Mister Defense

Wow, great to hear and shocking.. I would think being the slowest wide receiver to ever play the game, and someone who could not get open if he was paid to do so, Coleman would likely be last in yards after catch in what everyone considered a superb rookie class of wideouts, one of the best ever. Instead, he is the best in this great group? And with his almost standing still speed, you would think his yards per catch would be dismal. But his 20.4 yards per catch is the best by far among rookie wide receivers this year. And also the 3rd best YPC in the NFL, among all wide receivers. Lkely just an aberration, luck. And Beane too, just seemed to get lucky, again.

Time will tell. I obviously don't agree with any comparison between Diggs and Cooper. Like Jaire Alexander said after Diggs went after him before the Packers' game, and during, and after, "He is a child". Alexander, taking the high road, was being kind. But I agreed with his assessment. On the other hand, Cooper has always seemed to handle himself like a man. I think others have made a great case in this thread by refuting the 3 trades as a reason to doubt him. From everything I have heard about Cooper, his character, work ethic and production, including great stats in the last two years, he is the opposite kind of player and person as Diggs. He would seem to be very happy just to do his job, catch a lot of footballs, get in the end zone a lot, and keep himself out of the spotlight. We will see how things turn out, but I definitely agree with your more optimistic options late in your post, and think the Bills will be very pleased with his production and what he does to improve the Bills' overall offense going forward. I think that the things we saw in his first week, including 34 points scored, Josh having his most productive 2nd half ever, and Coleman garnering 125 yards and Rookie of the Week, are harbingers of things to come, I'd predict that after 3-4 more games a high percentage of Bills' fans will be calling for Beane to sign him to a new contract. And I think they will.

But just like your designed to be misleading post, you know perfectly well that your and a few others' implication in this thread is not the more generic definition of malcontent, and one seldom actually used anymore, that he was just dissatisfied there and wanted to go elsewhere. I think you must know that likely applies to the vast majority of players on a team like that in Cleveland, or Dalls, right now. Instead, it is clear that you have meant the definition that now almost always applies to the term for most, someone who complaint, makes trouble, undermines. Yup, so zero, zlich to indicate that, which is your crystal clear intended use of that term.

It is obvious to anyone, or to any adult, that it is monumentally different than the Diggs' situation. First of all, unless their heads were in the sand, they heard/read/saw how undermining Diggs was here toward the end. Almost no one I know did not believe that was the seminal reason that Diggs was traded. And that, added with what we had heard had happened in Minnesota, convinced most he was a malcontent. And you do the same ol' immensely illogical--and unscrupulous-- thing, say you "don't know if Amaria is or isn't" a malcontent, but he was traded four times. Just sayin', right? Just throwing that out there, with zero evidence--and zero logic shown. Again. Literally zero to indicate Cooper was in any way a malcontent, but you just, again, throw out that BS to tarnish the guy. Just so no one is stupid enough to consider this hatesense as viable in any way. These are Cooper's stats in his last two years in Cleveland: 2022: 78 receptions 1,160 yards 14.9 yards a catch and 9 TDs 2023: 72 receptions 1,250 yards 17.4 yards a catch and 5 TDS, and elected to the Pro Bowl And zero, zlich, nada, not one single word or reference whatsoever by any Cleveland player, coach, reporter, water boy--no one indicating that in any way he was a malcontent. Why does the poster then say he does not know if Coooper "is or isn't one? Because the facts mean zero to some people. Don't let the facts get in the way of your hate.

Superb stuff Thurman! Always were one of my favorite Bills, a dynamic game changer, one of the best all around backs ever. Frankly, I was done with this thread, having given my two cents, or many cents, so it may have taken me a while to respond to that comically illogical mess of a post. Now I do not need to-- as I could not add almost anything to your extremely well supported slam dunk throttling. I read the version in red, in the quote box, and really like that, the structure making your points and analysis even sharper, more direct, You take every 'point', and carefully shred it, annihilate it, with superb facts, logic, and analysis, something he clearly cannot do. I wish that could be the last post in this silly thread, but hoping that logic like yours wins over most, and I think it does. We should wait to come back to this until after the Bills win in February next year. If you agree with what I say here everyone who reads that should give it an 'awesome'...

