PlayoffsPlease

For logical arguments sake lets stipulate that the Bills play calling against first teams all preseason was "vanilla". But this does NOT mean If "first team using vanilla plays fails" then "first team using NOT vanilla succeeds" We simply don't know what will happen when the first team moves away from the Vanilla offense. We are left with the classic Bills fans option "hope"

In his second season Eli started 16 games and the Giants won the NFC east. If EJ starts 16 games in 2014 and the Bills win the AFC east, everyone who posts on this board will be happy to continue on with the "EJ project"

Its possible the QB play and the coaching are both bad. It doesn't really have to be one or the other.

I thought preseason doesn't matter an that no one can make any conclusions. If I have been following the threads correctly our linebackers have only played against plain vanilla offenses that aren't even trying to score TDs (just like the Bills offense hasn't been trying).

obviously!

Your trying to hard. By NFL standards EJ is not "gifted", unless you are saying the 20 QBs who have had far more demonstrated success at the NFL level are also gifted.

The internal inconsistency here is stark. You can not be a "very gifted QB" and also "not able to process NFL speed". EJ is blessed with the famouse "protypical size" and "arm strength". Much like Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell were. None of them were able to "process NFL speed". Also Leaf and Russell did not have EJ's apparent work ethic. But in addition to those guys the historical NFL landscape is littered with guys who had prototypical size and arm strength. The mental aspect of the game, reading defense and processing NFL speed is what separates very gifted athletes from very gifted QBs. At this stage EJ has demonstrated that he is a gifted athlete, but not yet demonstrated that he is a gifted QB. Its not clear to me why fans would think anything posted on BuffaloBills.com as "journalism" would be objective. Its a public relations and marketing site, not a news site.

If EJ repeats his mid 70's passer rating from last year and this preseason, that will be good enough for him to remain the starter throughout the season. It also pretty much means no playoffs as its almost unheard of in the last five years for a team with a passer rating that low to make the playoffs. At the end of the season their will be a debate about whether or not it was "good" 70's or a "bad" 70's rating. In either case he will be the presumptive starter going into 2015. The only issue will be whether or not their will be a second or third round QB to provide a tiny bit of competition in camp, or a veteran retread to do that. None of this will provide the fan base much hope. Unfortunately all signs point to a team passer rating in the 70's. On the other hand if EJ can string together 16 games equivalent to his best 3 or 4 games last year, the team will make the playoffs and all the QB discussion can be ended for a time.

This is a very important point that seems lost on most people. A full stadium is an important part of making the game a compelling TV event.

All Three Simultaneously: "You don't know what the !@#$ you are doing" All Three Simultaneously: "Your probably right"

This is all part of Bills smoke screen play possum strategy to lull the bears into a false sense of security. Obviously.

The Steelers were very patient with Mark Malone for years. I loved mocking my Steelers fan friends during that era. Patience is over rated.

Someone needs to tell Marrone and Whaley that preseason and practice is meaningless and its just not fair to judge Tuel or Lewis based on that. I don't know why they are getting themselves worked up over meaningless games and practices.

Not having a number 1 pick next year really hand cuffs the Bills. It seemingly elevates the importance of the second and third round and fourth round picks. There really isn't a way the Bills can trade any of those three picks for a veteran who has actually extended NFL experience like Mark Sanchez or Matt Moore, or for a prominent back up like Mallet or Osweiller. If EJ is a stud this year it won't matter. But if he doesn't play better than last year, the Bills will be looking to use their second or third round pick on a QB. QBs picked in the second or third round (Dalton, Wilson) might come in and start in 2015, but that is not typical. If the Bills were to trade a second or third round for a stop gap, and then use the a second or third rounder for the next "QB of the future" in 2015, the Bills would be left with no third picks in the first three rounds, EJ, a stop gap, and a new development QB. That really couldn't happen. Because of that dumpster diving for cuts, or guys already available like orton or tebow are really the only options. I think if EJ were to get hurt it would be more entertaining to watch Tebow try to do something than watching Tuel or Palmer. Triple option with Spiller, Jackson and Tebow (Fred has a better throwing motion than Tebow). Tebow could probably manage to throw to Watkins behind the line of scrimmage as well as the next guy.

Marrone's addition of a QB coach to the staff this year is really paying off. The progression we have seen in EJ, Tuel and Lewis is nothing short of remarkable, some might say miraculous. Cutting Lewis is a shocker.

What you call closed minded others call "decisive". GM's for example need to be decisive when making draft decisions. They don't need to wait three years to decide if they believe or don't believe in a QBs potential, based on ....wait for it.... only college stats and what they see. Fans can also be decisive and reach conclusions based on ........wait for it... college stats, early NFL stats and what they see. What you call open minded others would call "wishy washy". Obviously nobody ever knows the future perfectly about pretty much everything. So the wishy-washy person can always win any argument about anything that is prospective with "you can't know that for sure". And the wishy-washy person will always think they won the argument. In NFL QB development for example the Bills couldn't be sure about JP Losman, Trent Edwards or Ryan Fitzpatrick until a massive amount of failure occurred. As a result, they never added credible QBs to the "pipeline" until it was time to cut ties with the incumbnent QB and go back to square 1. Other teams like the niners and eagles added QBs to their pipeline fairly consistently (not first rounders, but early to mid picks). Teams like the Bronco's and Patriots also see value to adding QBs with early picks just in case the top guys get hurt. The Bills have been the epitome of "being patient with the QB" for many years now, and it hasn't really worked out that well. There is no reason whatsoever to cut ties with EJ this early in his career or to not start him. But their also was/is no compelling reason to not add another QB to the "pipeline" in the last draft or to have considered adding a veteran like Michael Vick (not as a starter). Whaley is not wishy-washy. He has made a very decisive decision to be all-in with EJ. Part of the fun of being a fan for many, is having their developing their own opinions about roster moves. It is a tad boring to limit yourself purely to hindsight.

