Rochesterfan

Of course to get that - Virgil eliminated Walker the higher rated RB because that is who the Bills picked in mock draft 1.0. It would have been interesting to see if either RB had been the choice or would people have chosen something else since both RBs were there.

False. He dropped or muffed several kicks last year after being hit - we just did not lose it. He had at least 2 returns where he got hit and the ball ended up bouncing out of bounds including 1 in the playoffs. He also muffed a kick in the field of play that luckily was ruled a muff and the ball was forced out of the end zone by I believe Kumerow. That resulted in a touchback - but could easily have been a turnover and those do not end up in his official counts. He easily put the ball on the ground at least 6 times on returns last season and was a limited returner for only the first part of the season.

I think the Bills staff knew it was an issue in Denver. It was an issue here after the Bills picked him up in year 1 (after cutting Ray Ray McCloud because of his difficulties handling kicks). Also reading training camp notes - it was an issue in training camp with dropped kicks and mis judgement of the ball. Then there were fumbles lost and additional balls on the ground that slide out of bounds - so the Bills pulled the plug.

Yes he had 3 fumbles on nearly 140 returns - a fumble rate of about 2%. On that number of returns at his rate - McKenzie would of had 11 fumbles. The difference is the Bills pulled him and benched him early - when the pattern re-emerged. As an aside - with limited returns - a 2-3 % fumble loss rate is about normal for returns (1-3 per year) and an 8% rate on kick-offs means you need to replace that guy. His Punt return average was not horrible - although I believe he had 2 balls on punt returns that he fumbled along the sidelines out of bounds during the season and a third in the playoffs that slide out of bounds. Those were not lost.

Actually it goes against having an elite RB. The winners had guys like Fournette (cut and a FA), I believe Sony Michel in LA - another guy that was moved from his drafted team. Damien Williams an UDFA on his 2nd team. Philadelphia had multiple very average backs. Not one 1st round RB on his original team leading the team to victory. What it shows is that you can get a RB anywhere be it FA, trade, UDFA and as long as they and the OLine can give you a touch of balance - you have a shot. What you do not need is to draft a RB in the 1st or 2nd round and expect it to make you a sudden Super Bowl contender.

Yes 2 on 24 kick returns - so a rate of over 8% of kick off returns he fumbled last year. You combine that with his 6 fumbles as a rookie and 4 more the next year - almost all on special teams and perhaps there is an issue. It was an issue that cost him his job in Denver and got him benched with miscues last year. I would much prefer to let him focus on being a WR and find someone else that can handle the special teams aspect with fewer issues.

I don’t think he gets a real shot unless something changes. He has some talent as a punt returner, but he was frankly bad at Kickoffs with multiple fumbles including a time he was not even hit. A few bursts that were huge, but the mistakes were way more costly. He also let to many punts and even kick offs hit the ground without getting to them. I did not want to see him returning kicks last year and he did little to make me say - we gotta put this guy back there again. Rather see a battle with a draft pick and Stevenson and if the Rookie wins - Stevenson maybe looking at a PS position because Stevenson was not impressive either - especially as a punt returner.

I really like Chenal, but I am not sure he fits what the Bills want. He definitely fits what the fans want - the down hill attacking LB, but the Bills are more interested in deep coverage and off ball play and that is 100% against his instincts.

I still wish you had put Walker on the list. One because he is on most boards the #1 RB and that would really blow several posters mind if he was chosen over Hall with both on the board. Two - the 2 RBs might have split the RB vote and allowed the picking of a real player at 57. This draft is sort of how I have seen other mocks play out with both running backs making it to the 3rd round. I have been able to pick up Hall several times as a late 3rd round pick.

