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food for thought: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors/_/date/20120220#14121 Just think how this would make you feel :sick: :sick:

some food for thought http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/features/rumors/_/date/20120220#14121 says basically all of the same things you put in your post. I would absolutely be sick to my stomach if this happened.

Vincent Jackson sat out last year on his own free will. He was able to play in those games and chose not too. Its not cherry picking stats its comparing a two year period (which is all stevie has to go on). Stevie had a worse qb and worse supporting cast but put up just as good numbers. If you would like I will "cherry pick" VJ's two best years (2009 and 2011) and I come up with averages of 64 catches 1137 yards and 9 tds. I don't understand why fans want to dump Stevie to pay more for this guy. As for the ypc argument you do realize that they are different types of receivers right? A wr is not just a wr. Some are "possession" and some are "speed" receivers. Speed receivers by nature will have more ypc and possession more catches. Which is exactly what plays out here. Again I don't understand how VJ is so much better than Stevie and clearly a #1 when Stevie supposedly is not (according to the fans here). Stevie has already played in Buffalo and supposedly has a love for this city. I don't understand the want to try for someone else other than this being a grass is greener situation for fans.

Agreed... I'll also add when your fan base doesn't support the players or turns on them at the drop of a hat. I beg you posters that think the Bills should resign Stevie on the cheap to go check out other teams message boards. Stevie is a hot commodity. He WILL get paid. I can't stand this talk of letting him walk for any reason. It's not your money! Then Bills will be under the salary cap regardless of how much he gets paid. I would also like to add for all you VJ fans go check out there stats and tell me who you would rather have. I'll also add DeSean Jackson to this list. They both make plays and have great games but there is zero consistency to them. They both also have made a big deal out of their contracts and let it affect their play. Stevie wished people a Happy New Years for crying out loud! I know its just a fan board but please check out facts and bring them to your argument. I'll post stats from the last 2 years for you: DeSean Jackson Games Played (GP) 29 Catches © 105 Yards (Y) 2017 TDs 11 (1 rushing included in that number) Vincent Jackson GP 21 (he held out!) C 74 Yards 1354 TDs 12 Stevie GP 32 C 158 Y 2077 TDs 17 So I ask who is the better receiver? Also let me add both VJ and DJ have MUCH better qbs throwing to them. The last tidbit I'll pass on DeSean has never had more than 62 catches in a year and VJ has never had more than 68. Stevie topped both of those numbers each of the last 2 years! Stop the insanity PLEASE! :wallbash:

My point was in my original response. I said that a great qb can make lesser talent look better than it is. To say that a qb is immaterial to a discussion about receiver productivity is ludicrous. I think we agree that Fitz I'd not a great qb so getting him help is not a bad thing if the player is right. Again the best receivers in the game are Larry Fitzgerald Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson are top 5 picks. Are you saying those are wasted picks? I'll ask it this way does Calvin Johnson make stafford better or does stafford make Johnson better? Or how about this way if we put Fitz on new England new Orleans or green bay do those receivers still look as good And is the offense as high powered? Or how bout if we put Andre Johnson in new England does it make their offense worse because he was a high draft pick? All I'm saying is wide receiver should not be out of the question IF there is one worth taking because our skill level is not at a point where bpa can ignore the position entirely. Edit: I am not saying it should be the pick either just that it shouldn't be ruled out due to your offense rankings which are clearly qb predicated and driven by qbs much better than fitz

my statement was you cherry picked teams with great qbs and you did it again.

I will call the season ticket rep that keeps calling me and rip him a new one . I will have a very hard time continuing to support this franchise after another bonehead move. The stated "we will resign our own" would be proven to be a lie, the build through the draft proven to be a sham, and my faith in anything Buffalo Bills would be completely destroyed. To sum it up I will be thoroughly, completely, and utterly pissed.

I think you disproved your theory with your facts. Most of the names you listed were high picks. Maybe not first round but 4 second round and 3 third round picks does not show that they are dime a dozen. WR to me is one of the harder positions to project to the pros and is a better reason to steer away from round 1 as you can find good wrs later in the draft (as you pointed out). However think of the top wrs in the game today and where they were drafted. Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, and Calvin Johnson were all top 5 picks. Let alone you cherry picked two teams with amazing qbs. A great qb (Brees, Rodgers) can make middle of the road receivers look better than they are as well as a great wr can make a middling qb (Fitzpatrick) look better. The Bills should still be in BPA mode no matter the position (save rb) yes even cb, even ot, even wr. They are in no position to pass on superior talent at any position (except again rb).

