BillsFan4

I don't see it that way at all. I think that's a false moral equivalence. White supremacy is not = to BLM. The way I see it - A leader of white supremacists (and nazi sympathizer) who identifies with what that group represents (including that the white race is superior to minorities, that they don't deserve all the same rights whites do, that we need a "peaceful ethnic cleansing" & that wants to create an all white homeland (to name just a few things)) is not equivalent to someone who believes that black lives matter as much as white lives do, openly welcomes those of different races into their group and thinks that everyone should be treated equal. I do not agree with everything BLM says or condone every action they take but their guiding principles are much different than those of a hate group like the white supremacists. Not exactly sure what you mean by BLM set up residence in the White House, but if you mean Obama then I totally disagree. Also, I had no idea what you talking about when you said he "vowed to make citizens pay as deep a price as possible". So I looked it up. It took me a while to find anything. The only thing I really came across was something on Brietbart (the poster child of fake news) and a couple similar sites, that they called "shutdown theatre". They referrred to the 2013 govt shutdown and then proceeded to twist words and distort the truth. I'm not even going to bother trying to argue against it if that's what your referring to. I'll just say that I don't agree and I don't really see how congress failing to pass legislation to keep non essential government functions running, mainly because republicans attached a very polarizing and very partisan piece of legislation to it, is Obama's fault anyway. And I honestly don't understand how you can view Obama as the most divisive president of your lifetime. Even if you were only born the day Obama took office that still wouldn't be true. lol We obviously see most things completely differently Tasker and grin reaper. I acknowledge your opinions, but I know I'll never sway them so I'll just respectfully end this conversation.

I agree. I like the way Obama handled things much better. He invited 2 heads from the BLM movement to the White House to meet with a range of law enforcement officials and community leaders to learn more about their movement and so both sides could learn more about the different challenges each side was facing, and try to begin to discuss solutions. Thats not Trump's style though. He'd rather pour gas on the dying embers and reignite the fire. I don't think he gives a rat's arse about what these players are protesting either. This whole thing has definitely become counter productive though. IMO The players need to pick s new way to protest because kneeling during the anthem gives people a built in excuse to get angry and not listen. But even when Thr Browns decided not to kneel and instead show a video before (or was it after?) the anthem, a lot of the same people still got mad, so... Having an honest and civil discussion where both sides were actually truly open to what the other was saying would be a much better approach/method, but I don't see that happening.

I didn't say it was gone completely, just that it was more or less dying out. One player kneeled during that game, and one raised their fist. So, 2 players total. http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/249755/nfl-players-who-protested-during-the-national-anthem-in-week-3 (bottom of the page)

Many seem to think that system does still discriminate against people based on their race, though. That's a large part of what some of these players are protesting. I am really pretty tired out on that whole debate though, so I'll just leave it there. I do agree with much of what you're saying about equality though.

I agree, it's concerning. But Juan Castillo is the run game coordinator, and McDermott has said in interviews that Castillo is the one who puts the run game plan together. So maybe it's not on Dennison (if it does continue to be an issue) is all I'm saying.

Here is what the NFL players are currently doing and trying to do, if you're interested. We are not allowed to paste large sections of articles so I will just provide the link. It is a letter that was written by the NFL players commission and sent to the league. It outlines the basis of what they are currently doing to bring about change in their communities as well as a call to action. It's really a pretty interesting read - https://sports.yahoo.com/memo-4-players-sent-nfl-commissioner-roger-goodell-030818178.html

I don't believe in the bogeyman. lol I know. But that doesn't mean they automatically are given the same treatment. It has gotten much better than where we were just over 50 years ago when segregation was still legal, but we still have a long way to go. Huh? Are you mad that the protest has evolved from being mainly about police shootings? Be mad at Trump. Kneeling had more/less died out around the NFL until he opened his big mouth and purposely said some very inflammatory comments. He has to know this is exactly what would happen. Too bad he wasn't willing to willfully condemn the white supremacists and nazi sympathizers in Charlottesville in the same way. It took him days of being shamed into it to condemn them and then he pretty much immediately walked back his remarks condemning them.

