GunnerBill

This is the list of the best though and length of proving it is part of the consideration for me. I do think the two best players in the NFL under 25 are Sewell and Hamilton. They both look like future HoFers. I do agree if you let any GM choose Daniels (and Stroud probably) are the top 2 because having a Quarterback just matters that much more. If Daniels backs his rookie year up he for sure moves up.

Yes. But the whole point of the elite talent conversation is about surrounding Josh. Come on you know that was the context. I don't know who executed the trade. But is pretty common knowledge Veach was the guy who banged the drum for Mahomes and convinced Andy. https://www.esquire.com/sports/a44893777/patrick-mahomes-scout-discovery-true-story/

Yes. And all you have proved is the only elite guy he has drafted is Josh Allen. We are talking about putting elite talent around Josh Allen. That is what I meant. Veach technically inherited his QB (although he was the guy that idenfied him which is why he was promoted and Dorsey let go) but he has put more elite players around Mahomes than Beane has around Josh. And Howie has put more elite players around Hurts (who isn't himself elite so needs more pieces). Your own assessment supports that.

It's actually centered on his ability to put elite talent around Josh. That is what matters.

You might not. I do. Cos when January comes around it matters.

Because those guys have multiple elite players on their rosters and Beane has one.

He is better than Cousins and better than Purdy.

I don't have Cook yet in the near elite. I have him, as I said above, two steps away from that status rather than Brown and Benford who are one. And while I dobn't know exactly what numbers.... yea I broadly think Beane has been good at getting guys in your 2nd and 3rd category. Again I might quibble a bit about a player or two (Bernard isn't in that territory for me). As for other Chiefs and Eagles I'd throw into the conversation.. it probably is just Creed and Rashee for the Chiefs. The next 4 would be Sneed, Trey Smith, Nick Bolton and Karlaftis but think they are all in the very good rather than near elite bucket. Howie has more. He still has Lane Johnson from his first spell (before the Chip Kelly having GM control disaster) who I don't think is quite elite anymore but is still near elite. Then Landon Dickerson who is near elite too. Smith I'd put in the very good category personally but can take an argument either way. And then the two DBs last year who were near elite as rooks. If they both back it up in 2025 they could both well be in elite territory. He has been the best left tackle in football over the last four years. He is elite. End of discussion for me.

But there are not 32 guys who you do. At any one time there might be 4 or 5. What do you do if you don't have one? You put a team around a darn good QB like Goff and hope you can find a way. And about once every 10 years or so that works out.

Yep. Again.... LEVELS below AJ Brown.

Yea he has only failed to have 1,000 yards once and that year he missed 3 games.

I think Verse belongs on the list. He is too high though. There is no world in which he us better than Will Anderson. And I liked Verse a lot coming out. He was my EDGE1 last year. He belongs in the 15-25 territory. Not top 10.

If we are talking just 2024.... Ed was bad for 2/3s of the year. But down the stretch and in the playoffs he was very good.

I don't disagree with much of your post. I do disagree with this. He has to find more elite guys to support Josh. AJ Brown is LEVELS above Drake London. That is an insanely bad comparison. Brown is behind only Chase and Jefferson. And there is a GAP to #4. You are entitled to your opinion, obviously but I think you are miles off.

Dawkins, White and Zay were not Beane. They were McDermott. And Oliver is a hit. Not a star, but a hit.

They are. He just hasn't found that elite guy outside Josh...... yet! As I said earlier in the thread though Benford and Brown if they take another step can get into that territory. Cook maybe needs to take two more stepsm but isn't a mile away.

Of course the hit rate at the top of round 1 is higher than anywhere else. But even just the list of the Chiefs and Eagles elite guys.... Jones was top of the 2nd round AJ Brown was a 2nd rounder Mailata was a 7th rounder. I get it. It is harder drafting where the Bills do. And that is a legit excuse 2 years in. 3 years in. 4 years in. Beane is 8 drafts in. Other than 2018 - where drafting Allen trumps all else - he hasn't even had a draft that matched McDermott's 2017 haul of White, Dawkins, Milano. This isn't a Beane sucks or fire Beane post. But it is a legitmate criticsm at this stage.

Goff has been consistently underrated by a lot of NFL fans. And the reason why I am convinced is his rookie year. Where he did look horrible. You only get one chance to make a first impression and his was awful. It doesn't matter that he has then been very good and season by season consistent since then.... people will always find a way to say that is someone else's doing. Remember the "Sean McVay is reading defenses for him" nonsense. He is less Kirk Cousins and more Matt Ryan 2.0. A really good QB who isn't the most mobile and lacks a bit of clutch gene.

Yep. I'm not the one arguing Beane has had more busts than others. I actually think he has had less. The issue I have with his drafting is at the other end of the scale.

Mailata isn't elite? Are you serious? Wow. He is the best left tackle in football right now.

McDuffie is the best slot corner in football. He is literally the best player at his position. I don't know how that isn't elite. AJ Brown is a slam dunk too for me. I think he is severely underrated. For me the only two receivers better than him right now are Jefferson and Chase. On Carter you maybe have more of a case. That one might be slightly generous in terms of elite status. He is probably a tick below that right now but he is so darn talented.

Who there do you not think is elite?

I was just answering the question in respect of guys who "struggled" as rookies. And I certainly do not think it is all pro or bum. The Bills have a very solid, deep roster. What they lack is elite difference makers. Hopefully one or two emerge.

That struggled as rookies? Elam. Epenesa. Basham. Bishop. Cody Ford. Shakir. I don't put Keon in that category. Keon was okay pre-injury. He wasn't an impact player but struggled is harsh. Of the guys that did 'struggle' AJE and Shakir turned it around. The jury is out on Bishop. The others not so much.

The Chiefs currently have 3 - Mahomes, McDuffie and Jones. I don't think Kelce is anymore but at his peak may have been the greatest TE of all time. The Eagles currently have 4 - AJ Brown, Barkley, Mailata and Carter. And both Quinyon Mitchell and Cooper DeJean will be in that category if they back up their rookie year in 2025.