PDaDdy

I should have said other than Youtube. Most people probably assumed that though. No doubt. Miller is projected first round. Wilson second I believe. They both ruled the combine at the LB position. I was just pointing out the fact that they have very similar measureables Wilson actually being a tiny bit bigger. Seems like he could be a good fit for us. No his 250lbs is heavier than Millers 246 It's called math, less than, greater than. It's not about Miller. It's about Wilson. I only mentioned Miller as a positive for Wilson seeing as how those two were great at their positional drills. Not the point of the thread. Man, you Miller guys are vicious. [EDIT] Actually just saw your signature apparently you are actually a Quinn guy with a reading comprehension problem. Hammerstick seems to agree. LOL. Might be why he is a second round prospect. Thanks for the info though. I wonder how much of a student of the game he is? I don't know that instincts can really be learned but he could work on his football skills. Would be nice to get the top OLB or DE and also the top rated ILB if they are actually worth it.

To be honest I would be fine with either Quinn or Miller. I prefer Quinn as he has the size and I think might have more upside due to that size. Of course risk comes along with it as Quinn didn't play his sophomore year. Miller too comes with some risk as an article on nfl.com asks whether Miller is the right fit for us. As every other expert and scout ponders, is his size an issue? Will we be able to keep him clean to allow his natural gifts to succeed. Miller is probably the safer pick but Quinn could be one of those beastly guys that can get after the QB and hold up better in the run game due to his size.

Does anyone have any video or information on Martez Wilson? I would love the idea of getting this guy in the second round. His measureables are almost identical to Von Miller. In almost every combine event this guy was neck and neck with Miller. He is about 1" taller and than Von and at 250 is heavier. Looks like the guy can play special teams too and help out in kick game coverage as well as potentially challenge for a starting spot on defense. I don't know if this guy will drop to the second round as I have heard that the patriots as well as other teams have expressed interest.

I used to dog Kyle Williams. He is the man. He is a penetrating NT though. This in large part could be part of the run defense problem. I think he needs to be a DE in the 3-4. Let Troup man the nose.

I hope I am wrong but I still have a gut feeling that Merriman will never play a regular season down for the Bills and we threw that money away. He hasn't done anything note worthy since getting off the juice and ruining his knee. I think the lights are out for good. Sounds like a last ditch effort to make a couple bucks off of past glory. Who sells t-shirts promoting themselves when they haven't done anything in what 3 years? Sell t-shirts after you get back on the field and do something.

Correct. I couldn't agree more. I think they could both be good. I actually agree with most of his points just not one of the conclusions to draft the pass rushing specialist that he happens to support so strongly in other threads while he attacked my posts and cut down Quinn. I agree we shouldn't cut down either. Now tell him that

Ignore me all you want. I know your bias. I know you're in favor of getting Miller. I know that you are really down on Quinn. These are the facts. Sorry that these facts are so evident in your post and I am the hole that pointed that out. It was a lot of work but I don't agree with your conclusions of what we should do. To be honest I would have been with you if as you suggest 5 technique is so important that we should use our #3 pick to get one. Instead as per your bias you say to get Miller throwing in the correlation that some good run defenses also have good pass rushers. Do great pass rushers make a good rush defense...OR...is it more likely that good run defenses force opposing offenses to pass because their run game is unsuccessful and create environments where pass rushers can tee off and rack up stats? Call me all the names you want but I bring up some valid points as you have brought up some valid points. What is tiresome is hidden agendas. He has one. Defend it all you want. He did a lot of work which I appreciate. He determined that early pick DEs are VERY important to run defense. Then he lost me. Something that is also apparent in his work on where people were drafted is that most if not all of those defenses have UFAs starting for them. Should we also conclude that a great run defense needs UFAs so we should wait and pick up guys off the street to start? He then goes on to draw another conclusion which as I responded to his response was a actually a correlation and a leap of logic. Good run defenses have good pass rushers therefore good pass rushers help to make a good run defense? This is one of those chicken and the egg yin yan things as I pointed out. The truth is probably both. In what proportions none of us know. Attack my tone all you want and how I phrased things but consider my logic as well.