Yes. I read the entire article. I get what you are saying, and I somewhat agree. They weren't illegally keeping kids out, but that judge also ruled that they weren't doing enough to desegregate either. But judge still did have to force them to combine school districts to finally desegregate. He said no more excuses. Before that the school was 99.7% black (or whatever the exact # was). I know what you're saying though and I do somewhat agree. I get that it wasn't against the law for those kids to go to each other's schools. Maybe it wasn't the best example... It's not an example of people fleeing poor neighborhoods though, because those people never lived in that neighborhood to begin with. I don't know why you assume the black neighborhood must be poor. Like the article said, white people live in on one side of the tracks and black people on the other. They've never lived together. The white people didn't want their kids going to school in the black schools because they didn't feel those schools provided the same level of education to their kids. To me, this is one of the points of the article - "The delay in segregation has deprived generations of students of the constitutionally-guaranteed right of an integrated education," Judge Debra Brown wrote. "Although no court order can right these wrongs, it is the duty of the District to ensure that not one more student suffers under this burden." And also that this has been going on for 50 years. The court has been trying to get them to desegregate. In just the 1980's, according to the courts, they built school districts designed to keep the schools segregated and they assigned faculty based on race - "But Cleveland agreed to allow black students into white schools, and vice versa. However, the federal government later alleged that the district established "dual residency" policies to cheat and send students to schools based on their race instead of their neighborhood. The district also built new schools in locations designed to keep black students in all-black schools, the U.S. said in a motion in the '80s, and assigned faculty based on race." Also, there was also more to my post than the thing you focused on. My overall point is that racial discrimination is a fight that has been going on for a long time and still continues to this day. That it only ended barely over 50 years ago and even then the laws to enforce it had no teeth. It wasn't until the years that followed that those laws were given the power to be truly enforced. That fight still continues to this day. We aren't that far separated from those days and many were brought up,in environments where it was normal to discriminate.

Because they hate inequality, they hate everything great in this country? Sorry, but inequality is not what makes this country great. What has made this country great and continues to do so to this day are the people who have fought and changed the problems in this country. From our founding fathers that fought for the freedom that we all enjoy & and the soldiers who fought to protect those freedoms, to the women and minorities that fought for equal rights in the 60's to those that continue to fight for it today. This country is not just love it or leave it. We wouldn't be the USA if that were the case.

Considering that in 2016 there were still school(s) in Mississippi that were segregated until a judge ordered them (once again) to desegregate, I'd say we aren't quite there yet... not IMO anyway. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/05/17/478389720/after-50-year-legal-struggle-mississippi-school-district-ordered-to-desegregate This is only one small example of stuff like this that still exists. Honestly, I'm not sure that racism will ever fully go away though (until the human race is one big mash up of all the races) But right now we are only barely over 50 years from segregation and legal discrimination. It was only in 1964 that the Civil Rights Act was passed to finally outlawed discrimination by race, religion, sex etc and it was pretty weak when it first passed. It wasn't given the true power to enforce these new laws until the years that followed. There were many court cases (supreme and otherwise) in the decades that followed to fight the discrimination that continued to happen. We still to this day see court cases concerning discrimination. There are still many people who were brought up in environments where it was normal to be prejudice toward minorities. It's going to take more time, but we are generally moving in the right direction.

And implied all the people who don't work or pay taxes are black and live in the ghetto...

Yes this time feels different. I'm not 100% sold on the OL coach or OC. But the O line and offense can tend to take longer to come together than the defense does (especially a less complicated scheme like McD's). I'm willing to give them some time though. Dennison and Kubiak's offense was good enough to win a Super Bowl with Brock Osweiller and the ghost of Peyton Manning after all so he deserves a little time at least. Overall, I just see a disciplined and well coached team. They seem to be executing the scheme very well on defense. Guys seem to have good fundamentals, technique and execution. Players are in proper position to make plays. Those are all very important things IMO. I love how they all swarm the ball on defense, too! That's more good coaching right there. He has these guys really buying in to what they're doing and actually playing like a true team. Everyone doing their jobs. "Be one eleventh" as McD says... They also seem to have done a good job, at least initially, of bringing in players who fit their scheme. Most of the guys brought in by this new regime have all made an impact. That gives me hope they know what they're doing... McDermott focused on bringing in coaches who were good teachers (of fundamentals/scheme/technique etc). That's something that Belichick has always excelled at. He's one of the best teachers of the game that there is. He doesn't (usually) have a team full of stars. He finds guys that fit his scheme/culture and he teaches them to out-execute the other team. Everyone does their job, usually very well and IMO it's one of the reasons they win so much (Brady is obviously another). I've been a fan of McDermott (and his defense) for years and have been on the hype train since day 1 though, so maybe I'm just a homer... lol. I've been impressed with our halftime adjustments in all 3 games so far. That's something mostl all of the good coaches do well and it makes me think that we may finally have one of those good coaches ourselves. Fingers crossed!

Wait, didn't Obama take all those away? Did that not happen yet?

Here's what an NFL spokesperson had to say last year - http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/us/nfl-national-anthem-trump-kaepernick-history-trnd/index.html In fact, in 2016 the NFL made clear that players were not required to stand for the anthem "Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the national anthem," the NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said last year after 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick's protests gained attention. And here's what he said yesterday - http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2017/09/25/what-nfl-rule-book-actually-says-national-anthem/699886001/ "It’s policy, it’s not a rule. I think where people are getting confused is, rules, that’s like holding or defensive pass interference, that’s a rule. This is policy," McCarthy said. McCarthy confirmed that the league will not assess penalties to players who either did not take the field for the anthem or who protested.' A policy is like a guideline. That's why it says things like "should". Rules use words like "must".