Great stats to back up excellent points, analysis. Almost comical how illogical the ideas are that you needed to respond to, as if there was no consideration of logic, facts, or reason: 'Darn the facts, I will just throw out some random disparaging ideas about out new high quality wide receiver, hoping a few others with similar low (no?) standards for truth and reason support me'. (Notice how they have not?) Excellent to see someone adding objectivity and reason to this discussion.

Nope, definitely not! Not a fan of Dorsey, thought he was the biggest weakness of the team going into the season and predicted on here then that he would be fired by Thanksgiving. When it happened, all Bills' fans and I had a big extra thing to be very thankful for. Hope. Probably not a bad guy, but an incompetent OC, simply did not know how to do vital parts of his job. To me, hiring him was McDermott's biggest mistake. I was worried he would not fire Dorsey before Thanksgiving and believed that likely would mean the Bills would miss the playoffs. May want to read my OP on the day of or after they let him go.

Now you are thinking! I likey.

Of course, you make great points--4 teams, so why not throw him under the bus with zero facts that the trades were because of his skills or character? Very logical of you, as usual. As always? I have zero evidence to refute the zero evidence of a post? Lol. And go back and read some of my other posts in this thread. I think there is a slew of evidence. The article is just as I stated in my response--zero details to show his lack of passion, only one man, and it looks like Jon Gruden is that man from which he got his info. But, yeah, for you, someone like Gruden probably is reliable and high character. Wouldn't be surprised if you have his poster on your bedroom wall.. And shoot, I hope the Bills can always find players who 'treat football like a job', and go to 5 Pro Bowls because of that dedication.

I agree, go all in. This season. Don't break the bank, mortgage the future. A 1 and a 2? A 1 and a 3? Knox too, as he is simply not used? For a great, game wrecking defensive lineman, one that will change the entire dynamic of our defense. Surprisingly, after losing so many key players in the off season, the Bills may be close to a championship caliber team. That, we will find more about in the coming weeks, month. But either way, if not this year, next, and the Bills, once again, will not be in a draft position to get the one thing they have never had, a dominant, take over the game defensive lineman, capable of breaking apart an offense. So, yeah, why not go for it? Now. But I would rather have Crosby, as he is only 27..

Okay, but you said extremely harsh, direct--and undermining-- things about Cooper with nothing at all to back them up, including saying his other teams couldn't wait to get rid of him, and questioning his passion for the game. To me, that is a "false narrative" and it is being 'spread' on a public forum. In the link you provide, now, there is one man questioning his passion, and indications that originated by Jon Gruden, not known as a man of integrity or character himself. And no evidence, details at all to show the lack of passion. As you know, some people now, unfortunately, see anything in print, or in the media, and accept it as fact, gospel. I will continue to call BS when people go after Bills, defining them without support. You should take it easy, and don't be so quick to condemn a player, a man, as this is an entertainment forum. My parents did not name me Mister Defense for nothing.

The Browns have likely saved their season with this move. Now Dorsey is not only preparing the team during the weak, implementing the schemes and plays that Stefanski has mainly made, but will now call the plays during the game. And make the in game changes that are his forte... With Dorsey in complete control of the Cleveland offense, would anyone be surprised only good things will happen from this point forward for the Browns' offense now? I predict within 2-3 weeks Dorsey will start to being the talk of the NFL, and the head coaching talk will begin. I still cannot believe the Bills let that offensive genius go--and replaced him with Brady!!