I'll say one thing. You are incredibly motivated. You went a long LONG LONG way to try to justify wanting Von Miller at #3 which is obviously the point of your epic post. Nice little jab at Robert Quinn not including him in the discussion to play OLB but you did at least throw him a bone saying that he won't be there in round 2. What a laugh. He likely won't get out of the top 6. You did mention a name in there that I did like though. Brian Orakpo who Quinn makes me think of more than the "usual" comparisons to Julias Peppers. So, what can we conclude from all of this, where people are drafted? NOTHING What can we conclude regarding a pass rushing specialist making your run defense better? NOTHING Talent is talent no matter where you get it from. It doesn't matter one bit what so ever where that talent was drafted or if they were ever drafted. Your list of players at various positions oddly enough is littered with UFAs. By your logic we could also conclude that great run stopping 3-4 defenses must have UFA starting. You state how important you think the 5 technique is, how most teams have a 1st rounder and then conclude a wiry OLB should be our pick at #3. Oh wait. I forgot that this was all about trying to justify Miller at #3. Moving on. The Bills specifically need better 5 technique players and Troupe starting at NT and kicking KW out to DE would go a long way towards helping that with Carrington manning the other DE spot. We need good 5 technique players but I would say the same thing about the nose and the LBs both inside and outside. That being said Robert Quinn is still the guy that I believe has the most upside and could be a great addition rushing the passer that we all know he can do and is better at stopping the actual run than Miller.

ROFLOL. I don't know which is more funny. The fact that you could actually think I would agree with such a silly single comparison or that you are actually attempting to avoid admission that your comparison is complete bs and all it is a smear tactic in support of Miller. Either way. Thanks for the laughs.

Again, done with discussing Miller vs Quinn with you. On to my plan for the draft. There is a lot of talent at the top of the draft and teams will potentially be drafting more D line/LB in the first round than ever before. Quinn was listed as a college DE. So...lets get the best 4-3 DE/ 3-4 LB in the draft instead of waiting to draft a guy like him at 34 when all that great depth AT THE TOP where it counts is depleted. Miller guys want to make it all about pass rush which Quinn is obviously good at. In addition to that Quinn can play the run and his size will give him an advantage translating his game to the NFL imo. So no, the Quinn pick does not a hypocrite make. Our problem is stopping the run. Our LB suck. A 3-4 defense needs 4 good LB sooooooo....my first two picks address DE/LB and LB. Where is the hypocrisy again? My 3rd pick gets a beefy dude that was reported to be a great run stuffer and is one of those man mountain type guys. All speculation of course but if Powe is the run stuffer he is supposed to be we now kick Kyle Williams out to DE with Carrington on the other end, Troup at the nose, a beefed up LB core and now we are ready to rock and roll. Powe becomes the back up for Troup and he would be used in short yardage, goal line, jumbo packages and substitution duty. My first 3 picks directly address our biggest problems. Covering TEs, and we/Poz suck at it, is important too but that is still part of the passing game no? Let's stop the run first. There is a reason we had the second fewest passes thrown against us in the NFL last season

MY GOD. SHEER GENIUS!!!! THE SIMILARITIES ARE SHOCKING!!!

WOW. Just....WOW. Won't waste my time on you anymore on this one. If you can't see the flaws of what you propose no amount of explanation will fix it. Either your just sticking to your guns to try to prove a point or you really aren't capable of understanding how wrong and silly those statements are. In any case it's america. People are free to believe what they want even if it is wrong. I see you have a reading comprehension problem as well. I said around 14 DL will be gone by the end of the first round. This means that we get the 15th best? How that equals no talent left in your eyes I don't understand but again you are welcome to your opinion I won't try to educate you. My plan is my signature. We have problems stopping the run. We also have problems opening holes on the offensive side of the ball and providing our QB enough time to really be dangerous. I'm not sure you will be able to see the logic of what I am proposing as you view things a bit differently than I but my draft would go a long way towards providing defensive run stuffing talent, create an environment of competition and provide depth to rotate in on defense. For some additional help on offense I have proposed big bodied blockers that can help the offensive line and help make us a power running team. If you add the two together you will see a team designed to stop the run, get after the passer and impose our will on the opposition and run when WE want to. These are just players to address needs and hopefully produce the desired result. For the even more astute you combine these fresh faces with what we have could provide the perfect environment for a young QB in a year or 2 to come in and only have to throw 20 passes a game for us to win.

Already ignoring the rest of your posts as they are silly and juvenile attempts at the "I know you are but what am I" with Maybin and Quinn. Please elaborate on the vast number of similarities between Maybin and Quinn. This should be really fun.