Selective shifting of accountability is a Bills fan's specialty. Nix made the Troup selection. Unless you work at OBD I am not sure you know if he was Modrak's guy or not. For all any of us know, current GM Whaley had more influence with Nix than Modrak did in that draft. No question the Bills whiffed on a lot of first round picks. But Modrak wasn't responsible resign guys. A Modrak era team with proper resigning could look something like this. Oline could be Levitre, Woods, Jason Peters plus whatever olinemen could have been drafted in 2010,11,12, 13, 14 Jabari Greer, McKelvin, Byrd, Donte Whitner in the secondary. Kyle Williams plus whatever 100mm DE the GM chose to sign plus whatever #3 overall person would have been picked in 2011 (Dareus was fairly consensus). plus any other linemen drafted in 2012, 13, 14 If Modrak gets blamed for Troup, I guess he gets credit for Spiller. So the RB's would be Spiller and Fred Jackson. plus anyone else drafted in 10,11,12,13,14 QB would be whatever QB's could have been drafted in 2011,12,13,14 - a few drafted since then have succeeded in the NFL WR would be steve johnson plus whoever was drafted in 11,12,13,14. Modrak was never GM. His official title probably should have been "convenient scapegoat" Its a strange concept to blame a scout who hasn't been with team for four years for the fact that the Nix/Whaley regime hasn't built a winner yet. Seattle has turned over virtually its entire roster from 2010 to 14 and managed to make the playoffs and win the Super Bowl. The Bills with the advantage of drafting around the top 10 every year haven't managed anything in the same time frame. But lets put up a statue of a mid-level manager most casual Bills fans ever heard of.

Why isn't EJ Manuel a choice in the poll? It is usually his fault.

Kelly didn't look like Elway or Marino in 1986 and internet or no internet took a fair amount of crap in in the press and from fans. Jim Kelly seemed a lot more durable than EJ does. And while memory certainly isn't perfect, I don't remember Jim Kelly ever look like he was panicking. It seemed like his problems came from trying to do too much, while EJ's problems seem to stem from not being willing to try pushing the ball up field.

I have a friend in Boston who is a Pat's fan. Every week during football season he asks me "what new way to lose a football game will the Bills invent this week?" followed by "the Bills aren't as bad as they seem.........on paper".

Here are the current backup QB options. QB 1 Kyle Orton 2 Josh Freeman 3 B.J. Coleman 4 Dominique Davis 5 Josh Portis 6 David Carr 7 John Skelton 8 Tim Tebow 9 Vince Young 10 Kevin Kolb 11 Jordan Palmer 12 Tyler Thigpen 13 Dennis Dixon 14 Pat White 15 Nate Enderle 16 John Parker Wilson 17 Jerrod Johnson 18 Adam Weber 19 Ryan Lindley 20 Alex Tanney 21 Nick Stephens 22 Ryan Katz 23 Colby Cameron 24 Kyle Padron 25 James Vandenberg 26 Mike Hermann 27 Nathan Stanley 28 Dalton Williams 29 Matt Brown 30 Caleb TerBush 31 Tim Jenkins 32 Dayne Crist 33 Brett Smith 34 James Franklin 35 Chase Rettig 36 Tommy Rees 37 Brock Jensen 38 Jordan Rodgers 39 Bryn Renner 40 Jeff Mathews 41 Kory Faulkner 42 Alex Carder 43 Keith Price 44 Collin Klein 45 Rusty Smith

Seems like Goodwin has tried to apologize. He is young man, if you are fan of the team forgive him, move on, and root for him to win.

Watching the replay of the Seahawks and Bears preseason game. The Seahawks are leading 31-0 in the third quarter and Russell Wilson is still playing. I have been a Bills fan for 40 years and there are lot of people who speak as if they have the authority of God behind them to say that "the only thing that matters is coming out of preseason game without injuries" Now I am not the smartest guy in the world, but the Seahawks just won the Super Bowl, so I am going to say Pete Carroll understands what to do with preseason better than I do. So why is Pete Carroll still playing his starters in this situation?

Well the Pats have made the playoffs 14 years running and have won a lot of playoff games, so I find it twisted to use them as a example of a system failing. Also Brady's contract is a lot less expensive to the Pats, than Rodgers, Brees, and P. Manning. He definitely takes a discount, so he really is not at all example of a QB situation who kills a teams chances of making the playoffs. Well if a team paid their current salaries to hold a clip board, it is not likely they would have the money to put together a great team around the non-clipboard holding starting QB.

As much as I would like the Bills to have a clear cut star at QB, I think the worst situation for QB in the NFL is starting to look like the expensive mediocre veteran. Sam Bradford, Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Joe Flacco chew up lots of cap space, which hurts the rest of the team. Dalton and Kaepernick now have big contracts. It will be interesting to see of the Bengals and niners can adapt to those big salaries, or if either of those QBs can elevate to star status.