PDaDdy

Von Miller just reminds everyone of Maybin. Even people that don't think he will be a bust like Maybin say "he is not Maybin". Fair or not the comparison is out there. Von Miller could be great. People are attacking or defending his weight at his height but we are all missing the point a little bit. Our defense needs big time help stopping the run. Von Miller is a pass rushing specialist. He might be great rushing the passer in the NFL but it doesn't address far and away our biggest need.

(Also please ask yourself when you see pictures of Von Miller and then you see pictures of these other guys does he look more like Aaron Maybin at his waif thin weight now or does he look more like the thick necked OLBs you provided examples of? Sorry to go the qualitative route but the eyeball test doesn't lie whereas "reported" weights can. To me those guys just look thicker and bigger.) My apologies. I didn't know you were blind as well as deaf and.....

LOL. What kind of statement is that? You aren't discussing my point. My point is that no QB elite, franchise, average joe or Trent Dilfer has won a super bowl without a top 10 performing defense. THAT is my point. I actually agree with you. QB is the single most important "position" on the team. Our statements aren't mutually exclusive. Points taken but we can say that about any college prospect entering the nfl can't we? So you really haven't said anything. If you have no idea if Quinn can stop the run you should have even less of an idea about a guy 20lbs lighter with similar other measurables. Don't disagree at all. All signs point to us continuing to run a 3-4/4-3 hybrid. Miller would have to play some DE and Quinn would have to play some OLB. Which guy do you think is going to be more capable of filling both of those roles? I too like both of them. Our biggest problem is stopping the run. I think Quinn will better address that need. I'm not sold on anyone in the draft but that is because none of them have played NFL football. Time will tell who is good or not. You won't! OH you never claimed you could tell if either would be good or not too? What a coincidence!! I have made no conclusions that I was aware of. Can you please refresh my memory? I seem to recall only comparing the two and how they would help address this teams biggest need stopping the run. A college pass rushing specialist is unlikely to address that need. I am actually in camp C- I think Von Miller is too small to play OLB/DE and be as effective a run stopper as Robert Quinn who has already brought more than just pass rushing being an effective run stuffer as well. Football is a big game for big people. There are some Rudy(s) that can be effective exceptions but generally small undersized guys don't enjoy the same success as their full sized counter parts. Hrm, maybe I should come up with a clever name to label people who don't think size matters in an attempt to discredit their point?

Great work Bandit. You were actually able to find a grand total of 1 3-4 OLB who is almost as light as Von Miller. Two more problems with this other than the obvious fact people can only provide one example of a smaller 3-4 OLB. Elvis is heavier than Miller and is actually a full 4" in not more shorter. Elvis is a little fireplug at 248 and 5'11". Miller is a wiry 6'3" if he is even still 246 after the combine. The other huge problem with these small guys like Elvis...what were his stats last year???....ZERO! Like I said small guys get hurt. He missed the whole year because he has had problems taking the pounding. The NFL is a big game for big people.

Have to agree with you again man. The Vilma and McGahee UofM connection and rivalry was a joke. He would just get killed by Willis and we would run all over the jets. I think Vilma might have been better in coverage vs stopping the run. When he went to the Saints he was playing in a system that must have fit him well. That being said there has always been a lot of talk about how good he is but I didn't see it on the field to be honest.

Somebody gets it! Nice

We need to quit mixing positions and schemes!! We are looking for a 3-4 OLB!!! Get it through your heads. People keep using examples of 4-3 ILB as examples of small guys getting it done. Apples and oranges. MAN...this never stops.

1)On point #1, NO! I have asked this question again and again. I take no answer as an admission of contrition. How many great QBs have won a super bowl without a top 10 defense or a defense that at the very least played like one in the post season???? (Can't think of any and nobody else can either) How many average QBs have won a super bowl due to a top 10 defense? (Several including the likes of Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Eli Manning, etc) 2) We absolutely can get one player that can help with the run, rush the passer and cover a TE. It's called a talented OLB. Predraft is all speculation but a guy that could potentially help in ALL those areas is Robert Quinn. Some will make a case for Von Miller but I haven't seen any game tape on the guy to suggest that he can cover the run. In fact all I have seen of him looks like lowlights not highlights. Please don't respond with the tired response of "gailiey said he could defense the run in the senior bowl". Game tape please! Other than some dreamers in this forum nobody is calling this guy a run defender.

