hondo in seattle

I really don't care about the Martin incident anymore. Besides, Richie's past misbehavior includes far more than bullying Martin. Reading his rap sheet, so to speak, makes me regret that I celebrated RI's signing. But the other side is that Richie convinced the Pegulas that he's a changed man and maybe he is. Being so desperate for a talented guard (and PFF had him ranked #9 in the NFL after 8 games in 2013), we all want to believe that Richie has turned a corner in his life. Clearly, he's been an a**hole in the past. I'm ready to call that water under the bridge. I'm hoping as a Bill he's going to be a bully on the field and a model citizen off it. If he's not, I hope Rex, Whaley, or the Pegulas quickly make the right decision.

I was with my (ex) wife and baby daughter in Northern California. Around halftime, my ex was trying to convince me to take her shopping. I remember her asking me, "Has any team ever come back from this far down before?" "No," I grudgingly conceded. But then added something corny like, "But a fan never gives up hope." The truth was that I thought there was maybe 1 chance in 100,000 of the Bills coming back. Thurman was out. Kelly was out. And, if I recall correctly, Houston had beaten us in the last game of the regular season. They clearly had our number. I remember hanging out at Otto's in the early 80s with my impoverished, degenerate friends for 10-cent wings. We'd order buckets of 'em.

Idzik was bad but worst of all time? Not even close. Matt Millen wins that title easily.

I think the plan for next year is obvious.... Rex Ryan will elevate an already good defense. Danny Crossman will keep the STs playing at a high level. Greg Roman will do what he does best and establish a capable running attack. (I expect us to sign/draft at least one more guard). We'll do the best we can passing the ball with the best QB we can find (maybe EJ). That's probably not enough to get us to the SB but it could be enough to get us into the playoffs.

How do you know Lynch is a punk? Do you hang out with him much? People who actually know the guy (Fred Jackson, for instance) have a higher opinion of him than you do. I don't know Lynch personally and won't judge a man I don't know. Incognito, btw, isn't the penalty machine anymore that you make him out to be. During the 8 games he played in 2013, he received two flags. Just two. At that pace, he would have finished with 4 penalties for the season. In comparison, Cordy Glen had 6 penalties that year and Eric Woods had 10.

Thanks for link. Here's an interesting quote from the article: "The case against Hardy, however, started in late morning and ended at 9 p.m. It drew a dozen witnesses and featured hour after hour of testimony into the darker side of youth, beauty and celebrity, with drugs, sex and violence playing key roles in the narrative." Later on the article mentions Hardy's guns too. I agree with the previous poster that it's hard to root for team manned by sh*tty people. There will always, I suppose, be one or two bad apples and I'm so desperate for help at the guard position that I applauded the signing of Incognito. But Hardy sounds like bad news. Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/07/15/5044910/panthers-greg-hardy-arrives-for.html#.VNjeEfnF9u5#storylink=cpy

Most of us are not rude asses in 'real' life. We shouldn't be asses here either.

Yikes. Janay Rice says what Ray did was very out of character for him and that she really provoked him, etc. This doesn't make his actions right, but she does make him sound like a guy that maybe deserves a second chance. On the other hand, I don't know how much I believe Janay. Sometimes people lie to protect the ones they love, even when those they love hurt them. And then there's the issue of his declining production. I'd say no to RR. AP, I'd think about.

Agree. Regards tying up money on the guard spot... I think it's fair to say that the guard position cost us the playoffs last year. If money was short, and good QBs were on the FA market, I might think differently. But guard is a place where we can realize a substantial bang for the buck. Our economy guards are killing us. Let's open the purse strings.

Welcome to the club! While you may occasionally get abused for your point-of-view, this is probably the best place on the planet to stay abreast of the Bills. I spent 13 months at Camp Casey in 1988. Back in those days, all of 2ID was stationed there though I hear both Casey and TDC are much different now. But I loved it in my time. The Korean people were friendly and the food was great. If I knew I was going to die tomorrow, I'd have Korean BBQ tonight. Thanks for your service (not retiring yet?), enjoy Seoul, and Go Bills!

I just reread the first few pages of this thread. It's funny how some people were so cocksure Incognito wasn't coming to the Bills. We could all be more open-minded. Richie behaved reasonably well when he was last in Buffalo. Played reasonably well too. Some people think Ray Rice and AP deserve second-chances. Vick got his second-chance. Why not Incognito whose 'crimes' were less serious? I'm guessing & hoping he learned a valuable lesson during the scandal and the year-plus out of football. If not, we can always cut him. Desperation drives people to do things they don't normally do and right now we're desperate at guard.

I'm happy with the off-season coaching moves. Considering who was available, we did well. I'd keep CJ. I know some people say Roman prefers a power running game but I think the guy just knows how to draw up plays with actual running lanes. I'd love to see what CJ could do in Roman's offense and I don't think he'd be super expensive. And I'd love to keep Hughes if the price is right. It's impressive when 3 out of 4 guys on your DL go to the Pro Bowl and the guy who didn't had double digit sacks. Rex runs an aggressive defense and I want him to have lots of weapons. But Hughes could get hot on the open market. I'd love to see us acquire Revis but not if it breaks the bank (and it probably would). Beyond that, my big wish is offensive linemen. Lots of 'em. Let them compete. My biggest off-season curiosity is what the Bills will do at QB. Sign an available FA? Trade for a QB? If so who did we give up and who do we get? Do we draft a QB? Do we trade up in the draft to get one? This off-season will be interesting but it definitely won't work out in a way that we all get everything we wish for.