Please please please tell me you see the flaws in this supposed logic? You are comparing the stats of a 19 year old sophomore to a 21 year old senior and ignore the rather incredibly obvious fact that at the same age Quinn was better??? Dude, give it a rest. So what do we squander all of the defensive talent? Lets use our biggest pick to address our biggest problem. That should be pretty easy for you to wrap your head around. There may be as many as 14 DL going in the first round. All of that "deep" talent you talk about will be exhausted by the second round and we will end up with an undersized pass rush specialist and the 15th or 16th best D lineman. Nice job. Glad you aren't GM. Many have stated that it may be unfair to attempt to predict Millers NFL transition based upon Maybins failures but there are some valid comparisons between the 2 and to ignore them shows bias or lack of observational skills. Miller has additional qualities which I expect will make him much more successful than Maybin but that doesn't mean the other comparisons and traits are not valid. Just accept them and focus on their differences to make your point instead of ignoring their similarities.

So you are saying is that we were second to last in the league in pass attempts against? Only Oakland had fewer passes attempted on them. Thanks for proving my point!!!!!! ROFLOL. This in combination with the defensive rushing stats should scream to you what our problem is. I know, or at least hope, you are smart enough to get what I am saying I just can't figure out why you are trying to diminish the importance of how often and how effectively we are run on. Teams only threw against us to keep us somewhat honest. They didn't throw against us because they had to. When we are able to stop teams from steam rolling us on the ground and we can dictate when they must pass THEN we can benefit from a pass rushing specialist who can't stop the run.

You can't compare Quinn's 2nd season to Millers 4th. Apples and oranges. What people are saying is that by each players sophomore year....QUINN WAS BY FAR THE BEST!!! Who knows what he would have done his junior and senior year? None of us here. You can speculate that a guy that got 11 sacks in his sophomore year might some how magically tank and drop down the boards OR you can speculate that it is more likely that he would have continued to produce. You could even speculate that he would have improved on those numbers. To me it's much much much more realistic to predict that Quinn would have continued to produce at a high level. Weak opponents this, weak conference that. Come on. He's obviously a talented player as is Miller and chopping him down doesn't make you look good. Miller supporters keep trying to make it all about pass rushing. Despite constant reminders they seem to be unaware or don't care that stopping the run is our biggest problem! Ramius, on 11 April 2011 - 05:07 PM, said: Its not a flawed stat. Its raw data showing that Quinn is a 1 year wonder who piled up sacks against inferior competition, and largely struggled against the good teams he faced. Not too unlike a certain #11 pick in 2009. I think he is intentionally trying to be a complete..... He probably feels that the comparison of Miller to Maybin because they are of similar size, position, speed and talents is unfair so he decided to make a wild statement about comparing Quinn and Maybin to piss people off. I would ignore him at this point. Statements like that destroy a persons credibility and shows they bring nothing productive to the discussion.

Isn't that kind of the point? We all know Quinn didn't play last year. If Quinn just duplicated his "sophomore" year I think he would be more of a consensus top OLB/DE pick for us. Something which NOBODY seems to consider is if Quinn actually IMPROVED on his number he might be considered the #1 pick over all. I think the more sensible people just throw out his missed sophomore year or perhaps project a slight increase in his stats. The haters seem to think that his junior year was a bust and he would have somehow regressed. There are also the wildly optimistic people who assume there would have been improvement in his junior year. I guess it's all in your outlook or if you have an agenda supporting another candidate by ripping another.

What I am much more concerned about are how will any of those guys help our run game? I just don't see the opposition taking many chances in the pass game to give our pressure time to get there when they can run on us for 4.8yds/rush and 35.7 times a game.

There are some good points in there. I am not at all sold on Kelsay holding the edge and being a force in the run game and I don't think Stroud was that bad but he was not an asset in any way shape or form unless he was potentially helping to draw attention away from Williams to allow him to do his thing. I don't know that there will be too much improvement by way of addition by subtraction with Stroud. We have so far to go I don't think we have anyone on the roster that is that much better than Stroud. If they were I would have expected them to start last year if Stroud was so bad. Good points on the talent we already have and how we should make better use of them with another year in the system and the stash helping out on defense. I'm not saying Von Miller couldn't be a great help to this team I just feel that Quinn could be a bigger help and without question I think he will hold up against the run better than Miller likely will. We were DFL in run defense last year and adding a pass rush specialist won't help with that problem. Currently I rank Miller at about #4 with Newton, Darius and Quinn ahead of him so honestly I'm splitting hairs. ** As a note. I still stand by my statement that Shawn Merriman will not play a down for the Bills or at the very best will be found to be ineffective and released. Merriman hasn't done a damn thing in 3 or so years I think since the performance enhancing issues and injuries. I think the lights are out for good.

