Sammy Watkins' Rib

wow. That is a good find. Did not realize Brohm was that bad . he also only lasted two years in the NFl, both with the Bills. for all of Peterman’s issues, the guy is still in the league and has played for three different teams.

Agreed . Bills couldn’t stop shooting themselves in the foot in many games this year, lost their best defensive player early in the season. Had a high priced defensive player who will likely only be on the team for one more season basically be a no show for the entire year, found themselves at 6-6 and still ended up with the 2 seed. All signs point to the Bills being perennial contenders. If ever there was a year for the Bills to miss the playoffs or be one and done in the playoffs it would have been this year .

And most consecutive seasons with 40+ TD's

Agree. He carried the offense. But the Ravens defense was better than their offense this year. Some like to say an MVP cannot come from a team with two candidates. Making the case that neither Purdy or CMC should win. Well, the same should be said for a QB who leads an offense that is outshined by its defense.

Yeah, Stroud is a good one too. He deserves that mention in terms of value to their team. In terms of MVP though, now we are talking about a QB that had a QBR of 57. A full 13 points lower than Allen and 16 points lower than Purdy and Dak. That would be truly breaking the mold of QBR as a predictor of MVP's.

Agreed. Which is why this vote is a joke. 49-1 in favor of Jackson for first place votes??? For one of the worst statistical seasons, we've ever seen from an MVP winning QB who also happened to be supported by the best defense in the league? Completely insane. This year I don't think two QB's were asked to carry their teams more than Allen and Lamar week in and week out on the offensive side of the ball. The Bills defense was good. The Ravens defense was elite. So, I give Allen the edge in the "valuable to the team" concept of the award.

Probably at least two decades. Peyton won an MVP in 2008 with less than 30 total TD's but he also lead the league in QBR that year. Lamar was under 30 total TD's this year and not even close to the top 3 in QBR. 65 QBR to Allen's 70. Dak and Purdy both at 73. Cam won in 2015 with a lower QBR, 61 to Lamar's 65. But the Panthers had a truly elite season at 15-1 and Cam thew the second most TD's passes in the league and had the most total TD's by a wide margin. I'd say both of the above seasons were better than Lamar's. And that doesn't even take into account the Ravens defense being #1 in three major statistical categories.

Purdy stunk no doubt. I think the question is did Lamar shine? Or did his defense shine? Lamar shined the next week against the Dolphins with a perfect passer rating. Allen also shined against the Dolphins with a perfect passer rating, but that was in week 4 and long forgotten. If you told me after the Bills lost to the Eagles in OT and were 6-6 that they would win out, beat the Dolphins in primetime for the division title and 2 seed and that Allen would lead the league in total TD's by a wide margin I would have thought for sure he would win the MVP. He didn't have the greatest of games in the week 17 win against Miami but still, it felt like leading up to that game that even a 4 TD 0 turnover game would not have been enough to take it away from Lamar. I'll also add that when the Bills were 6-6, I want to say Lamar's QBR was really low by MVP standards. Pretty sure he was sub 60 at like 58 or 59 QBR. To Lamar's credit, he stepped up his game just enough in the final stretch of the season to get his QBR to a more respectable 65.

No QB had eye popping 50 TD's or 5,500 total yards this year. But if Allen's numbers were not eye popping this year than what in the heck were Lamar's? The saying used to be you had to lead your team to a top 2 seed. I guess we can throw that out. It's one seed or nothing now. Cut down on half the turnovers, and add two more wins, well yes, I think (hope actually because two more wins still has the Bills in the 2 seed) Allen would have won the MVP in a landslide.

Agree. QBR historically has been a great predictor of NFL MVP's. Typical MVP winner leads the league in QBR. Or has a QBR in the 70's at minimum, but in most years, high 70's or low 80's. This year Lamar definitely broke the mold. Yes, passing, both in terms of total numbers and efficiency was down this year compared to your average year, but still Lamar will have the lowest QBR of any QB in recent memory to win the award outside of Cam Newton. Newton of course though, lead his Panthers team to a 15-1 record and lead the league in total TD's by a wide margin. And only Brady had more passing TD's than Newton that year, and it was 36 to Newton's 35. Even with the QBR numbers being down this year you still had three QB's with QBR's in the 70's (yes, I am round up here) in Purdy, Dak and Allen. All three lead their teams to the one or two seed in the conference. Neither were supported by a defense that finished 1st in PPG allowed, 1st in sacks and 1st in take-aways. Yet, of the three, only one thought one was worthy of a first place MVP vote.