Hello Mr. Dog, Just curious to find out when the information requested about your OP will be forthcoming? I will repeat some of my questions from my posts here, and then check to find out what your responses are. This may really help to clarify things for me and others. Define "extreme passion for football" for us, please. What does that mean, in concrete, specific terms? What are the specific criteria you use to determine a player's "extreme passion for football"? How do you differentiate between passion for football and extreme passion? Then, please use your criteria to clearly show us why Amari Cooper does not have this trait. As part of this, please let us know what you found out in your research to prove your emphatic statement, that Cooper "just happens to be good at running routes and catching footballs". Did you find out that he was born with those specific football traits, rather than do what most great athletes, passionate about their sport do, which is work their kiesters off, consistently, to get these skills? Let us know, please. Then, please really elaborate on your point that "teams couldn't wait to get rid of him". What evidence do you have to support this statement that indicates Cooper was not just traded for the usual reasons, but, instead, for that extremely negative reason--they wanted Cooper out of there so badly they could not wait to cut bait with this albatross on their team. Looking forward to your response, evidence, details. Some extremely harsh criticisms of our new 5 time Pro Bowl wide receiver, someone who in his first game as a Bil, after being in Buffalo only a few days, caught 4 passes for 66 yards and a touchdown. And who clearly opened things up for the other Bills' receivers, including our new prized rookie, Keon Coleman, who had his best day as a pro, with 125 yards, and was just named NFL's Rookie of the Week. Looking forward to finally finding out more about your criteria for your evaluation and finally viewing the evidence, details you have to support these very negative conclusions about Amari Cooper. Since I read your post I have been very concerned about the Cooper trade, think the Bills likely made a horrible mistake. Your answers, only enhancing your creative OP, will likely help me and others understand more about this albatross we may now have on our hands. Thanks in advance. Best Wishes, Mister Defense

Yes, and you ask several rational questions about this, but you are asking them as if the folks you are asking are rational thinkers, objective. Like I have said before, within a few weeks of the Bills winning the Super Bowl, most of these same people will be at it again. I think that is guaranteed. A possible first question they will ask, once they give it a few days, a week?: "Can the Bills ever be considered great if they win one Super Bowl with Josh? And next year..."

Yeah, it is the kind of comment by the OP, vague, no definition of what that 'extreme passion' means, no criteria stated for that trait--and ZERO actual evidence, facts, on why Cooper does not have that mysterious quality Mr. Dog so desires. Add it all up and it just a smear job on Cooper, clearly. Pretty shameful to lambast our new 5 time Pro Bowl receiver, pulling things out of one's kiester--and presenting them as facts and analysis.

Thanks, as when I hear the hate from poster like this, I often don't know if it is a pattern, often forget who the haters are, and their clear pattern of irrational nonsense, the pissing in the cereal. But ironically, if truly a Bills fan, and I really doubt it for many of the haters, pissing in their own cereal! Yuk! Who would do that!?

No, it is not a legitimate question, asked as if there's some nefarious reason for this being his fourth team, as ridiculous as the comment in the OP that 'teams couldn't wait to get rid of him''--and clearly seems to be supporting that nonsense. We see this in the media sometime, throwing out these loaded negative 'questions', and so spreading nonsense by 'simply asking a question'.

I agree completely and hard to imagine almost every Bills' fan not doing the same. A great fit, and in many ways. And a leader of men by example, like all true leaders. Why get rid of Cooper next year, force the team to use an early round draft pick on a receiver, rather than a defensive end or another need, on a crapshoot, as almost all players are that, even highly regarded ones coming into the draft. Even the most highly regarded receivers in this year's draft, Harrison and Rome Odunze, are not lighting their teams on fire so far. The Bills do not want to wait for a new receiver to develop, they want to win now, and next year and... I think Allen should go to Beane and indicate he will give the team a hometown discount, and not break the bank, not want to be the highest paid player of all time, though he should be. (Let Dak Prescott and the non competitive teams he has and will have, be that poster boy for the NFL.) I think Josh will settle for just 50 million or so a year, knowing that Bills' fans will always be there to help him out if needs money for milk, eggs, bread if that need arises. Before the season ends, if all goes as planned, Cooper will be signed for the next 2-3 years, if the Bills are smart.

Well said, but I think leaders come in all shapes and sizes--and demeanors. From all I read about Cooper, he is a true professional, has very high character, and is extremely dedicated to his craft. I believe, even if it is just by being around him, watching him on the field and off, a player like Coleman will learn more from him than anyone else on the team. And knowing Coleman, someone equally serious about football (don't let his good sense of humor fool you) and dedicated to his craft, will pick Cooper's brain like crazy, eager to learn as much as he can. And I have no doubt Cooper will provide him with all he asks for, consistently. Like I said in my first sentence, leaders are not all the same. They are not all people who 'fire up' others, and make a show of it. Leaders make the people around them better, stronger, more confident. It seems to me that Cooper will be that kind of leader for the young receivers on this team. We will see...