People talked a lot of smack about Brian Orakpo and the strength of his program, competition and conference. Unfair or not I can't help but look at this is 2011 version of Maybin vs Orakpo. Obviously it's not exactly the same but DAMN I would really hate to make the mistake of drafting the smaller pass rush specialist when our biggest problem is stopping the run. Orakpo and Maybin are 2 different people from 2 years ago but it seems like we have a chance to atone for a past sin. For all the talk about pass rushing specialists and quickness Orakpo was a phenomenal pass rusher as well as being good against the run.

Right. Miller wouldn't HAVE to be replaced or shift to DE but someone else would. If we want to be able to shift between 3-4 and the 4-3 with the existing players on field some LB has to play DE. I was looking for the person that we draft at #3 to be versatile enough to play that role. Not to be the jerk to tell someone to read the thread before posting but some of those names and this concept was brought up before. Some of the guys you mention are 4-3 OLB which is a different player than a 3-4 OLB. As another poster said before that OLB needs to be almost as big as a 4-3 DE. This is especially important for teams, a lot more than you think, that run a 3-4 4-3 hybrid. Apples and Oranges. Also stating that some small guys can succeed some how as proof that all small guys can succeed is wrong. Throwing out these few examples doesn't prove anything positive or negative about Miller. What we do know is that the NFL is a big game for big people. Smaller guys have to overcome their lack of size. I would prefer my #3 pick to have as few obstacles to overcome as possible. Lastly we have also mentioned that all of those guys are pass rush specialists. Our biggest problem by far not just for the defense but for the team is that we can't stop the run. We are TERRIBLE at stopping the run. We need pass rushing pressure but who passes when you can run against us for 4.8 yds/carry? My hope would be to get a guy that is better suited physically to play 3-4 OLB, 4-3 DE, can rush the passer AND defend the run. I don't think Miller will be that guy. I think a guy like Quinn could be.

Interesting. Your plan would require someone other than Miller to play OLB and DE or it would require a substitution to bring an actual DE on the field. Quinn, at 265 not 260, IS a bit light at that position but could certainly be capable enough. This has sort of been part of my point about Miller being too small to fill the role I envisioned. I'm hoping we draft a guy that can play OLB and DE and we could run 3-4 and 4-3 schemes with the same personnel.

There are more similarities than that but certain that is likely the biggest most obvious comparison that people made. You can't blame people too much when Buffalo so recently acquired a guy that on the surface looks VERY similar. As I said unfair or not it's not a big mystery. Miller might end up being a good NFL player. He might be a great pass rusher. He might even turn out to be a decent run defender. If you do the critical analysis as you say you will have seen 4 years of tape on Miller and you DON'T see a run defender. You see a good college pass rusher. His lack of size is a factor in translating to the NFL plain and simple. Can he overcome it? Sure, potentially. Again that all being said. We need to stop the run first and foremost. Our pass defense needs help too. It's in bad shape. I would prefer a guy that has the build and speed that could help us in both areas. We don't need specialists. We need solid every down guys on both sides of the ball. I agree with many of those points. Jason Taylor was a great player. I don't know that Miller is anymore likely to be like Taylor than he is to be like Maybin. He will be like Miller whatever that ends up being. I think or at least hope that we do get a lot more production out of our draft picks from last year. I just don't understand how a team so bad can't draft players that can replace the crap we have and start. One player does not a defense make but liabilities are liabilities. If as I expect Miller might not be a guy that can hold up against the run we would need to take him out of our 4-3 looks. He is DEFINITELY too small for a 4-3 DE even if you consider him big enough for a 3-4 OLB. Regardless of his size he has not shown in 4 years a talent for stopping the run or holding the edge. LOL. Tweener! If Quinn is a tweener at 265 lbs what does that make Miller at 245????

I have no idea what he looks like in a suit. Somebody keeps trying to post a pic of him with some WR but I haven't seen it. I am talking about the video I have seen of him.

DUDE! Looking at a picture should tell you what your eyes see Not that you will answer but I KNOW you see what I see. It's too obvious for anyone to miss. You see a wiry guy not a thick guy. Is this the ultimate factor that will determine his NFL potential specifically as it relates to stopping the run? No. Is it an obstacle that he would need to overcome? Yes, just like Jason Taylor if that is a more favorable comparison to you. It's great that you see a pass rusher on tape. Seems your eyes work pretty good now. I wonder how this pass rusher will help stop our defense from giving up 8 200+ yard rushing games, giving up 4.8 yds/carry and allowing opposing teams to run the ball against us 35.7 times a game??? If we had your pass rushing QB sack artist last year he would have sat on the sidelines watching our guys get steamrolled in the run game asking himself why his pass rush skills aren't needed. If only everyone were honest. (Yes this covers lies of omission.)