BillsFan130

Move up to low 20s and get Thomas if he's still there. If he's not, maybe trade up a couple spots to get your guy so teams like KC don't leap frog you

Ok - It sounds like your argument is, Mahomes wasn't as good statically, but it wasn't his fault. I am not even denying that a lot of that isn't true as he clearly didn't have the talent now compared to his mvp seasons But it's also a hard argument to say "he's better" when nothing shows that. Anyways we will agree to disagree. Have a good night man

What in gods name are you talking about? 😂 You are arguing that Brady had a bad year in 2019 and got way better in 2020? 1. He went to a COMPLETELY different passing system with completely different players and a different TEAM. The variability is of course going to be massive as it's comparing apples to oranges. Perkins offence to Air raid. 2. Great QBs can have down years. Great players in any sports can have down years. Not "every year in linear". Are you that naive that you're saying it's impossible for Mahomes to have a slightly down year compared to his usual MVP self? Even though stats and advanced stats show that it was the case? Horrible comparison with the Tom Brady situation by the way. But nice try

What is your Brady argument? And what does that have anything to do with Mahomes in the point we are discussing? We are talking about Mahomes. Not Brady.. Your argument is Mahomes is getting better. Yet nothing backs up what you're saying. So how does Tom Brady factor into any of that?^

I gave you actual stats. Advanced stats. Nothing you are saying supports your argument that Mahomes is getting better. You are obviously in the camp that Mahomes can't do any wrong no matter what the numbers say because right now your argument is "trust me bro" with nothing to back up what you're claiming. So there's really no point arguing anymore . I wish we can pin this post lol. Very well said

You're cherry picking a stat or two instead of factoring in the whole picture . I posted a stat that he was graded higher in 2018 compared to 2023. 100 percent. I can't stand the "Mahomes is the best cause he wins SB argument". It's so lazy If people say Mahomes is better than Josh, that's fair of course. But to use the SB argument is extremely lazy

Ahh using the "Mahomes is getting better cause his team is winning SBs argument". It was only a matter of time before someone used that lazy argument. I didn't know Mahomes and Josh played individual sports. I thought football was a 53 man team game, but what do I know.

But there's just nothing to support your argument that Mahomes is getting better. Actual stats. Advanced stats. Nothing. All great QBs have great stats buddy lol. It would be foolish not to factor in stats. Mahomes actual stats are way worse. And his advanced stats are worse since 2018. So I really don't know what you wanna argue- If you want straw at things like "Toney caused an INT or two " compared to all data im saying here, that's a poor hill to die on and you have your mind made up so not much saying more

He had more turnovers last year compared to the previous great ones. So I am not sure that would fit the "he's taking what the defence is giving him" narrative.

I'm not denying Mahomes isn't great, that's not what I'm saying. But I am saying Mahomes isn't "better" now than a few years ago when he was winning MVPs and even SBs

If that's PFF I'm sorry I can't put much stock into those. If you're a PFF guy, they have Josh as the number 1 QB. (if those stats are PfF) Here are actual stats that aren't over analyzed by nerds 👇 Mahomes 2018 52 TDS, 12 picks, 5300 total yards, 114 rating 2023- 4572, 27 TDS, 14 picks, 92 rating Josh 2020- 5000 yards, 45 TDs, 10 INTs, 107 rating 2023- 44 TDS, 4900 yards, 44 TDS, 18 INTs, 92 rating again I get it, it's not all stats. But it's like come on man... Mahomes stats are wayyy worse where Josh's took a slight dip. Stats don't tell the whole story, but they need to be factored in. Especially when there are massive dips in each category. PFF also had a higher overall grade on Mahomes in 2018 compared to 2023, so if you want to go the "advanced stats " route, your argument wouldn't hold up there

No , please read my original message where I said it's not all stats. But stats do have to be involved to a certain degree But 50 plus TdS to 27 last year and you say he's improved? Thats almost a 50 percent drop off. Not too mention less yards and more turnovers. I think you have to bring something more to the table opposed to just "he plays better in the system" which is a pretty subjective argument

I definitely agree with most of that, but I'm not sure how you can say he's improved overall. I am not saying he got worse as he set the bar ridiculously high. But improved from His MVP seasons? No way IMO. He had 27 TDs last season. Teams play Josh the same they play Mahomes for the most part and Josh had 44

How has Mahomes improved out of curiosity? His TDS are way down and his turnovers were up last year. Now I am not that closed minded and just look at "stats". A lot of those reasons why those stats are going the opposite way is because he had way more playmakers in 2018/2020 compared to 2023. But He doesn't have as many special plays and he forces the ball into tighter areas which results in more negative plays. That part ^is objective and you can't argue that. Now how much of that is him vs the lack of playmakers around him compared to 2018-2020? That's the big question . But there is absolutely nothing quantifiable to say he has improved. (And please don't say "he has won SBs" , because football is the ultimate team game and it's such a lazy argument )

I hope this is true, but do you think a team would absorb 9-10ish mil per year from him? I don't

How could you possibly say Josh isn't a good leader?... lol. Because he doesn't have a melt down when things aren't going his way?

My one criticism of Beane is he doesn't have elite players on this team outside of Josh. (And maybe Milano) He is a very good GM who's built a very good team. But he does need more elite talent if the bills are going to get over the hump IMO

Well said. This is exactly the point I was trying to make when I made a thread a month back on "do the bills have enough elite talent". On the offensive side it's pretty objective that Josh currently has 0 elite players to play with.

Just saw Dawkins post about Diggs , but that's about it. Not sure if there were more

Couple drinks tonight?

Fair points. I do think the bills will use that 2025 2nd to trade up and get a receiver though. We shall see

I actually think getting a 2nd for Diggs (although it's 2025) is pretty good. His contract is a mess, he's showing signs of decline, and he's on the wrong side of 30. Oh and he's a pre madonna

They definitely need more pass rush, no argument there. But the bills cap situation right now makes it pretty unrealistic to absorb another 20 plus mil contract. (And trade draft assets)

We need a guy like him for sure. But that's way too much salary and the bills would have to restructure a bunch more contracts and backload that reddick contract Yep I would guess so. He wants to get paid and eagles probably didn't want to invest in him

Probably a lot. His last 4 seasons were: 12.5 sacks, 11 , 16 and 11 sacks. Premium position , gotta be north of 20 mil I would think