Thanks, but same idea--the team getting rid of the guy. I remember Lofton always on the sidelines there, just standing there, almost never used. Big mistake, but not surprising--the raiders. I am sure that this fact did not escape the raider fans when the washed up, sideline statue Lofton burned them for 113 yards and two TDs in the Bills' first AFC championship game at the Ralph.

Good point and analysis in your last paragraph. I think most Bills' fans watching the game on Sunday would agree. We saw the passing game open up, with great consistency and big plays throughout the last three quarters, the type of dangerous passing game we have not seen much of this season. And players like Kincaid and Coleman making big down the field plays that will likely change the nature of this offense going forward. To me, having a 5 time Pro Bowler like Cooper there opened these things up for the offense, made them possible. And this happened a few days after Cooper got to Buffalo, in the middle of the season. And as teams realize that Cooper is still the player he has always been, and still the player he was just last year when he earned his 5th Pro Bowl, they will need to double team him more and more, opening things up for the others more as the season progresses. The biggest weakness on offense so far this season, receivers not getting open consistently, will become one of the Bills' most important strengths. Look out if this happens.. And Cooper will likely be the catalyst. Imagine the possibilities going forward, once Cooper actually learns the offense, and as the Bills understand more and more just how consistent--and explosive--these weapons can be. In addition, I think Coleman especially will learn a great deal from Cooper, especially the skills needed to get open consistently. But I really disagree with your first sentence! The OP said "teams couldn't wait to get rid of him", one of the most loaded BS things I have heard said about a BILLS' player on this board, as it is pure nonsense, with zero support for the irrational hate comment. Surprised that you somehow lend credence to that, in part, by saying that Lofton was not a star player anymore when traded, as the Bills and 3 AFC Championships after he arrived would disagree. And then somehow discounting Moss in this 'Cooper has been traded too many times, so teams couldn't wait to get rid of him' nonsense, by stating that Moss was a 'malcontent'. Seems silly to accept and support such a loaded, biased unsupported point in the OP using those two examples, VW. And while I agree that Cooper may not reach the Pro Bowl again--too many weapons on this offense--I think his presence on this team will mean other Bills' players will do so now in the coming years. With Cooper leading the way, quietly, unassuming, but with great dedication and passion to the sport and the Bills.

Okay, but I think even at 30 he will be a star on this talented team, with by far the best quarterback he has ever played with in his life. We are all about to find out if this is true... I really think the OP's detail about being traded twice is irrelevant, silly actually. And means nothing. James Lofton and Randy Moss were also both traded twice in their prime. I think you'll agree, by anyone's standards, they were super stars in this league, Hall of Famers. Let's hope that Cooper can provide the Bills with an integral piece of the puzzle, just like Lofton did when he arrived here--at 33. I think he can. I think he will. And that this will be Cooper's last stop, a home for him where he fits in well. And so the Bills will sign him to a 2-3 year extension by the end of the season.

Well, Cooper is a 5 time Pro Bowler, including just last season. I think one can make the case that makes him a great player, a star even. What current receiver has played in 5 or more Pro Bowls? Tyreek Hill, Davante Adams, Evans, Hopkins-- any others? Likely missing a few, but seems a 5 time Pro Bowler means he is better than good, VW, don't you think? He will also almost assuredly end his career in the top 20 all time in yards. I think you have the same kind of unique and unrealistic standards as the OP when it comes to Cooper. And what it means to be a "star" in the NFL. For me, 5 time Pro Bowl players are that.

Did you notice any extreme passion though? Did Cooper jump up and down a lot and high five other players, onlookers or water boys, for example? As this way he would prove to everyone just how passionate he was. Did he do any good dances or celebrations after a successful run? Did he embrace the football as if it was a loved one? Kiss it, right on the laces? I think those are the kinds of things that would make Cooper worthy of the original poster's unique label, demonstrating his 'extreme passion for football'. If not, we have made a big mistake...

