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So something like 5-3, 1 game outside the division lead, leading wild card team? You know on a team that most thought was tanking after the trade of Darby and Watkins?

I don't think you want to make a list because it will challenge your notion that he is terrible and also that the league is littered with these franchise guys. What has Derek Carr, Marcus Mariota, and Jameis Winston accomplished in this league? What has Joe Flacco accomplished in the last few years? Andy Dalton, Philip Rivers? Rivers hasn't had more than 9 wins in a season since 2009!

So unless we have Brady we shouldn't be happy with the qb play? I have said before there are about 4 guys in this league who play great week in and week out. The rest of the league is in the Tyrod level. I would even say that Big Ben has fallen out of that top 4 tier leaving an old Brady, Injured Rodgers, and old Brees.

You keep talking about Goff. You realize he has a worse completion %, more ints, and 2 more tds so far this season? This is with a great offensive mind for a hc, much better weapons, and the easiest schedule in the league to date. 5 of his 8 games he has completed less than 60% of his passes. You sure this is the guy you want to trumpet as a top tier qb? Since Rush won't give me his list, here are qbs Tyrod is playing better than this season: Derek Carr (yeah I said it), Big Ben (yeah I said it again - look it up same tds, 7 more ints, worse completion %, worse qb rating), Philip Rivers, Jameis Winston, Andy Dalton, Eli Manning, Marcus Mariota, Carson Palmer, Cam Newton, and Joe Flacco. That is just guys that people trumpet as "franchise guys." If you want to argue those guys please use actual information instead of your eye test.

So every loss in this league is on the qb? If that is so then w/l would be a qb stat which we can agree it isn't. If it is then Drew Brees is a worse qb than Tyrod as his record is worse since Tyrod became a starter. Don't we also praise coaches for adjusting their schemes to what their players do well? Somehow a coach doing that for Tyrod is a bad thing? I think what is worse would be a coach coming in and trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. You avoided it multiple times but who is your list of good enough? Who are your franchise worthy qbs in this league right now?

Before I type my response I want to say that I don't mind competition for Tyrod in the form of a high pick but think that rookie should have to beat out Tyrod for the spot. Listening to people drone on for Peterman and I can't even imagine what it would be like listening to the cries for the high pick ready or not. That said: 1. Why isn't Tyrod good enough for a playoff run? Just last year Tannehil and Matt Moore took a team to the playoffs. Certainly you know TT is better than them. Andy Dalton has taken teams to the playoffs multiple years. Tyrod is better than him. It's a team game. Until there is a team stop using team success against TT. What was your expectation through 8 games this year? I won't go through your posting history but I'll bet it wasn't 5-3. Judge Tyrod on how Tyrod plays not whether or not the team wins. 2. If a rookie qb came in and put up 47 tds to 12 ints we should all be pumped. However that is what Tyrod did and he still doesn't measure up. A young qb the first game he struggles (which is inevitable) will be massacred by fans as a bust. How many years does your rookie get? 1? 2? 3? Tyrod is in his 3rd year starting and improved each year. I will bet though you made up your mind year 1 and haven't budged. 3. Dennison gonna develop the qb? I put 2 losses directly at his feet. The Jets and Panthers game plans were atrocious. Worse yet was the lack of adjustments. This is the guy who is going to develop the young guy? Upthread I asked for guys people would designate as a "franchise guy" I'd be interested to see your list. I think you would be surprised at how few "franchise guys" there are in the league but please do list them out.

Can I get your list of Franchise guys? I ask simply because I bet you would be surprised how many "franchise guys" he is playing better than. So no trickery on my part, I'm upfront with my intentions. Please list your guys that can get it done/ Same question to you. Who is good enough to win a super bowl with and what qualifying factors put them in that group and leave Taylor out? Bills fans are going to be the last fans on the Tyrod bandwagon. Too many years of being jaded to realize that we are actually getting pretty good qb play. In the mess that was Thursday, Tyrod was a bright spot. He looked bad against Cincy and Carolina no argument although Carolina was gameplan more than performance imo. Cincy was a poorly played game by him and I think Marvin Lewis might have his number as he stunk against Cincy last year too. I can only come up with a couple of guys (Brady, Wentz, Brees, I'm sure there are a couple more) that haven't had a stinker yet this year. Seeing Eli trumped in this thread really drives home the fact people aren't paying attention to the rest of the league.