I disagree after listening to Sal and Beane talked. Beane recognizes that the Bills are going to be hard pressed to get UDFAs to fill out the roster. He told Sal last year - part of moving back was specifically to draft additional players because a drafted player is bound to come to help fill the roster. The Bills struggled last year with UDFAs - getting a very limited supply. I understand you logic, but Beane basically told Sal they need the extra picks to fill the 90 man roster - they may lose a couple, but they have limited choices to get guys they want here. I think they will move around, but in the end - I think they end of with 8+ draft picks and will still struggle to fill the roster to 90. They will be about 18 short after the draft - even with 8 guys and they will get like 6-8 UDFAs based upon last year and the talent level on the roster - meaning they will be a good 10 players short. If they trade down to 5 picks - you are 13 or so short - it becomes difficult to pick up that many legitimate players to fill a roster. It is going to be an interesting draft.

Since he has been drafted - he has been outplayed by UDFAs and low level FA signings. The Chiefs went with McKinnon over CEH in the playoffs just last year and Williams in the regular season. CEH is a back-up level RB that everyone screamed was going to make the Chiefs unstoppable (sound familiar). The RBs do not get enough touches because the ball should be in the hands of Mahomes. I will be interested this year with the loss of Hill and the fact that the o-line is a better run blocking than pass blocking unit - do the Chiefs forgo the explosive offense and become a more run first team and what impact dos that have on a guy that wants to force throws. You ask a player like Mahomes or Allen to be patient for to long and they begin to hold the ball and take shots when given the chance.

Or it comes on that morning and you think you have 30 miles and you know you are heading to the airport to drop it off and there is no reason to stop to stop. Then because it is not your car - you find out the hard way that you really only had 20 miles and you run out within sight of the airport. If he really ran out of gas - it should not change anything in what happened - he obviously thought he could make it and it did not happen - it is not the first time - it was just the most tragic time. It does not make him cheap or ignorant or even at fault - these things happen everyday - to people of every race, background, and financial level - His just ended in a tragic way after wards and I really feel for him and his family.

I could see something like that - my only problem with that is if they move to 7 - I think it is for Stingly or Hamilton and therefore I am not sure Bradberry and Edmonds are the deal. I could really see that play out if Poyer replaced Edmunds in that trade case to give us Bradberry and then draft Hamilton. I don’t see a LB worthy of that high a pick and if they move up for Stingly - I don’t think they want Bradberry in return. It is very difficult scenario to play out.

That is complete BS. Mahomes and Josh both showed the most effective way to handle a 2 high safety look is to be patient and use the open WRs and TEs that are short and wide to stretch the coverage. It can also involve a RB/FB in the passing game as they used Singletary in quick passes. The difference was in YPR - as the RBs did not get as many yards as the receivers and therefore were less effective at moving the chains. The one thing we have seen is that an effective running game does not necessarily force a team out of playing 2 high safeties because they would prefer to see you have to slowly move the ball and see if you get impatient. They then pack in more near the goal line and try to hold you to 3. There is not a team in this league that would not love to see the Bills run the ball more and will do everything to invite that as much as possible. Elite RBs have not been a difference to any SB winners in a long time. The RBs of teams in the SB have been cast offs and low value guys - that can get you yards, but only need very limited touches.

This issue is so complicated and I don’t think there is a good way to prove any of it short of a trade. Edmunds has a significant number of Pros - as pointed out by @Alphadawg7 and would be a fine addition to many teams. Edmunds also has a number of deficiencies as pointed out by @NewEra and with his current contract it makes it very hard to get any value in a trade. I think the truth lies someplace down the middle - with his current contract and his deficiencies he is worth less as a trade - especially if that trade is being initiated by the Bills. Probably someplace in the mid 2nd - early 4th depending on what else gets thrown in. The problem becomes who and what would move him. I could see a scenario where the Bills and Giants use a few players and picks to rearrange needs for the year. Players like Edmunds and/or Poyer to NYG with Bradberry coming back - some adjustment in picks following suit and allowing both teams to fill the holes created. Balance the money and position to help each team going forward. I just do not see a scenario where we see a trade for true value because the Bills are not giving up their Defensive Leaders this year without already having replacements in place that can handle the role.

There is no proof they wanted Eteniene. The people covering the Bills said he was never really in play for the Bills and they never looked to move up. DE was the want for the Bills. In addition the team that drafted him - moved him to WR not RB. Before the injury they exclusively practiced him at Slot and outside WR. He was not Thurman - he was their version of McKenzie.

Yes for a small FA deal - they weren’t giving him a big FA contract. He was another low level addition - a little more than they gave Duke Johnson.

I agree - I do not think they attach the value to CB #2 that some others do, but at least at CB - they have drafted a 1st round talent. They have also paid big money to retain White and Johnson and have spent higher level money on FA additions - none of which they have done at RB. Beane has even said - he would not pass on RB if the right player, fit, and value was there and I believe that - the question is where do those line up compared to other positions.

Yes - I don’t Hall is worth a 1st or 2nd round pick in Buffalo’s scheme and I think some team will talk themselves into taking him early because he fits their scheme better. I think around RD 3 he becomes more talent than scheme fit and becomes more worth it for a team like the Bills.

The Bills run a small board with no more than around 100 people to cover the entire draft. They have guys you listed - probably 10-15 on their list - if those guys are all gone - they will see what dropped, but they would be looking to move out. Beane has been very clear that guys are in buckets and you do not overdraft because things fall - their plans will change, but the worst thing they can do is reach for a Roger McCreary that has a 2nd round grade and pick him in rd #1 - first come the expectations that he will not be able to achieve, then comes the overpayment for less value. It is a bad situation- see Shaq Lawson. If their guys are gone - someone has dropped - in this case it is DE, DT, OT, and even LB that some other team will most likely want. The board obviously views WR and CB as the biggest needs and are picking guys at need over talent. And to be clear - I don’t think McDuffie, Gardner, or Davis are on their board. I think they are eyeing Stingly, Booth, and Hall - maybe Gordon and Cine at DB along with Hamilton. I think they have a couple of Offensive lineman that are projected in that area. I think they have several WRs that are grouped up - most notably Williams, Wilson, and Olave - I am not sure how they feel about some others, but I am not sure a slot guy like Dotson makes their list. I think they prefer to move to round 2 with Watson, Pickens, Moore, and I believe Burks as better fits. Look - I am not trying to get after you - it is just after the top 8 or so players - we are picking the same positions and guys that are not in the same profile as others and we are bypassing higher talent at higher end positions that just should not happen because people want CB and WR. It is whatever - I just think at this point the most of the new people being added are not even getting a sniff at 25, but because they are a WR and a CB not because they are best players or guys we will pick at 25. That is a me issue at this point.

Yeah - look at what they have invested in RB. A couple of 3rd round picks and picking up low level FAs for next to no money. Elite RB must be sky high on his list. The Bills have done nothing as Sal points out to suggest anything other than a mid level RB is what they are looking for. They have not drafted RB high, they have not gone after a high end FA RB. Everything has been that they view RB as a replacement level commodity and place a higher priority on many other positions. Not that they wouldn’t draft a RB high, but he would need to be so far superior to everything else at the same point.

Not spite - a poorly worded question. My guess is 100% of the board would be ecstatic about drafting Hall in round 7, but what does that mean. Do I want Hall on this team - sure for the right value and absolutely not for the wrong value. Both answers can be correct based upon your question.

Nope - I will vote no. He is not worth an early pick - so I would rather not have him than draft him early.

I will not vote because the answer is yes I would love to draft Hall - I have done it in several simulations - typically it is round 4, but occasionally as high as round 3 and once as at the very end of round 2 after some trade backs. I would not want Hall if he was drafted prior to pick 55. That is the needed option. Go look at how he has done in the big board thread - where he is not even top 15 and 2nd round WRs and CBs are going ahead of him.

That he started.