Wow so he looked good in a class room setting against other seniors that didn't even include potentially the best players in the draft the juniors? Everybody is a big fan of saying don't look at the numbers and expert opinions look at the game tape. Since this guy isn't a one year wonder he should have PLENTY of game tape displaying his ability to cover and BY FAR most importantly defend the run which is also BY FAR our biggest problem. It sounds like I am down on this kid but I'm really not. Heat of the argument and all. He could be a bust or he could be great. What I DO KNOW is that he doesn't address our biggest need which is defending the run. 8 200+ yard games. A pass rushing specialist, until someone shows me game tape otherwise, will stand un-utilized on the sidelines while we get gashed for 4.8 yards a pop 35.7 times a game.

I will need to find the article on this but I just read something about Miller that I DON'T like at all. Apparently Miller went through a 15 - 20 lb weight gain in a very short period of time. This to me screams of Maybin who played at 220 something, was supposedly 246 around his proday or the draft and now looks to be about 215. I really hate to allege this but I started to think that Maybin was taking something to bulk up to get his big pay day in the draft. Now that he is off of whatever he is a weak little rag doll out there. If anyone can find the article, someone was making the comparison between Maybin and Miller and they said that Miller went through a similar increase in weight in a short period of time. Could be full of it though.

Heh. I was basically just calling BS. I literally can't think of a single thing that these two guys have in common other than the obvious one...they are both....uh....QBs. LOL

Normally I would lambaste somebody for that comment but maybe they have some insightful comparisons that I hadn't considered before.

Interesting comment. Care to elaborate on what makes them so similar?

For the millionth time. The exception is not the rule. Doesn't mean Miller can't be successful. It just means there is more risk drafting a smaller guy. By the way your example Harrison is 6'0" and thick. Miller is 6'3" and wiry. Harrison has also suffered from what most smaller guys suffer from in that they get injured because they are small. It is admirable that these guys give it their all and can over come their lack of size. The "little engine that could" , "rudy, rudy, rudy", david can slay goliath guys need to give it a rest. Next you will be telling me we should give a long hard look at every 5'10" QB prospect because Doug Flutie did it. It's become a joke. Just like in football if a woman ever tells you "size doesn't matter"...she is lying. GET EM DANK!!!

He got one of the picks right LOL. *See Below*

I don't know about that. I heard Gailey loud and clear and knew Spiller was the pick as I predicted. I actually wanted Spiller and I am still pleased with the pick. We have other problems that that pick could have been used to fix but Spiller could be special. I would have only been happier if we had gotten one of the elite tackles in the draft but they were gone by our pick. By our head coach's own admission he has to do a better job of getting production out of Spiller. An o-line that can block without TE and RB help, set the edge, open an inside hole or any hole for that matter would be of the greatest help to utilizing Spiller's talents as a runner. Spiller is a RB whose talent is blowing "through" holes and using his speed not blowing "open" holes. Lynch and Jackson were the guys to pound for extra yardage when the o-line couldn't get the RB to the line of scrimmage untouched. Rookie RBs struggle with blocking and his deficiencies in this area helped to keep him off the field because our line needed help. Spiller can also catch the ball and made a nice grab or two down field. Other than a couple of those plays it seemed like it was so incredibly obvious when Buffalo intended to use Spiller in the passing game. That tired little swing pass into the flat with no kind of blocking or deception wasn't fooling anyone. Despite my signature file and desire for defense for this team to me it seems more and more likely we will draft Cam Newton. Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is probably correct. The owner wants a QB. The coaches are talking up Newton as well as Gabbert for that matter. We are probably getting a QB. That being said it is also a perfect setup for a trade which almost NEVER EVER EVER happens but it is certainly cause for speculation. Although extremely unlikely all it takes is one team willing to give up a LOT to get one of these hyped up QBs. Doesn't mean they can't live up to the hype just that they are hyped.

PDaDdy, on 05 April 2011 - 10:34 AM, said: Getting Kolb when we have Fitz does nothing for us but give us two starting good backup QBs. I agree we need someone behind Fitz but moving from #3 -> #23 with an additional 2nd round pick later in the round thrown in?????? Not liking that at all!!! You can argue all day who might be marginally better Fitz or Kolb which means it's a useless trade in my opinion. LOL. Funny but no. Some fans have a VERY skewed perspective of what a back up and a starting QB are. If Fitz and Kolb are backups then there are only about 12-15 starting QBs in the league. YES, that does means that there are almost 20 other QBs in the league that I would prefer either of these guys to start over.