Sucks for all sports fans in general. It's invaded every sport, from football to baseball to basketball. Even my beloved Hockey is weighing in on it. They/he took my safe space damn it! lol

I disagree with the way Jim Kelly went about making it, but I do think he has a point. I still fully defend his right to do so, but Lesean McCoy took it a little far for me and I am one who has been passionately defending the players taking a knee for days. I don't see kneeling with your head bowed with arms around your fellow teammate as disrespectful. But McCoy almost seems to be purposely trying to be disrespectful by rolling around and stretching the whole time, and it also bothers me that he was the only player on the team (that I'm aware of) that wasn't standing arm in arm or kneeling in unity with the rest of his teammates. He seems to have been the only one off doing his own individual thing when the rest of his teammates were trying to show unity. We all know McCoy likes being an individual but it would have been a good day to show your unity with the rest of the team. Anyway... Just my opinion anyway and I fully understand anyone who disagrees with it.

I was saying the same thing to a family member earlier. NFL players taking a knee was starting to die out around the NFL. Then Trump had to make his purposefully inflammatory comments and reignite the whole thing 10 fold. What was Trump honestly trying to accomplish? He had to know that it would cause exactly what happened. Was that his goal?

I actually agree with Jerry Hughes after listening to his interview. I don't see any reason why he should have just inserted himself on the field and yell at the players when he wasn't even there for their meeting to know what was going on. That doesn't mean I don't fully support Kelly's right to free speech, because I do. But the players also had every right to peacefully protest Trump's nasty comments calling them SOB's and I support them 100%. This is a man (Trump) that refused to willingly condemn a bunch of racist white supremacists and nazi sympathizers in what turned into a violent protest that killed and injured people in Charlottesville. It took him days of being shamed into it to finally condemn them, and even then he walked back his remarks after he did. Yet he had zero issue condemning a bunch of guys peacefully taking a knee.

Actually I think there might be some truth to that statement. Here is the law as written - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/227

What exactly does Baltimore having a black mayor have to do with the Baltimore police department asking the DOJ to do an investigation? And again, their investigation (which you obviously haven't even read) is based on much more than just profiling. Also, profiling doesn't just happen when there's been a crime. Stop and frisk has nothing to do with them looking for a crime suspect.

That's not true. Corporate subsidies are bipartisan. Both sides seem to like to blame the other but there's a long history of both parties supporting it. Trump himself used it to keep companies like Carrier here. He is actually a big (and vocal) supporter of corporate subsidies and tax loopholes, and has been for decades. The massive bank bailout happened under George W Bush, as well as the TARP program (which he signed into law). Republicans in congress have voted plenty of times to give out or continue corporate subsidies. Both parties have. Like in 2013 where the republican controlled house voted to slash $40B from food stamps while also voting to preserve massive corporate subsidies. At least the democrats try to help the poor as well. The Republican Party bases much of their current platform on giving massive tax breaks to the rich. Just look at their voting record in congress and the senate.

Huh? How did you get that from everything I typed? What I was saying is that I don't approve of corporate welfare and that it is costs the average taxpayer much more than poor people on welfare and food stamps. Way to just totally skip over and not address any the information I presented you though. Edit - actually, I didn't even realize that you were referring to "the ghetto" with your comment below. So you are saying that all the people who don't pay taxes live in the ghetto and are black? Sure sound like it... yikes!

But one of the problems with your theory is that this investigation wasn't asked for or initiated by Obama. The Baltimore police department asked the DOJ to investigate. And in Chicago, it was initiated by thr DOJ after that fatal shooting and it was a collaboration by 3 different departments of the DOJ. They also spent over a year doing all sorts of research and interviews with police and many others. It wasn't just looking at data. There was a whole,lot that went into these reports besides just looking at numbers.

Totally agree with everything you said. I think I've said in every game day thread so far how I love the way the defense just swarms the ball! lol It's very noticeable IMO, and nice to see. I also love McDermott's "Be One eleventh" of the defense concept as well. He has those guys playing as a true Team, and one that looks to be well coached. McD focused on bringing in coaches who were good teachers and IMO it's showing... in everything from fundamentals to scheme & execution to discipline (etc).

What gives me the most hope is that all 4 guys were brought in by the new regime and they look to be a strength of the team right now. All fit very well into the new system and all have had a big impact. Really makes me think these new guys might know what they're doing. Many of the players they've brought in are having an impact.