ChiGoose

When you’re born is also when the GOP stops considering you a person.

You’re right. I totally forgot that the Senate GOP scuttled their own bill. They’re even bigger cowards than I usually think of them.

It’s just projection on their part. Most everything is emotionally tinged on the right because if they came right out and said “we want to take your money and what you work for and give it to millionaires and billionaires,” people wouldn’t vote for it. So they stoke a culture war to scare hard-working Americans into supporting their corporate masters.

Don’t forget that conservatives seem incapable or unwilling of considering second and third order effects. Imagine if abortion was banned completely in the US. You would see a black market of unregulated and likely very unsafe abortion options available to the desperate. Now imagine you or someone you love is pregnant. Everything is going well but then suddenly, it’s a miscarriage. How does the doctor know that it wasn’t the result of a back alley abortion? How does law enforcement know? The only way is to investigate. Better yet, they can follow in the steps of Missouri and use data from things like period tracking apps to keep tabs on women of child bearing age. A surveillance state for women. What about someone who is pregnant but is diagnosed with cancer? Well, if their life isn’t immediately in danger, they’ll be given no choice but to let the cancer grow until it’s life threatening instead having the option to choose their future. The world in which they get their way is a totalitarian nightmare but they don’t believe or understand it because they still can’t grasp simple second order effects like fetal personhood requiring banning IVF.

The senate passed a border bill. It was basically written by a conservative and it’s sitting on Mike Johnson’s desk. If Johnson puts the bill on the floor, it will pass and it will help the border. Which is why he won’t put it on the floor. There are always a million reasons to say “no.” Part of being a responsible legislator is finding a way to “yes” through compromise. But compromise is anathema to the MAGA wing of the GOP, ensuring that they get basically nothing done. And that’s even if they do actually support addressing the root causes of abortion. Which they don’t, so it’s all moot anyway. The idea that “everyone wants these” is, frankly, naive.

I wish you were correct, but the GOP tends to oppose expanding healthcare, increasing access to contraceptives, and affordable childcare. There are signs however, that they are rethinking their opposition to parental leave. It would be smart for them to revisit these policies. Dobbs is incredibly unpopular with the average American. If the GOP were open to these things, Speaker Johnson could put them on the House floor and force Dems to choose to support their stated policies or keep the issue alive for the election (not unlike how the GOP went back on their proposed border deal.

Well, if you ask Dems if they want to make having kids more affordable and provide better opportunities and support to people with financial difficulties while ensuring that people can get prenatal care, good parental leave, and affordable childcare, they’d probable all be on board. Do you think the GOP would?

If the people who claim to oppose abortion really wanted to reduce abortions without harming women, they’d address the root causes of abortions. But they never do (and often oppose proven effective methods) so it’s hard to believe them when they say that’s their goal.

If you’re implying that the natural consequence of outlawing abortion is punishing women and doctors, I agree. In fact, the natural consequence of fetal personhood (which is gaining popularity on the right) is banning IVF and prosecuting women who have abortions and their doctors for first degree murder. I just happen to agree with the majority of Americans that those laws are stupid and warrant fighting against.

Hey buddy, you can be having a miscarriage while there is still a “heartbeat.” That’s the problem with these stupid laws. If the pregnancy is nonviable or the mother is experiencing miscarriage symptoms but there is still a fetal “heartbeat,” by law they need to wait until the life of the mother is in danger. It’s really dumb and illogical, but that’s why it’s a GOP policy. Read like, literally any story about this coming out of Texas.

The changes the right is so upset about: “The Mifepristone REMS Program was modified on January 3, 2023. Under the Mifepristone REMS Program: Mifepristone must be prescribed by a health care provider that meets certain qualifications and is certified under the Mifepristone REMS Program. In order to become certified to prescribe mifepristone, health care providers must complete a Prescriber Agreement Form. The Patient Agreement Form must be reviewed with and signed by the patient and the health care provider, and the risks of the mifepristone treatment regimen must be fully explained to the patient before mifepristone is prescribed. The patient must be provided with a copy of the Patient Agreement Form and mifepristone Medication Guide (FDA-approved information for patients). Mifepristone may only be dispensed by or under the supervision of a certified prescriber, or by a certified pharmacy on a prescription issued by a certified prescriber. To become certified to dispense mifepristone, pharmacies must complete a Pharmacy Agreement Form. Certified pharmacies must be able to ship mifepristone using a shipping service that provides tracking information. Certified pharmacies must ensure mifepristone is dispensed to the patient in a timely manner.” (FDA)

If you have an opinion, state it. If you want to say “mifepristone should be banned because reasons x, y, and z,” then say so. Don’t play stupid guessing games that waste everyone’s time. It’s childish. My opinion: mifepristone should not be banned because it has been proven to be safe and effective.

