Kirby Jackson

Who’s doing this now?

No, he is not. He is a TE. When he gets franchise tagged it will be as a TE. It’s the Jimmy Graham argument. Kincaid is the most prominent pass catcher on the roster. He is a TE. He will play some from the slot. He’s an important part of the passing game. He is not a WR. The Bills pass catchers and the Bills WRs are not the same thing. We continue to insert Kincaid, Cook, and to a lesser degree, Knox into the conversation to prop up our poor WR room. We have a good TE group, an average RB group, and a bottom 3 WR room. Our pass catchers are definitely bottom 10 and very likely bottom 5. Our QB is top 2.

Yep, again, different topic. When we discuss the “Kansas City Wide Receivers” we should discuss the “Kansas City Wide Receivers.” If we want to discuss the passing game, we can talk Mahomes/Kelce/Reid. This thread was about the Bills wrs. Some turned it into a conversation about the passing game. Those things are different.

I don’t disagree. The point remains. When talking about “the Bills WRs” we shouldn’t be talking about “the Bills TE.” That’s a different conversation. This conversation is about “the Bills WRs.”

This thread has been interesting because some of the people defending the WR ROOM have talked about TE, Josh, Brady, etc… 😂 Yes, the Bills have some things to like on offense. They have a top 2 QB. Their OC led arguably the greatest college offense in history. They have a young TE that appears to be a future pro bowler. Their WRs are at, or near, the bottom of the league. That’s all true. When talking about the WR ROOM there is no need to talk about the QB, OC, TEs or RBs. They are not WRs.

I think that subtracting Morse, Davis, Diggs and adding Coleman, Claypool and Samuel is a net loss. We keep looking at what they brought in but without what they replaced (thanks @HappyDays for saying it so much more succinctly). In terms of the guys, Kincaid was a swing at an elite player. He was the first TE off the board that they traded up for. Most thought that he’d be gone by the time that they picked. He was productive as a rookie and showed flashes of potential to be one of the league’s best TEs. We will see what that looks like as the primary pass catcher in year 2. He’s the exception imo. It’s well documented on here that Coleman wasn’t my guy. I am terrified by his lack of separation. Obviously I’m hoping he turns into a good (or hopefully great) player. I just can’t be convinced that he is that and I don’t believe that the Bills think that either (at least that he’s a future number 1). If they felt that he was that guy, they wouldn’t have traded down twice. He was the 8th WR drafted. The Bills probably felt similarly about a bunch of receivers and would take which ever one was left. The Bills are positioned to get better next offseason for sure. I think that they will need another edge (unless Solomon comes on) and a WR at the top of the depth chart. They don’t need another guy they need “the” guy. Let’s hope that they don’t waste this year because they didn’t do enough at WR. Also: Claypool has a ton of talent and is a waste. My buddy that’s a scout with the Bears told me what a terrible teammate he was. His quote, “we paid him to stay home and got better.” If he keeps his head on straight he can be as good as Davis was. I just think that the odds of that are < 20%.

Fair Kincaid was a swing at an elite player. The rest of them are meant to be role players. I’m including Coleman here. The Bills DESEPERATELY needed a WR at the top of the depth chart. They traded down twice and picked the 8th WR in the draft. That doesn’t scream, “we think this guy is a difference maker.” They’ve made medium FA moves in McGovern and Samuel because they let bigger investments in those areas go (Morse and Diggs). I’d argue that the commitment to surrounding Josh with elite players is actually going backwards despite them allocating some resources over the last couple of drafts. They still haven’t addressed the top of the WR depth chart.

Don’t we have this thread on the 1st page already? Yes, they’re inexperienced. That’s a nice way of saying “underwhelming.”

Well said!! If you inserted someone at the top of the depth chart (1 of the big 3 from the draft) or a trade (Aiyuk, Higgins) you’d be okay. That would be an average WR room. They missed at the top and now they’re forcing everyone to have more responsibility than their skill sets warrant (at least at this point).

KC - Rice was a 2nd and productive, Toney former 1st, Hollywood former 1st, Worthy 1st, Moore former 2nd, etc… the investment is different. Chargers - McConkey & Coleman is a wash at this point (I preferred McConkey). Johnston had a rough rookie year but they expect big things. They are also in the bottom 3 but with higher upside. Den - Better Pitt - Pickens is so much better than everyone else that we have. The rest is a wash. NE - Bourne and Douglas is better but they are also near the bottom. NYG - Nabers is a stud. We talked about giving up an additional 1 plus to try to get that guy. He’s way better than anyone we have. Similar to Pickens. GB- we don’t belong in that conversation. That’s who we are hoping to be. They went committee but were right with all of their guys. We are in wait and see to hope that we can be a lesser version of them. Again, there are some others that aren’t good. The Bills are absolutely in the bottom 3 as of today. I said that I didn’t want to dig up the WR data but alas… (prior to this draft): Since 2018 (Josh draft) the Bills have spent 2739.8 draft value pts on 6 DL; they’ve allocated 144.1 draft value points to 7 WR. If you include Diggs that’s 924.1 points. That’s an average DL draft spot of pick 44. It’s an average WR spot of 177 (96 w Diggs). The Bills continue to allocate their best resources to the defense.