I've been saying this for a while now thanks op for putting it together in one place. Their production is very similar. The difference is the team around them. The defense and legion of boom was much more important to their team success that Russel was. Even still Wilson will put up stinkers. I'm on mobile but I believe the Seahawks scored 12 or less points 5 times in 2016. Tyrod meanwhile has a consecutive game streak at home that leads the NFL of scoring 20 or more 1e straight times. Another stat I bring up regularly is Wilson passing for 103 yards in a playoff win during their super bowl win. Be honest majbobby would you give TT credit for that win? How about the super bowl that was dominated by the defense?

Korn - Predicatable was always in my playlist when I played sports. That "GO!" 15 or so second in always got me pumped.

okay buddy So again I ask to others since jmc is boring me... I would be interested to see people's list of who they have playing better than TT in 2017. Not career, not pedigree, just there play this year. I'd be interested to see some lists. You can have conversation about him. GunnerBill comes to mind as someone who has valid criticisms of TT and lays them out. xRushx also comes to mind as someone who is slowly coming around. Your take is also fair even if I disagree with it. When someone says he is a backup rb at best, or isn't even a decent backup, I wonder what there motivation for that kind of hatred is. Could be racism, could be stupidity. Have a take, back it up with your reasons, use facts for your reasons, and nobody will say you're a racist. Use hyperbole, be ignorant, use emotion, I'm gonna wonder what your motives are.

The blackjack analogy in the article was fantastic. Yours fell flat because it was a bad analogy plain and simple.

The Bills play calling that day was utterly pathetic. Their game plan was terrible and I blame the lions share of the loss on that. On the final drive the Bills were moving the ball well until the OPI call. Would certainly have been nice for a makeup call there but it's hard to do when Zay tripped himself. Won't put the loss on the ref as I subscribe to the theory of it's your fault that your in a position where one call can cost you the game but I hated that OPI call. The Bills were moving the ball right down the field before that and it put them in a giant hole.

You realize that your analogy was terrible right? Anyway I have been thinking about this for a little bit. I would be interested to see people's list of who they think is playing better than Tyrod in 2017. Not in their career, not their reputation, not their draft status. Simply who do you think is playing better than Tyrod this year? Brady, Brees, Cousins, Wentz, Watson, Rodgers (pre-injury), Alex Smith, and Russel Wilson are fairly inarguable. I could see some arguments for other guys but it is a pretty short list imo. Interested to see others lists.

You realize that you have no idea what the dealer has down when you decide to hit or stay on 17 right?

The over under on you hating him would be set at a half of a game. The things you don't like about Taylor? Cam does. The things you like about Taylor? Cam doesn't do. He's less accurate than Tyrod, throws more picks, and appears to be very immature.

2 things this year boggle my mind this year. The Peterman hype - a 5th rounder that looked OK in the preseason is guaranteed to produce at least at a Tyrod level. You know the 5th rounder can come in and be one of the 20 best qbs in the league. Then the Reilly hype. I have never heard such clamoring for a PS guy before. I would wager most fans can't name anyone on the PS besides him. Great white hope at work with that one. I seriously can't believe the y put "he blows" in an ESPN article. Can you imagine Walter Kronkite reading the news "and a witness stated he blows" I really did appreciate the article though. I think it laid out both sides of the argument very well. Here's to a win tonight and continued team success!

Is there really anyone on this board who isn't entrenched? I thought it was a very good article save for the interviews of the people at Duff's that make Bills fans look like idiots.

To lay this stat to rest: Taylor's detractors have echoed this, noting that he rarely throws for more than 250 yards a game and that when the Bills fall behind by four points or more, his record is 3-16. (Most QBs have losing records in this scenario; Aaron Rodgers is 6-13 since 2015.) I know others have posted it but it perfectly sums up my feelings regarding the situation: "Dumping Tyrod Taylor because you think you can do better is like hitting a 17 in blackjack," Monson says. "You can do better than your hand, but you probably won't." Love watching this guy play, love rooting for him, love him as the qb of this team.

absolutely agree with everything you say here. I also attribute a lot of the patriots success to Brady taking below market deals to increase the talent level around him. If teams want to emulate their success it starts there imo

Do we ignore that the team was driving against Carolina and then the ridiculous OPI penalty killed their momentum and ultimately the drive? This was posted before the Bucs game but he came through there. Absolutely. I will even say their is really only 4 guys in Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees imo. The rest can be streaky, do some incredible things, do some terrible things, and don't separate from the pack. Look at Matt Ryan this year. 3 fumbles on snaps losing 2 this week? Last year on fire. Cam in 2015 on fire, since meh. Derek Carr last year on fire, this year struggling. Alex Smith plays Tyrod level until this year then gets hot.

