GunnerBill

Ha! Good point. All 3 are here!

Yea I have made the argument that 2017 was their best draft. White, Dawkins and Milano become cornerstone players for the rebirth and two of them are still here 8/9 years later. You do have to factor the Mahomes thing in but I don't think they passed on Mahomes cos Beane said "I don't like him", or McDermott didn't like him. They passed on Quarterback as a position because they wanted to do their homework properly on it (and in fairness 2018 was already known to be a strong group). They got LUCKY to get a shot at Josh the next year but also kinda unlucky that the trade they made ended up passing on a guy Mahomes level good. Josh probably makes the 2018 draft the best. And they did get Taron Johnson in that class too as a cornerstone... plus Tremaine who they got 5 years out of and Wyatt Teller who they screwed the pooch on trading away. But a new regime NEEDS credibility early and not only the record in 2017 but White, Dawkins and Milano looking like hits gave them that.

Yea those pieces are enough to demonstrate it wasn't one of the worst rosters in the NFL. It was a roster in flux in the middle of a tear down that shouldn't have made the playoffs and did - as distinct from some of those others rosters I mention - 2012, 2014, 2015 - which should have made the playoffs and didn't. Worse teams at the time it would be the usual suspects - Browns, Bengals, Jets, Dolphins, Bears, Redskins... the 49ers were terrible at that point as well they'd just hired Kyle and John Lynch after two one and done coaches. If you wanna say the Bills were 22nd or 23rd or something, fine.

They got lucky with Sean McDermott. They got a serious, professional, dedicated leader with the strength of character to walk straight into his first NFL Head Coaching job and start calling the shots (got the GM sidelined, then fired, had the long time PR guy who leaked liked a sieve moved on, and most importantly he got the trust of the owners and kept them away from football). Separate to the questions about whether McDermott is a bad, good or great coach which is being done to death elsewhere he is undoubtedly the biggest reason the franchise stopped being a laughing stock. There is no Brandon Beane, there is no Josh Allen, there is no culture and consistency had the Pegulas not got that choice right. Had they hired Anthony Lynn as the "nice guy in situ" who had done a decent job as OC in the previous season or Harold Goodwin I have zero doubt we'd have carried on spinning our wheels and we'd be onto a 3rd, 4th maybe even 5th regime under this ownership by now. Not dissimilar to the Sabres.

He won on the road in Kansas City and Atlanta. Both playoff teams.

Your timing is a bit out. Gettleman wasn't diagnosed with cancer after the Panthers fired him and he was the Giants GM by that point. Gettleman was fired about a month after Beane left for Buffalo. The thinking was that ownership's original plan had been to ease Gettleman out that summer and have a smooth transition of power to Beane and when Beane left and that was off the table they just firef him and re-hired Hurney. The reason Gettleman ran out of road in Carolina was largely his people management and as we have seen here Beane is great with owners. He gets how to stroke those egos in order to solidify his position. Beane had been acting GM and then demoted once before though - between firing Hurney the first time and hiring Gettleman. Brandon interviewed for the permanent gig then and was passed over. And ultimately in 2017 I think he just saw McDermott and the naïve but keen Pegulas as better options to hitch his wagon to than Jerry Richardson and Ron Rivera.

I think the bolded is a bit of an exaggeration. It was a mismatched roster in the middle of a tear down with the three most talented guys of the previous few years all gone by then - Sammy, Mario and Gilmore. But it still had LeSean McCoy at running back; Cordy Glenn, Eric Wood and Richie Incognito (plus rookie Dawkins) on the offensive line; Charles Clay at that point was still a serviceable tight end; Jerry Hughes and Kyle Williams on the Dline (and Dareus for 6 games - their run D fell off a cliff once they traded him) and then the McDermott 3 of Hyde, Poyer and Tre White in the secondary. They had trash at receiver and linebacker (until rookie Milano got on the field late in the year) agreed, and it was definitely not a top 6 in the AFC roster... it shouldn't "have made the playoffs" in the way I'd argue the 2012, 2014 and 2014 Bills definitely should have. But it was well coached, got a few breaks its way and snuck in. Now the 2018 roster.... when that oline had fallen apart, the receivers got even worse, Shady and Clay were at the point of decline and Kyle had finally come to the end.... THAT was one of the worst rosters in the NFL. Even as someone who has been critical of Beane I give him some props for his 2019 offseason. They didn't nail all their FA moves but they found some credible receivers and vet offensive linemen who could play in the likes of Beasley, Brown, Spain, Morse, Nsekhe and Feliciano and gave Josh a chance at least to succeed.