I don't think Floyd to the Bills is to far of a stretch. WR is a stated priority for the Bills. Floyd is highly ranked and fits the size that Buddy likes. Over the last few days I have started to think more and more that a wr may be picked early even if that doesn't fit Buddy's m.o. I do think free agency will have a lot to do with where the Bills decide to go in the draft. I'm not big on a wr at 10 but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Now about the rest of your mock: This is a tough year to project the draft imo. I think we will see a trade at the top as some team will be forced to move up for RG3. That will put a monkey wrench into all of these as the speculation of what team it will be is just that speculation. No way do I think he makes it to 6. I think 12 is incredibly early for Osweiller. I also think 16 is early for Burfict, he reminds me of Mualaga(sp?) who fell to the second round because of speed concerns. All in all it was a good effort. After the combine we will have a clearer picture of who goes where as well as after free agency when it becomes more clear what teams holes are. Again I gotta state I wish I had you job! Any chance you guys need a north east staff member? haha

The thought of this happening is incredibly scary. That said I don't think the Pats have as much money as you would think. Here is a list of their FAs Wes Welker - likely to get franchise tag Dan Koppen C Age:32 Andre Carter DE Age:33 Mark Anderson DE Age:29 Brian Hoyer QB, Age:26 Deion Branch WR, Age:33 Gerard Warren DT, Age:34 BenJarvus Green-Ellis, RB, Age: 27. Gary Guyton, OLB, Age: 26. Matt Slater, WR/S, Age: 26. James Ihedigbo, S, Age: 28. Dan Connolly, C,Age: 29. Antwaun Molden, CB, Age: 27. Tracy White, OLB, Age: 31. Nate Jones, CB, Age: 30. Shaun Ellis, DE/DT, Age: 35. Niko Koutouvides, ILB, Age: 31. Kevin Faulk, RB, Age: 36. - likely to retire According to this site: http://nyjetscap.com/Patriots/patriots2012.php They will have about 20 million to work with this year. Subtracting 9.5 for Welker's franchise tag and 5 million for rookies, they only have about 5.5 million left for free agents. Should be interesting to see what they do but if these figures are close to correct they might not do much.

Happy birthday to future (hopefully) at least part owner of this team

This has been a heated argument for a while now. Some people lean on Fitz's injured ribs as an excuse, some blame the injuries around him, some blame a lack of receiving talent, some blame him for sucking, and yet others say it is the o-lines fault and they only look good because he gets the ball out so fast. I fall into the camp of him not being very good. Yes he had injuries and was injured. I don't mind the idea of him starting this year but would like a backup plan in place in case he sucks again (and not Thigpen). Unfortunately with his contract it will be another year of him at the helm. This year only has the 2 qbs in the draft and it will take a ransom to get one. Next year however has a few that will be worth watching (Bray UT, Jones OU, Barkley USC, and Murray UGA). All in all this is a great board and I'll pass on some friendly advice: 1. Never ever and I mean ever engage in a serious conversation with ieatcrayonz. You'll thank me later. He/she is a troll and for some reason loved on this board. 2. Never ever and I mean ever click on.... wait I won't ruin that one it's too enjoyable Welcome!

Your man crush on Coples is as apparent as Barbarians on Tannehill but still I did go look up the stats as you requested and this is what I found: 2011 of his 7.5 sacks 4.5 came against Duke, James Madison and East Carolina 5 games held sackless 0 forced fumbles his measurables are more than impressive but there is a litany of guys with measurables that didn't work out for a variety of reasons including work ethic. His numbers production wise are nothing to brag about. 0 ff and 7.5 sacks do not scream all-pro to me. The don't even whisper all-pro to me. Especially in the ACC which is far from a power conference. As for my question of players who were labeled lazy and turned it around I am sure there are people that remember names and I was just wondering if any turned out to be studs so maybe I can get on board with Coples. As it stands now that label worries me much more than short arms does.

I would also like to see a play for Manningham although I worry that one highlight play from the SB may drive up his price.

Claiborne is rated to be the best defensive prospect in the draft. As far as d-line I have seen Brockers, