GunnerBill

It's still a pretty good list of credible people. Sure, there are a few numpties on it, but there always would have been even in the old days of it being all local print journos. The nutty people will have just been less high profile. The point of the way they do all pro and MVP voting is that the pool is big enough to make sure one or two eccentric people should be drowned out in the crowd. Doesn't always work mind you. Cole Beasley ended up a 2nd team all pro with one vote a few years back because there was such overwhelming consensus about the top 5 receivers that year.

I think there is very much a shot Franklin is there at #28. I don't expect him to go top 20 personally. Partly because once you get out of the top 10, where the three top guys will go, I don't see a ton of likely WR in the first teams. I think the right range for Franklin is probably in the 20s.

I thought Settle was better suited for 1T to be honest and that is mainly where the Bills have used him. Agree Jenkins is already a much better player. I just think in terms of his ability to play early he is much better suited as an end in a 3 man front. And WELL worth the money!

Yea. I don't go as far as bias, but I do definitely think there is group think. I can't remember a year recently where an MVP didn't get the overwhelming majority of votes. Even 2020 as I referenced when Rodgers, Allen and Mahomes all had great years the voting was 44, 4, 2..... I'm not arguing that Rodgers didn't deserve MVP but I'm not sure he deserved the landslide. That groupthink happens every year.

I mean having watched it I didn't feel like I was watching an MVP season from Josh Allen. I did in 2020 actually and he didn't win it Rodgers did. I understand the stats argument Aaron Schatz makes. It is an argument that has merit. I suppose I diverge from him right at the start though because I don't think MVP has to be a Quarterback award because to me it doesn't literally mean most valuable player. It is basically a player of the season award and for me taking the words literally lead you a bit down the wrong path. His assessment of Hill's value in his most recent article is why he'd likely have been my vote his route DVOA was nearly 40 percentage points clear of 2nd place. That is incredible. Overall I also think I like Schatz's All Pro votes better than the actual all pro results.

We discussed Thomas somewhere the other day. Former 5 star recruit who has underachieved his talent at Clemson. I think there is still a lot of physical potential if you can refine technique but it was rightly pointed out that he is an older prospect and there is also the question of his "want to".

I am not sure I think there was media bias, but there was definitely media groupthink - and that happens basically every year with MVP. By December there is a consensus who it should be and then everyone votes accordingly. I take the point on Lamar's stats aren't amazing - certainly as a passer 24 touchdowns doesn't feel like it should ever be an MVP - but there wasn't a single Quarterback who really dominated this year. If there had have been the media might have moved off their modus operandi but in the absence of it they stuck to what they usually do - the Quarterback of the #1 seed. I'm not saying that is right, I said before I'd have voted for Hill or CMC - because it shouldn't just be a Quarterback award and I think more than ever this year actually was the year of the playmaker so in the absence of a dominant QB I'd have stumped for one of those two. But Lamar winning it is kinda par for the course even if I agree with your point that he didn't, on the face of it, have the sort of year that justifies 49 of 50 votes.

No you are missing what he is saying. He isn't saying the record makes Lamar in a literal sense the most valuable player. He is saying the reality of the MVP award is it invariably goes to the Quarterback of one of the #1 seeds. And this season the two #1 seeds played towards the end of the year and it was clear who the better Quarterback was. I don't think @FireChans is saying that is right or wrong just that it is the reality.

100%

The bigger whiff there is post Senior Bowl there is zero point zero chance that JPJ makes it to 60. He is going round 1 IMO. I think he is a bigger first round lock than Franklin tbh.

I don't think Lamar was a very deserving MVP. I have said all along that in the absence of a QB walking away with it (and definitely none did this year) I'd have voted for non-QBs this time. Hill and CMC. But the Quarterback of the #1 seed is pretty par for the course in the way the voting for this award goes.

So Kenneth Walker, yep. Agree. Beast. Breece Hall, meh. I wouldn't swap them, but nor would I if I were a Jets fan. They are 6 and two 3s. Montgomery - no. His success was scheme. Gibbs, sure. He is very talented. Kamara, I have loved, he is one of the few guys I'd have paid a second contract - but as a rusher he has declined big style. Less than 4 ypc over the last 3 years and off field issues. I'd pass at this point. Josh Jacobs - mainly a volume guy. Again his ypc is not great. Pacheco - good back but I wouldn't swap. Barkley - yea when he is healthy and his line gives him at least some blocking he is a stud.

He wasn't the lead back for most of the year. I don't think we win the Cowboys game running Singletary the number of times we ran Cook. He just plain and simple isn't as good.

Nah it isn't zero. And I am someone who doesn't think RBs matter.

That certainly doesn't contradict what I was told. My source said Allen and Diggs have fallen out about the offense (which could well be the execution of it) and it was never a Diggs / McDermott issue. As I said earlier I wad told there were times late in 2022 when they were barely on speaking terms. And btw I said this last offseason when the popular narrative wad he had enough of coaching. That was not what I was told and your source seems to back that up.

Over the last decade - CMC, Kamara, Henry and I'd have extended Taylor too. That is it. 4.

Yea but how many elite backs are there now? Very, very few. Because in the days of OJ and even Thurm the best athletes played running back. Now they are playing Quarterback and Wide Receiver. CMC is literally the only back in the NFL this year who I think has impacted the eventual W-L of his team. And Cook isn't CMC, obviously. But the list of other guys I'd take isn't massive.

I agreed with your initial post. All I have done since is respond to people who have taken umbridge with my view on Von.

Sorry Cook is a clear tier up from Singletary. Is he elite? No. But he is a clear #1 back and Singletary isn't.

The people who don't think Cook is a 1 pretty much all fall into this camp. When they say "Cook isn't a #1 back" they mean "Cook doesn't meet my stylistic preference."

Still got to drill technique. Still got to work with the QB on reads and progressions. Still got to be an extra pair of eyes on the ipad between series breaking down what they are seeing.

Yea Tre wasn't close to his best. But he could move around, he wasn't a total liability on the field. That is the distinction. Von was replacement player level.

Yea I am in the same place with Jenkins. Love him. Think he is probably best suited to a 5T in a 3-4

That is fair. The Bills have not had enough elite players.

They are concentration drops though. His hands are pretty good. The number of time Josh checked down to him this year and he held the ball despite getting levelled as he caught it was considerable. It is just concentration especially in the redzone.