ChiGoose

Buddy, Trump forced their hand. He stole sensitive materials from the government, refused to return them, and then obstructed the investigation. If he had just done what Pence, Biden, or literally anyone else would have done, he wouldn’t be in trouble.

Good. Anyone who takes government property and then obstructs the investigation into their actions should face consequences.

Maybe, just maybe, if he wasn’t constantly doing shady and potentially illegal things, they wouldn’t have been investigating him. If you don’t want the government to investigate you, I recommend the following: -Do NOT ask a foreign country to help you in an election -Do NOT surround yourself with shady people who do things like share campaign polling data with foreign spies or meet secretly with foreign agents to attempt to set up a backchannel that the US government won’t know about, or meet with foreign agents in the hopes of getting info you can use against your opponent. -If you fail to do the above and the government starts looking into you, do NOT obstruct the investigation -Do NOT use campaign resources to pay for the silence from women you cheated on your wife with -Do NOT set up a PAC in a way that appears to be wire fraud to defraud your own supporters -Do NOT tell a Secretary of State to falsify the vote count in an election -Do NOT take government property when you leave your government job -Failing the previous, do NOT hide the fact that you have stolen government property; notify authorities instead -If the government asks for its property back, do NOT refuse to provide it. -Do NOT send the government documents with a letter that it’s all the documents when it’s actually not -Do NOT have people access the documents on camera (!?) when told to keep them under lock -Do NOT sue the government to try to keep stolen property -Do NOT obstruct the investigation into the property you stole I would recommend following the above advice if you want to avoid being constantly investigated.

Nope. The difference is Trump not only refused to cooperate but actively obstructed. Had he just turned over all of the docs when asked, he’d be fine. Even if he took the documents intentionally, they likely wouldn’t be able to prove it, so if he just handed everything over, it’d all likely go away. But he’s a narcissistic moron so he created this mess for himself instead.

Yup, turns out that when you possess government property, refuse to return it when notified, and then obstruct the government’s attempts to get it back, you might get charged with a crime.

The government asked for its property back and Trump refused to return it. He then lied about returning it. That’s how. If he had just cooperated from the start, he probably avoids all of this.

Yeah, we saw the losers all storm the capitol on Jan 6

Yeah man. It’s so unfortunate that people who admit to breaking the law get in trouble for breaking the law. How unfair!

I check several what? What exactly do I check?

Projecting much?

It’s honestly really hard to imagine having such an apparently sad and pathetic existence that you would spend a ton of time tagging people on an internet message board day after day and then bragging about how you had blocked the people you tagged. Sad!

Find yourself someone who thinks about you half as much as @BillsFanNC thinks about the liberals on this board. Hard to imagine he has time for anything else!

100% agree. The process for moving out officials with clearances is clearly broken and needs fixing.

You are correct about Pence being the professional here. Pence’s situation is basically the best case scenario if there is accidental spillage. There is no evidence that he was aware of the documents; the moment he learned about them he contacted authorities; he cooperated fully with the investigation. There’s no scenario in which someone in his position gets charged. Biden’s case is close to Pence’s, but there were documents in places where it seems less likely that Biden didn’t know about them than with Pence. So even though he alerted authorities and is cooperating, that investigation is likely still going on so they can figure out who knew what, and if there is something going on that warrants a charge. I’d doubt Biden catches a charge based on what we know now, but that may change as the investigation continues and if they uncover more evidence. Trump… did everything he possibly could wrong. He admitted to taking them but refused to return them and then he obstructed the investigation. He continues to dig himself deeper and deeper into a hole and is actually putting his own attorneys into jeopardy at this point. There’s clearly a problem with securing government documents that needs reform, but there are important distinctions between the cases of these three individuals.

Classic strawman. I’ve explained over and over and over and over and over and over why Trump’s case is different. Take a look at the laws cited in the search warrant and apply the known facts to them. Think about what can be proven in a court of law. That’s your answer.

That’s certainly a bad fact for Biden.

Still can’t stop thinking about me? 🥰🥰🥰

People keep asking why Biden isn’t in trouble while Trump is. That’s what I’m explaining. Trump could have avoided all of these problems if he acted like Biden or Pence. He didn’t, and now he is reaping what he sowed.

I’m merely stating facts here, sorry if it doesn’t fit your worldview. Federal prosecutors do not bring charges unless they believe they will win the case. The law requires intent by the charged individual. Biden’s defense will be that the Vice President doesn’t pack up his own office and he hadn’t opened those boxes or saw the documents since they were moved. The Feds would need evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that this wasn’t true. Such evidence could include: 1. Government documents in Biden’s personal desk drawer mixed in with items from after he left office; or 2. A letter from Biden’s attorneys saying that he had the documents but will not be returning them; or 3. Testimony from those close to Biden with personal knowledge that he talked about having the documents and/or showed them to others; or 4. Biden himself publicly talking or bragging about still having the documents; or 5. Surveillance footage of people taking documents from those boxes with testimony from those individuals that they were ordered to do so by Biden Any of those would help convince a jury that Biden knew about the documents and didn’t turn them in. So far, you seem to be implying that Vice Presidents gain a new sense where they can detect documents nearby. I just don’t think that’s going to fly with even the most conservative jury.

I’m telling you that you would need more than that to convict. His defense will be that he never opened the boxes. Do you have proof that he did?

The statutes in question generally require actual intention. While you may be able to justify a charge under gross negligence, you’d be very unlikely to succeed, or even survive a motion to dismiss.

No, but if you can’t prove it, it’s difficult to enact consequences.

No, I care what the facts show. If Biden knew he had them and was using them, he should be indicted.

Fun fact: none of the statutes that the search warrant was issued under even mention classification. Even if he declassified them, it wouldn’t matter because he has no right to possess them. You’re being lied to and eating it up because it makes you feel good.

What argument are you going to make in a court of law that convinces a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that Joe Biden himself personally intended to take the documents? Remember, mere possession isn’t enough. His defense will be that he didn’t personally pack the boxes, didn’t know the docs were in there, and when he discovered them, he immediately notified authorities and cooperated fully. Additionally, his defense attorney would seek to admit into evidence the information about Pence’s documents to underscore that there is a problem with security around these documents and spillage is more common that we would think.