I just have a different philosophy than Beane. If I had Josh Allen, my focus would be on his weapons and protection. That’s where I’d spend and that’s where I’d invest my prime draft assets. They haven’t done that. I’ve posted the data on here before but don’t feel like looking it up. Their philosophy has been, “if I have Josh Allen he will cover holes.” My philosophy would be, “if I have Josh Allen, let’s turbocharge him and worry about everything else later.” You will win BECAUSE of Josh Allen. If you throw 97, don’t spend a lot of time working on your average curveball. Try to turn 97 into 102.

The problem is that it isn’t a position where all 5 guys are the same. The Bills depth is fine. They stink at the top of the depth chart. That’s a problem. They may not have a top 60 WR on the roster!! They may end up their statistically but, for example, the Bears have 3 WRs, unequivocally better than our best. The Bills WRs are at or near the bottom of the league. Perhaps they outperform that but I’m not holding my breath. When you start taking number 3’s and running them out there against Sauce or Ramsey it isn’t good. These guys will see attention that they’ve never seen because they’ve been pushed up the depth chart.

We’ve reached peak offseason. On paper, the Bills have a bottom 3 WR group. They could be last. If you added Aiyuk (for example) they’re still in the bottom half of the league. The reason that we all like the depth is because they have like 5 number 3’s. It’s fine for our fandom to overshadow our objectivity. Pretending that this group is good on June 24th is just not realistic. Hopefully they way overperform expectations and end up an average group. They will have every opportunity to succeed with a top 2 QB delivering the ball.

I think that I have 2 years starting from this August (although I may be confusing that with my new entrance at my house 😂). They were similar deals. Either way, I'm confident that they won’t extend that 0% beyond when they start playing there. People will have smaller PSLs in the future but smaller windows without interest. I imagine that will frustrate people that don’t pick their seats until next summer (or whatever).

This process is going to take an eternity though 😂😂. What they’re going to run into are a bunch of pissed of people when the 0% window has like 4 months instead of 2 years.

It’s going to have to be over but I’m not sure that it will be 😬

This makes sense based on what I saw. The only thing I contend is the “dwindling sales.” There are 3,000 less seats in the east club than in the current sideline clubs. The Founders Club is smaller than the current indoor clubs. I do agree that a lot of suites downgraded to Founders. The midfield clubs are a new animal but there will be enough people upgrading to those and sideline people moving towards those. The Bills will have zero trouble filling the clubs (based on size alone). At LEAST 70% of the people will stay (typical retention now is like 95-97%). Figure another 20% move into a cheaper location and the stadium remains full.

That’s not bad at all. I locked in at $15k (about the 25 yard line). The next section over was $20k. Out of curiousoty where are those located? My current seats are around the goal line. I like them. My brother wanted to go a little close to midfield.

Good topic!! I think of Matakevich playing LB and cringe. I don’t know enough about Mack Hollins but my initial instinct is to agree. He seems, like Sherfield, to be primarily a ST guy. Fortunately, the Bills have done away with vets that primarily play ST. That’s the first thing to go in a cap crunch. You can’t pay the Neal’s and Matakevichs. You need to replace them with cheap labor (and the Bills have).

I’m guessing that you can put more down. There is the 0% option and it lasts like 18 months I think. It is still paid monthly. With no interest (or full pay discount) there’s no reason not to take it. Let your money keep making money.

I said that he is ARGUABLY the best punting prospect ever. Debate that. His numbers, with a limited sample size, stack up with anyone ever. You’re assertion is that he isn’t in the conversation. That’s false. The numbers say otherwise.

You started with, “wow” and I dropped a handful of stats supporting his case as “one of the most talented punting prospects ever.” It’s really not up for debate. What he accomplished in his short time is unmatched. You diminishing the stats to support your unwarranted surprise at how dominant he was. Just say, “I didn’t realize that he was that great” and move on.

He only had 84 punts in college. In one season, 18 of those punts went 60 plus (NCAA record), 39 of them went 50 plus (NCAA record), 6 of them went 70 plus (NCAA record). His 51.19 yards per punt is the all-time record. He won the Ray Guy award. Maybe others knew of the off the field issues or they just over thought it? Either way, he is arguably the most talented punting prospect ever. That’s not hyperbole. His resume was short. His performance was unmatched.

Yes, I said what I said. FWIW, that’s not a crazy take. He literally broke records supporting that take.

Nate Peterman Kelvin Benjamin Mike Williams Aaron Maybin HC: Melvin Fowler (that guy was an a hole)