So Lamar is by far the weakest MVP winner we have had in 15-20 years IMO. And he gets 49 out of 50 first place votes. Is the NFL MVP turning into a joke like the Pro Bowl? Lamar winning isn't the issue. I agree that he should have been one of the five finalists. Winning with 49 out of 50 first place votes is the problem. Who are these voters and why don't more of them think for themselves? I'd totally get 49 out of 50 first place votes it if Lamar had a season for the ages. Statistically he had a worst season than Dak, Purdy and Allen while playing with a defense that finished 1st in the league in ppg allowed, sacks and takeaways. This should have been a close vote. Instead, we got Lamar by a landslide. Kudos to the voter who not only didn't vote Lamar 1, but actually voted him 3rd. Anyone know who that was? As for my question, if the MVP is becoming a joke. I think the answer is no. I think we had a unique year this year where neither QB that lead their team to the top record in their respective conference was your classic candidate with elite stats and pedigree. 95% of the time of the two teams that finish first in the conference you will have at least one QB that fits the criteria of elite stats and pedigree. Purdy's stats were elite but he can't break that game manager label yet. One more year and I think he breaks that label.

How exactly does he deserve it? I just find it funny that the group think is that Lamar is the obvious choice for MVP. One of the least deserving statistical QB's we've ever seen in the running for the award. His team had a heck of a year. In his biggest game of the year, the one that cemented his MVP, his defense intercepted the 49ers QB's a combined 5 times. The Ravens would have won that game with Huntley. The next week Lamar has a perfect passer rating against the Dolphins. Something JA did in week 4 as well. I'm fine with Lamar being a finalist, but no way should he win in what I suspect will be a landslide where he ends up getting like 90% of the vote share. This should be one of the closets votes in NFL MVP history. But for some reason it probably won't be. I think we have to go back decades to find a statistically worst MVP winner than 2023 Lamar. All I have to say is, I don't care if Allen reverts back to his 2019 season in terms of numbers, if the Bills ever finish with the top overall record in the league the voters better give the man the MVP.

Yeah, I thought he was actually really good picking up tough yards. It may have been the first New England game that we blew where I really noticed he was turning carries that should have been stopped for no gain into 3-4 yard gains consistently.

Wow. Thanks for posting this. I toggled over to QB, and you can really see how dominant Allen was on the ground inside the red zone. His YPA at 4.06 would have him in the top 10 of RB's. He also had 33 attempts which is top 25 for RB's and in the ball park ( 30 - 36 red zone attempts each) of Gibbs, Aaron Jones, Jacobs, Jonthan Taylor and Henry. All of whom had YPC in the red zone under 3.0 accept for Jones and Gibbs at 3.3 Among QB's Allen's YPA was double Hurts and about 0.2 higher than Lamar's. Some want to knock Allen for his 15 rushing TD's with about 5 of them being tush pushes this year, nearly all of them 5 coming in the final 5 games of the season too for some reason. But his rushing success in the red zone puts him on par with the good running backs in the league. Nobody would knock a RB for carrying the ball and doing well in the red zone.

The best and the worst at the same time.

I do think it is funny. I've heard so many of the talking heads predict that our window is closing, or that our window is closed now. Many of these talking heads predicted our window would be shut this year. Quite a few predicted the Bills would miss the playoffs and when we were 6-6 they most have been jumping for joy at their prognostication skills. How in the heck can a team's window ever be closed with JA as the QB? The Bills lost in the weirdest of ways to mediocre/bad teams this year, not once, or twice but three times and still found a way to win the division and finish as the 2 seed. While missing their best defensive player. The Bills are not going anywhere anytime soon. Exactly. The Colts with Peyton were never a dynasty. But they were a damn good team for a long time that won one Super Bowl and two AFC titles. I'll be happy if the Bills achieve the same. The AFC is so QB dominant right now. Expecting more than 1 Super Bowl ring probably isn't realistic.

Yes. Trading up for a WR always works out.

I’m assuming Travis Henry played in the Senior Bowl back in the day. Probably the leading rusher.

Wow! Brutal. That is even worse than my 1-6 start. We both were at the 2008 and 2011 games too. I commend you though for resisting the urge to go to another game now that we have JA. Surely, we would have loss this year's Chargers game somehow if you went. Let's get you to every game next year! Phenomenal record since 91.

If it comes out he was injured but wasn’t on the injury report most weeks wouldn’t that be a problem for the team? Not sure what the penalties are for that though. Team might refuse to acknowledge an injury to not be penalized. Personally, I don’t really think he was injured. And what about the second half of 2022? Was he injured then as well? I don’t recall anyone thinking he was injured last year. He also hasn’t really had great postseason performances 3 years running now too.