What a dumb question. Every drug has side effects. Mifepristone is safer than Tylenol. Should we ban Tylenol?

Nah man, just laughing at you. So simple, so naive. Like a precious little cinnamon bun.

Asks a bunch of questions, spits a bunch of nonsense, misses the point, is completely unable to address the actual issues. “Do My FaCtS tRiGgEr YoU?”

ItS a StAte IsSuE. wE wIlL vOtE tO hArM wOmEn BeCaUsE dEmOcRaCy. I aM a SeRiOuS pErSoN.

“Oh hey, these laws are poorly written and are having disastrous consequences.” ItS a StAtE iSsUe. I aM sMaRt

I see Tommy Eyerolls has gotten his marching orders.

Discharge paperwork when my wife had to be treated for miscarriages: “Spontaneous Abortion” Discharge paperwork when my wife thought she was having a miscarriage (but thankfully wasn’t): “Threatened Abortion” Basically every hospital looking at these laws: “life of the mother” means we are potentially liable if we terminate a pregnancy with a “heartbeat” (even if it’s nonviable) when the mother’s life is not at risk. Basically every lawyer looking at these laws: “life of the mother” means you are potentially liable if you terminate a pregnancy with a “heartbeat” (even if it’s nonviable) when the mother’s life is not at risk. MAGA: “nuh uh. Everyone is wrong except me, facts and logic be damned.”

I see that the usual crowd has gotten their talking points ready

They cannot, under any circumstances, say that anything is ever good if a Dem is president.

Remember that for almost a year, there wasn’t a big concern from the government. They found out Trump had the docs and they asked for them back. Trump wrongfully claimed that they were all his, but the government simply continued to negotiate with him to return the documents. Eventually, Trump told the government he’d return the documents. He gave them several boxes of documents and his lawyer signed a letter stating that these were all of the documents. Had that been it, Trump would have been fine. For all of the problems of walking away with the documents and refusing to return them, the government just wanted to get them back. As far as I can remember, the whole thing was still being handled by NARA at this point, not federal law enforcement. However, the government then learned that Trump had lied. He had removed documents prior to his lawyer examining all of the boxes, causing his lawyer to falsely claim they had returned everything. He had also told his staff to tamper with the security cameras for the room that housed the documents. It was only at this point that the government decided to take real action, referring the case to the DoJ which then executed a search warrant and later indicted Trump. If you want to argue that the controls and laws around the handling of sensitive documents by electeds are broken and need fixing, I’m 100% with you. But it is simply false to paint Trump’s situation as him being treated differently. They gave him every opportunity to avoid trouble (opportunities that everyone else in his shoes gladly took) and he decided to obstruct instead. Also, I’m no “true believer.” I don’t like Hillary, I didn’t vote for her in 2016 (voted for Gary Johnson). I didn’t want Biden to be the Dem nominee in 2020 and I certainly didn’t want him to be the nominee in 2024. I’m just trying to explain what’s going on with these cases.

I don’t expect people to understand all of the legal ins and outs so I’m happy to explain it. But after some point the ignorance goes from understandable to willful.

I’m saying that if a former elected has government docs in their possession, they do not get charged if they cooperate and turn them over when asked. Like it or not, that’s just how it works. If you actually read Hur’s report, the evidence they could use to charge Biden for willful possession was a single comment he made. In all of the tapes with his ghostwriter, he never again mentioned them, none of the information ended up in the book. The documents were not even found in the house he was in when he made the comment (and they were in a “badly damaged box surrounded by household detritus”), and he had been out of office for barely a month (while in office, he was permitted to keep such files at his home). No jury would convict on that fact pattern. If the Trump case had the same facts, Trump wouldn’t have been charged because there would be no likelihood of a conviction. He got charged because, unlike Biden or Pence, Trump obstructed the investigation and lied to the Feds. That’s certainly enough to be able to prove intent to a jury. The thing that has the right so made is that they mistakenly believe the cases are the same and Trump is being treated differently. They are not because Trump ensured his indictment by his own actions after the documents were discovered by the Feds.

I’m not ignoring it. Like I said, electeds get away with a lot around this stuff, likely because the laws were written with the millions of public and private sector employees in mind, not former elected officials. Had Trump taken the documents and forgotten about them and they were discovered years later, he still wouldn’t get charged *unless* he refused to return them when asked. That’s the difference. It remains the difference. All of this other nonsense is just to deflect from the fact that it was Trump’s actions *after* he was asked to return them that got him charged.