Tyrod is playing better than Cam in 2017. Tyrod played better than Cam in 2016. Why would the Bills downgrade at QB? If people hate Tyrod I wonder what the board would look like when Cam goes for 154 1 td and 1int like he did this week. How about 211 and 0 tds/2ints like last week? 239 1td and 3 ints like 3 weeks ago? So for those keeping track at home that is 604 passing yards, 2 tds and 6 ints in his last 3 games. This is a 'franchise qb?" For comparison (i'll save you the work) Tyrod: 599 yards, 4tds, 1int. You would trade +5 yards over 3 games for -2 tds and +5 ints? I hope that isn't the process! In case you think I am just using a small sample. Since the start of 2016: Cam 5964 yards, 37 tds, 25 ints, 923 combined rush/pass attempts Tyrod 5121 yards, 32 tds, 8 ints, 533 combined rush/pass attempts So 400 more attempts: 840 more yards (2.1 yards per each attempt when Tyrod averages 9.6 ypa), 5 more tds (1 for every 40 attempts - Tyrod averages 1 every 16), and 17 more ints (1 every 36 attempts Tyrod averages 1 every 66 attempt). Cam has sucked since the start of last year. Super Bowl hangover is still going on almost 2 years later (I fully admit injury contributes this year).

3rd and 7th rounder

Standard: Making progressions at an average NFL starter level speed, little-to-no hesitancy in delivering a consistently accurate ball to receivers that are not necessarily wide open, and the ability to consistently win games when asked to throw for the average number of pass attempts per game (36 pass attempts in 2016). This was your standard and props for actually answering my question. Now to rebut: Russel Wilson - in 2015 he threw for 36+ attempts twice and went 0-2. Since 2015 when TT was named starter Russ is 8-5-1. Those were his 4th, 5th, and 6th years in the league. In his first 3 years he went 2-0. That is correct, in 48 games he threw for 36+ attempts twice and one was an ot game. In his first 4 seasons combined he went 2-2. Again I will repeat, TT's first 3 years are looking a lot like Wilson's first 3 years. Kirk Cousins - Since 2015 he has attempted 36+ passes 18 times. His record? 5-12-1. Might need to move him off of your list. Philip Rivers - I don't even want to waste my time with him. Suffice it to say no. The Chargers haven't won more than 9 games since 2009. Never mind I'll do the stats... 3-11 since the start of 2016. Deshaun Watson - promising start but your going to anoint a guy 6 starts in? Alex Smith? It took 6 years for the light to come on and even after it did TT has played as well as him. This is the one year Alex Smith has been ahead of TT. He's 5-4 over the last 2 seasons. Dak Prescott - 4-5 in games throwing more than 36 times including 1-3 this year. Might need to move him down. So now your list has 4 guys left. Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers, and Brees. I haven't looked at the numbers but I won't argue that they aren't the elite tier of qbs. Big Ben has a 5 int game this year though and Brees has 3 straight 7-9 seasons. Both of those guys struggle on the road as well. Your "standard" is unachievable save for the top 4 guys which is why I say people need to pay attention to the rest of the league. TT is playing very well. He outplayed Carr yesterday and I just realized even in your negativity and assuming you have TT at the bottom of your flawed list you still have him as your 21st best qb. I don't think anyone can put Eli, Mariota, or Andy Dalton above him and I would argue Cam and Jameis shouldn't be above him either.

You know you can disable the signature from the settings in tapatalk? Eball had a long run of using that signature Sent from my desk at work while I am avoiding everyone

I was going to type exactly that. Irvin is defeated walking away and gave a slight push as he went almost pouting. It's an ego shot to see a team do that after converting a 20+ yard play with how the game had gone. That sucks the wind right out of a team. I loved seeing that!