I don't get it, why so many hate posts, created out of thin air, with a bunch of nonsense and attacks, with zero, zilch to back up the trashing of a player or coaches? Here, Mr. Dog bashes our brand new 5 time Pro Bowl wide receiver, with NOTHING to back up extremely harsh, over the top nonsensical conclusions. 3 cases in point: 1. Let me address the first phrase I put in bold in the OP above. Mr. Dog says: "He may not have an extreme passion for football; he just happens to be good at running routes and catching footballs..." (emphasis added by me) Huh? "Does not have an "extreme passion" for football-? What exactly does that mean? How extreme do you think it should be? And what are your criteria for determining the extent of a player's "extreme passion for football"? Why no evidence presented, zero, zlich, that Amari Cooper does not have this hyperbolic trait, the "extreme passion"? From the Bleacher Report, some quotes from long time coaches who knew him very well in college: "Work ethic Kynon Codrington worked on Saban’s Dolphins staff during the 2004 season and has since covered recruiting in that area, most recently for Bleacher Report. When Mario Cristobal took Alabama’s offensive line coach job in February of 2013, Codrington texted the former FIU coach congratulations after he had gotten settled down. Cristobal told Codrington that Cooper was the hardest working player he’s been around." And from his college coach, Nick Saban: "He's just a really good person as well as a very, very good competitor.” So from two coaches who knew him very well, the "hardest working player he's ever been around" and "very, very good competitor", that from a decent coach, Nick Saban. Mr. Dog, can you define "extreme passion" and give us your personal measuring tools for assessing this trait? When a loong time fairly respected coach and scout says Amari Cooper is the hardest working player he has ever known, and another emphasizes his special competitive nature, does that now satisfy your definition of 'extreme passion'? Does it meet your high standard? Doesn't an extremely good work ethic and being extremely competitive, do that for you? Dog, Do you think there is a possibility that maybe Cooper did not just have an innate ability to run and catch, as you suggest? Is there a chance that he did not just wake up one day and find out, from out of nowhere, that he "just happens to be good at running routes and catching footballs"? Instead, for you is there an outside chance that Amari Cooper applied his superior work ethic, very competitive nature and high character to get better and better and better... until he was one of the best receivers in college and then in the NFL? I know it would destroy your own OP, but do you think that is a possibility? And that maybe that shows the passion you imply Cooper does not have? 2. Mr. Dog says. "teams couldn't wait to get rid of him" Huh? Can you back that extremely strong statement up with any evidence that teams really disliked him and "couldn't wait to get rid of him"? Don't you think right now, (and since he has left), jerry jones would love a high level character guy and excellent worker like Amari Copper back on his team, a great route runner and separator, always there to give Prescott a good, clean very reliable option to throw the ball to? Do you think that a team that is as lacking in character and discipline and work ethic as the cowboys, with every man for himself, would be much better off with a man and player like Cooper on their very dysfunctional team? I do. But a player like cooper does not fit in well with jerry's guys. I say that is a huge mark in Cooper's favor, and, again, zero evidence to back up your ridiculous hate statement. And as far as Cleveland goes? They are done for the year, and likely for several years, and when teams are in that position they often trade good players, especially ones 30+, in order to get draft capital to rebuild their team. I assume you did not know this fact? And again, no support for the nasty, unsupported definitive statement you make. 3. And Mr. Dog's last sentence, his summation of all the great evidence and related sharp analysis he has provided in the post: "I'd be very cautious about giving him big money." Because Mr. Dog believes Cooper does not have the "extreme passion", a point that he does not support at all, but considers an essential trait, and "teams couldn't wait to get rid of him", here again, with no evidence to support that, he believes he has made a very good case that the Bills should not consider signing this great player to an extension. I think I am as critical as anyone when the team makes mistakes in players or coaches etcetera, though I can also be a homer too, like most of us, but I base my points on facts, evidence, not hate and completely biased irrational analysis.