Who said he was a superstar?

OK, right. No offense to anyone but in year 3, he should be a much more seasoned professional QB. Tebow did it his rookie year and had better numbers. 3 games does not a hall of famer make but a good start.

Amen. Nobody is ever wrong on an internet forum even when proven so. Tebow looked pretty damn good for a rookie. Considering what he was known for in college great freakin job. I want defense our first few picks but I wouldn't lose sleep if we draft Newton. Any pick comes with risk so there is uncertainty inherent in taking any player. Of the QBs I would rather take the risk on Newton over Gabbert. Gabbert could be great but I'm not impressed with his college resume and nobody cared or knew who he was until Luck opted to go back to school his senior year. If Luck did come out this year I think he would be included in the group of ponder, locker, etc as guys that will go later in the first or the 2nd or 3rd round. Out of the 2 QBs Newton has considerably more upside due to his ridiculous physical gifts. I'm a little tired of all the he can't do this he can't do that. If I am not mistaken he has just won championships at two levels of college football and as a bonus happens to be a Heisman trophy winner. Almost every year there is the athlete vs the thinker QB BS built up by the media and fans. Newton can think and learn and Gabbert isn't an immobile statue. There is a disconnect between college football and NFL football. As I have stated before, college programs don't start QBs and prepare them to win on Sunday for an NFL team, they start and prepare them to win games on Saturday. You can take an athletic freak and teach them to take advantage of their gifts at the college level playing QB and win a lot of games. This doesn't mean they aren't capable of learning and playing the NFL game it just means that is not the primary goal preparing them for the NFL. Passing the ball is inherently more risky than running it. If you have a QB that can run and move the chains and win you a national championship why would you mess with that and put them under center and teach them how to read through progressions with 3 or 4 options? Tebow in his short time as have others has shown that these guys CAN at the very least be effective if not superstars in the NFL. Mike Vick is a great example. He got by on his physical gifts for years and never really learned how to play QB. Now that he is a new man and has been mentored by Andy Reid the guy is finally learning how to play QB at the NFL level and is better than ever. Vick is no genius. If he can learn the pro game so can Newton and so can Tebow. If Newton has the determination and ends up in the right situation he could really be something. Didn't mean to hijack the thread but it's along the theme of "running" QBs can't play NFL football at a high level. As a rookie coming out of college I don't think he started any games did he?

I am no fan of Chris Kelsay but K Williams is a probowler. As far as run defense goes, these guys might have been the only ones on the field. The flip side of this is why waste such good talent and depth at the top? With all the defensive talent in this draft a guy we draft in the 1st is going to be better than a guy we could draft in the 1st in other years where there is not so much talent. Take advantage of this drafts strength early don't squander it by assuming we can get talent late. A franchise QB is great and fans love a single player they can hold on to and have hope for the future. I am not stating this as fact but in the context of super bowl victories how many of these "franchise" QBs have won a super bowl without a top 10 defense? Most if not all I would say had a top 10 ranked defense during the regular season or at least had a defense that played like one during the play offs when it counted. I have seen great defenses and journeymen QBs win the superbowl but I don't recall an elite franchise QB win without great to elite defensive play. I would be interested to know if there is an exception to this "rule".

How does that play out for college players who are not yet part of the "collective" in collective bargaining agreement? Seems like existing players and owners define policy for new comers that have no voice and are not yet members of the NFL. Interesting points but the legality of the draft was not being challenged therefor no ruling on it. Your franchise all one company argument is interesting. I would like to know more about that arrangement. Using examples of franchises I am familiar with like fast food restaurants, they don't follow that model. Potential employees apply at the franchise that they want to work at and are hired or not. Candidates don't apply at "corporate headquarters" and then get assigned a location.

Atlanta: Matt Ryan and ???? Baltimore: ??? Minnesota: You're joking right? Pittsburgh: Some good picks but also free agents/undrafteds as well that flesh the whole thing out. New England: Per pick not as good as you think. Quantity over quality. If you have 2x as many picks as everyone else you will get lucky on some. Tampa: Good solid drafting and building a good team imo NYG: Uh......ya... The Jets have been so good drafting it makes me sick. I would he happy with half the success they have had drafting.

Wow for sucking he has won some pretty big games. I didn't know they gave out the Heisman to guys that sucked?