The Diggs numbers last year came in 8 games. He was on pace for north of a thousand yards in an offense where he was not the primary target. A year on, in an offense where he is clearly gonna be the best guy, but with a less proven QB and coming off an ACL I'm not sure he will be in a thousand yard territory again but I think he will have a decent year. Shakir will put up similar numbers to last year I will take him in the head to head on yards, Diggs head to head in touchdowns. But it will be close. In both.

His playoff record since his Superbowl win. Over 15 years ago. And I know he got a particularly rough call in a Championship game, but it is what it is. Do. And at 0-5 maybe I will feel differently. But I honestly do not see it that way you do right now.

I think he is a very good coach. No question. But I don't think if my issue is getting over the hump in the playoffs that his playoff record over the last 15 years stands up to any serious scrutiny.

Honestly I'd take McDermott.

A long time ago. I get it you are banking on him having a bit of genius and getting you over the line once. He might have done. It's possible. But his recent playoff record has to be considered in deciding how likely it is IMO.

They made the offense more efficient. But this is Sean McDermott who when asked about the Allen hurdles has said "I love it man" - direct quote. And when still growing Allen had his mid season funk in 2019 called him in after the Browns debacle and encouraged him to cut loose. I think his track record is of letting Josh be Josh. And I 100% disagree on Herbert. I think he has some issues, but spark isn't one of them. His issues are the inexplicable 3rd quarter lulls and the bonehead mistakes. Jim Harbaugh wants to play 1970s football out of principle. And his teams will ALWAYS play that way. I get that. But that proof is a hell of a long time ago. And he hasn't been losing to Lamar Jackson types since then. If only he had.

I think Payton is a very good coach too. But his playoff record since he won his Superbowl is atrocious. Not just a slight underachievement. If McDermott had lost to the teams and QBs Payton lost to with Drew Brees under centre he'd already have been fired IMO. I get the lightening in a bottle genius gameplan theory. Because Payton is capable of that, no doubt. But my word he loses some games you just cannot lose in the post season. I think McDermott has one of those - 13 seconds.

The 2017 Bills were as boring, agreed. They had Tyrod Taylor. Nobody takes the ball out of his QBs hands as much as Jim Harbaugh even when is QB is good. He could have Dan Marino and only pass it 11 times a game. Dinosaur.

But on what basis? Payton has coached 9 seasons with an elite QB since he won his Superbowl. He's had some stacked rosters in that time too. And he has lost some playoff games to clearly inferior football teams with clearly inferior Quarterbacks. McDermott hasn't done that. Maybe some of you are like "year Payton might have lost in the playoffs to Phil Rivers and Mason Rudolph, but one time he'd have found one of his genius gameplans (and he can be a genius gamplanner) and a way to get past the Chiefs with Allen and that's all that counts... so we'd underachieve in other years but we'd get to the top of the mountain that one time." That isn't an unreasonable supposition but it is nothing like a sure bet. With the 2015 roster? Yes. Tomlin and Harbaugh definitely do. Stefanski I'm less sure but possibly.

I think he allows Josh Allen to be exciting though. Justin Herbert for all his flaws used to be exciting. Harbaugh turned him into one of the most boring QBs in football. The Bills are a fun watch. The Chargers made me want to rake my eyes out. But if your point is so far McDermott has proved himself a turn around specialist not a championship winner, of course that is true.

I don't ignore the second part of that, you just omitted to quote it in your reply. The 2015 team was stacked. McDermott wins 10 or 11 games with that roster.