Fair question. I think the fairest way to compare the early careers of the two QB's is to single out River's first 4 years as a starting QB, he sat for his first two years and took over a ready to win now team. Allen, of course was still developing his first two seasons in the league into the QB he would become over the last four seasons. Efficiency wise they were actually the same QB in the regular season through prime four years of each players six first seasons. They had the exact same passer rating of 96.3 Both also had respectable QBR's during this time period all though I would say Allen has the clear edge as Rivers did have one season with a sub 60 QBR and Allen's QBR's are pretty consistently higher than Rivers. Rivers QBR seasons: 2006: 67 2007: 55 2008: 63 2009: 77 Allen QBR seasons: 2020: 77 2021: 61 2022: 73 2023: 70 Phillip Rivers first four seasons starting, years 3-6 in the league: 64 games 96.3 regular season passer rating 14803 passing yards 216 rushing yards 15,019 total yards 3,755 yards per 16 game season 105 passing TDs 2 rushing TD's 107 Total TD's 44 INT's 33 fumbles Josh Allen 2020-2023 66 games 96.3 regular season passer rating 17,540 passing yards 2,470 rushing yards 20,010 total yards 4,851 yards per 16 game season 137 passing TD's 37 rushing/receiving TD's 174 Total TD's 57 Interceptions 37 fumbles What pops is the volume Allen has put up. The game was different back in 2006-2009 but was it so different that Allen would average 1,100 more yards per season on average? And Allen's 174 total TD's over a 4 year stretch is NFL record I think. Rivers of course didn't have to put up huge numbers because they relied on LT early in Rivers career. But that shouldn't be a knock on Allen. And I am not so sure Rivers became a better QB both by volume and efficiency once that running game with LT went away. Allen also really separates himself from Rivers in post season performance. Through each players first six seasons in the league Allen is 5-5, Rivers was 3-4. Rivers had 8 passing TD's to 9 INT's with probably a sub 80 passer rating in the playoffs. Josh Allen through his first six seasons, 21 passing TD's to 4 INT's and 100 passer rating.

L - 2007 vs. Denver (Kevin Evrett game and season opener) L- 2008 @ Arizona (Bills were 4-0 going into the game but it was fools gold. Trent Edwards knocked out of the game) W- 2009 @ Carolina (One of the worst games I've been to. Bills offense only totaled 167 yards of offense but they won! Carolina had 4 turnovers. Byrd's rookie season was one of the lone highlights of the year). L- 2010 @ KC (Game went to overtime and nearly ended in a 10-10 tie before KC kicked the game winning FG with no time left). L- 2011 @ Chargers (Don't remember much. Bills were whooped). L- 2012 @ 49ers (Same as the Chargers game the year before. Bills whooped and don't remember much). L- 2014 @ Raiders (This was a critical game as playoffs were looking likely if the Bills could beat a 3 win Raider team. Carr made at least one crucial 4th and forever conversion and the Bills went on to lose). It was a rough 1-6 start for me. With original plans to visit every NFL stadium things kind of fizzled out. But then.. W-2021 vs. Dolphins (Halloween game. Brother got married at the tailgate and Bills pulled away after the game was tied 3-3 at the half) W-2022 @ Rams (By far the best game I have ever been to. Season opener at So-Fi) W-2023 @ Chargers (Weird game where the Bills turned the ball over in the weirdest of ways like they had done in too many games this past year. Luckily the defense held in the final minute after Allen was able to lead us to the go ahead FG). Amazing what drafting a franchise QB will do.

Brady also has the head to head Super Bowl win. Mahomes is probably going to need 8 rings to clearly pass the GOAT. That means he'll probably need to go to about 12 Super Bowls. I sure hope he doesn't come close to that as long as Allen is still playing.

I'm not sure that's relevant in the discussion of whether Allen's career is more like Rivers or more like Brees. Even if Allen for some reason only has a 10 year career he will have accomplished more than Rivers did in a 17 year career. Like I said, Allen is a border line HOF'er now after just six seasons in the league. He's likely a lock after next season.

Of course, Mahomes was tied 4th. This isn't that hard. Two QB's tied for 1st. Three QB's tied for 2nd. One QB alone at 3rd. Three QB's tied for 4th. He tied for the 4th most INT's in the league. Put it this way, it would not make sense to say Allen tied for the 5th most INT's in the league right? Allen had the second most INT's in the league.