place to find the difference makers they need. If there's a WR and/or DE as well as a C on the board that the Bills have graded as first round talents, they should take the one they think is likely to become a stud. If there's a first round C on the board but none of the WRs or DEs left are close to his quality, it's a no-brainer to take the C. Maurkise Pouncey went to the Stillers at #18 in 2010. Nine times Pro Bowler, 2 time All Pro. He retired after the 2020 season. The only season he failed to make the Pro Bowl was the season he suffered a season-ending injury in the opening game of the season. He came back the next season to be selected All Pro a second time.

I'm in! I've already advocated drafting a center at #28 in a couple of other threads. Even if there's not a run on WRs, the fact is a great center will help Allen more than a good WR, and you're more likely to get a great IOLer than a great WR at #28

I haven't watched a lot of Fields, but I think he has a skill set reminiscent of Russ in his prime, so they can both work in the same type of offense. My guess is that Russ will start the season with Fields as his backup. If he can't recreate the form he had in Seattle, then Fields will get his shot. Even if Russ excels and Fields doesn't see much playing time, I think that the Stillers may re-sign Fields for the future if he looks good in practice.

I picked Thanksgiving or Black Friday because I think they've done pretty well on Thanksgiving. Allen and the Bills made the NFL pay attention to them in 2019 when they smacked the Cowboys around 26-15 on Thanksgiving Day.

I disagreed with you because it's not "insane" to wait until somebody is actually convicted before penalizing him/her. Even perverts have rights.

Most people don't like change. The NFL traditionally has only played on Christmas when it fell on the weekend or Monday. Christmas coming on Wednesday has just magnified the change in NFL policy to play games on Christmas. Obviously, it's too much change for some people.

The NFL is a business, that's it's purpose. The ratings were so high for last year's Christmas game that Christmas Day games were inevitably going to become a fixture on whatever day Christmas falls on.

I hope he can make a great comeback!

I'm sure it's not a 50-year-old VW bus conversion.

The NBA has been scheduling games on Christmas for decades. The NFL scheduling games on Christmas is only "different" because you obviously aren't an NBA junkie.

I would definitely return it. I've had more PCs, lap tops, work stations etc over the years than I can count, and have never have one "pop". I doubt it's an "undocumented feature".

I find it interesting that many of the same individuals arguing for failed first round QBs to get second or even third chances are so fast to dismiss Levis after his rookie campaign, even though he played better as a rookie than numerous first round QBs in the last few years.

Name one NFL HC, current or since the merger, who ever said anything but "it's hard to win in the NFL". McDermott may be defensive-minded and rather conservative but he coaches to win football games. Jauron coached to not lose football games by too much. He was "risk adverse" to the max. If you think that Dick Jauron has been "crucified", during his tenure 1) you were too young or too far away geographically to watch the Bills often or 2) you never watched the Bills while sober or 3) you are suffering from serious memory loss. I was a Bills season tix holder during part of Jauron's tenure, so I had an "up close and personal" seat to his incompetence.

Absolutely agree. At the Bills' talent level, they need players who will make significant impact even as rookies. MHJ, Nabers and Odunze are the guys most likely to be studs from the get-go. They are significantly better than the rest of a very deep WR class where potential good WRs are likely to be available even in the second round. If a team can't move up high enough to get one of the very top guys, what's the point of spending next year's first when sitting tight or trading up only a couple of spots can yield a WR of about the same caliber of any other WR they could get at #17 or #18?

Woody doesn't want to admit that drafting Wilson was a mistake like drafting Darnold in 2018, Sanchez in 2009 and then giving him an extension, and signing Favre in 2008. People might begin to think that he's the problem with the Jests since he's been the owner since 2000 with a succession of GMs.

What exactly does "take the next step" look like to you? Fire the coaching staff? Sign some big name defensive or offensive player(s)? Trade all their draft picks to move up to #4 or #5 in the draft to take Marvin Harrison, Jr???? Instead of just whining, actually make some suggestions. Realistically, Beane had/has limited options in significantly improving the team because of the cap. Every team paying a franchise QB shares those limitations to varying degrees. They are going to lose some good players every season, and they're not going to be able to sign many big name talents in their stead. It's a balancing act and a hope that all goes well. The Chiefs, for example, chose to resign Chris Jones and trade away L'Jarius Sneed for very little compensation. It looks like a reasonable move now but what if Jones suffers a season-ending injury in September, and the Chiefs' D struggles to stop teams, especially in the red zone? Excellent post. I like posters who provide some reasons for their stands rather than simply complaining or praising. Depending upon how the draft falls out, I would not be opposed to the Bills taking one of the two centers projected as first rounders at #28 or even higher if they feel they need to move up to get one, but I'm always in favor of BPA because the Bills need difference makers not just "good" players in order to improve. A lights-out C can help Allen more than a "pretty good" outside WR who probably can be had in the 2nd round in this deep WR draft. If one of the highly rated defensive players falls or the Bills move up to get one, I'm good with that, too. I think Beane has filled the gaping holes in FA with an eye to drafting BPA in the first round in order to get a potential stud regardless of positon.