Agree with all three of these. Stefanski is not a top 10 coach IMO. Tomlin I think is top 10 but is ranked too high and the lovefest for Jim Harbaugh is way over the top. If you want someone to turn around a bad team with boring football, he is your man. Otherwise, he ain't. No.

Regular season it is better than "pretty good". No active coach has beaten Andy Reid as many times as McDermott. He is unbeaten vs Kyle Shanahan and has a winning record vs Sean McVay. The one who has gotten the better of him consistently in the regular season is John Harbaugh (3-1 vs McDermott) and ironically McDermott is 2-0 vs him in the playoffs.

He didn't actually. That 2015 Bills team that Rex went 8-8 with was the most loaded Bills roster of my fandom aside from QB. Significant players on that team that were not on the 2017 team: Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Percy Harvin, Stefon Gilmore, Ronald Darby, Nigel Bradham, Mario Williams, Marcel Darues (who played 6 games in 2017 and was traded with the Bills at 4-2). I know McDermott and Beane were responsible for some of that talent not being there because they'd traded away for picks or allowed to walk in FA.... but my point is in terms of the talent on the football field the 2017 roster, while not a scrub roster by any means (2018 was much closer to that - at least on offense), was definitely weaker than the 2015 roster. That 2015 Bills team 100% should have made the playoffs, more so than any other team in the drought IMO. Rex then went 7-8 before being fired in 2016, which wasn't quite as strong with Mario and Bradham totally gone and Sammy hurt for a lot of the year (and I think that was the year of cluster injuries at safety wasn't it? Ended up starting total scrubs back there). I take your point about McDermott's 9-7 vs Marrone and Mularkey's 9-7 seasons. Particularly Mularkey's actually. Marrone's was an 8-8 masquerading as a 9-7 by beating the Patriots when the Bills were already eliminated and the Patriots were locked in on playoff seeding. There WAS an element of the Bills getting some breaks their way in 2017 that the tiebreakers favoured them and the Bengals pulled off the comeback in Baltimore. I think that is legit. I less take the argument that McDermott was just one win better than Rex with the same roster. He was 1 or 2 wins better with a definitely weaker roster.

So I think it is easier for Head Coaches to demonstrate where they raise the needle when they don't have a superstar QB. I agree with you totally that Quarterbacks have more impact on wins and losses than coaches. It has always been thus in my time watching the sport. And when you have one of those top of the range elite guys.... it's just harder to see the coaching impact because the QB impact smacks you in the face first. There is also a natural fan bias towards seeing that impact on offense - QBX played better under Y coach than under Z coach ergo Y coach moved the needle. Whereas because defenses do not run through one guy in the same way team X playing better defense under coach Y than coach Z doesn't get the same attention because there are eleven constituent parts and more movement within them year to year than QBs who tend to stay on teams for longer once they are established starters. But it is legitimate for people to hold against McDermott that he has had rosters with Championship calibre talent and not brought home a Championship. And until he does that it will hold him back from being given the benefit of the doubt in the same way as say a Mike Tomlin who has basically been spinning his wheels for years now but has two Superbowl appearances and one Lombardi in his back catalogue. But he took over a dreadful culture. When he arrived it was the Rex Ryan madhouse and Doug Whaley's backroom manipulation. The 2017 roster was not a dumpster fire (though it was not quite as talented as the 2014-2016 rosters) but the locker room was. Only people who have had to do culture change realise how bleeping difficult it is.

Agree with all this. I only really like hot weather when I'm on vacation. Working in the hot weather in London (a city built to keep you warm when it's cold) can be hell. Autumn is the best time of the year and the NFL regular season, especially up to about thanksgiving when every team is trying 100% and you have upsets every week is a big part of that for me.

Nah. He's right. You're wrong.

He is better than guys on that list. There is plenty in his defensive scheme and in his leadership. Would he still be here without Josh? No probably not. But he broke the drought without him and as long as they found league average QB play McDermott would have had a 5 to 6 year run here and made the playoffs a couple more times. They are a contender because of Josh Allen. But give a Sean McDermott team even adequate Quarterbacking and reasonable defensive talent and you will find a way to win 8 to 10 games.