I agree and, thanks to you, he is now.

I largely gave Marrone a pass for last year and only really started to worry about him this year when our offense was stagnant. Marrone's supposed to be a proven OC and OL coach and yet we stunk like a rotting camel corpse in the desert with a belly full of poop in the areas he was supposed to excel at. I was neither happy nor sad when he quit - only surprised. But as more stories came out, the more I started to realize his departure was a good thing. And now looking at the staff Rex has put together, I really think the Bills are in better hands. I know a lot of folks hated the Marrone hiring from the beginning and it seems events have proven them right.

If I was a HC and Manning was my QB, then the QB position would be the last of my worries. It's a team sport and Manning's teams have been inconsistent in the playoffs. Put Manning on the Pats and he'll collect rings.

I agree - there are many great QBs who have never played on a SB winning team. I remember Archie playing and that man was talented. Unfortunately, I don't think he ever played on a team that finished over .500 because the talent around him wasn't very good. If not for his sons, he'd be forgotten. I don't think Archie deserves to be in the "GOAT" conversation but he was certainly an elite QB.

I'm not going to argue stats or accomplishments. Those have a lot to do with the coaching staffs and surrounding talent. Just watching these guys in their prime - except Unitas who was already old when I got interested in football - I decided to vote for Manning. His command of the offense, ability to read the defense, and ball placement really stand out. Other guys I considered were Brady, Montana (who, though talented, really excelled because of the West Coast offense) and Marino. Marino's quick release and accuracy have to be admired. I can't say Kelly is underrated but people tend to remember his toughness and leadership. Fact is, he had a great arm too. Dan Fouts was another guy with a great arm who deserves to be on this list. He was piling up yards before all the rule changes made it easy. Troy Aikman didn't always impress in the regular season but had an annoying knack for shining when the spotlight was on.

How did the Lee hiring work out last time? Fitz had about as good a year as you could expect from someone with his physical limitations: 3400 yards and 24 TDs. Have you ever read Lee's bio? This guy has done a lot of good work in his long career. If Rex hadn't hired him, somebody else would have. I'm not arguing that Lee will do great work with us - I don't know enough to vouch for him. But his resume says this isn't a crony hire.

No HS kid in the country has NFL skills. So you're trying to guess who will develop the talent and who won't. It's awfully speculative. Anyway, HS kids are ranked on their college potential, not their pro potential. Looking back, therefore, I'd give Johnny Manziel a 5 star rating as a HS kid for his college potential - but a 1 star rating for NFL potential. They're not the same.

BB is a genius, but not for not calling a timeout. Whatever his reasoning was, the Seahawks could have easily scored on that play and left the Pats would have been left very little time to produce a FG to tie the game. If Butler hadn't made a great read and pick, BB would be second-guessed. Butler is the hero at the end, not BB. That said, BB is a great coach despite Spy- and Deflate-Gates and I'm looking forward to his retirement.

If someone on the Bills staff deflated balls, I'd expect a slap on the wrist. But the Bills don't have Spy-Gate in their past nor a reputation as a team that pushes the limits. Clearly, a lot of anti-Patriot vitriol is jealousy. While some teams just want to win one Super Bowl and would really be content just to get to the playoffs, it's tough to watch the Patriots own their division and collect multiple SB rings. Nonetheless, the context of the deflated balls makes a difference. The Pats are not first-time offenders. Josh Gordon's offense was minor. He drank some alcohol on a plain ride. But his penalty is harsh because of the pattern he's developing. I personally think the same logic should be applied here.

A couple hypotheticals... Although I've been a Bills fan almost since the Bills began, if I had been drafted by the Pats and paid millions by the Pats, I'd give a shout out to Pats fans too. If Gronk had been drafted by the Bills, I'd be a Gronk fan. While I prefer my Bills to be classy, humble, high-character guys, I'll root for anyone who helps the Bills win.

It's hard to generalize about any fan base. I live in Seattle too and most the fans I know are both knowledgeable and classy. Certainly there are a number of people - often transplants from other parts of the country or world - who have jumped on the bandwagon since they started winning. But wouldn't that happen in Buffalo if the Bills started winning? Maybe you just hang out with the wrong people. I rooted for Seattle because (1) I wanted the tribe I live with to be happy, and (2) their opponents were the Pats who have already had more than their fair share of success. Sure, Sherman mocking Revis was sad, but do you really think any NFL roster of 53 players is replete with high character players?

Rex had all-stars on his coaching staff in NJ, how did that work out? I think it's often the case that coaches get fired because they don't have enough talent on the field. GMs would rather blame the coaches then themselves. But I'm with you half-way on this. The Bills have tended to be cheap with coaches. It's good to see Pegula open up his bank account to bring in Rex and Roman especially. If his money can attract good players and good coaches both - we're going to the Super Bowl.

Then again, look at the players Tannebaum and Idzik acquired for him. You can't blame a poker player for the hand he's dealt, just how he plays it.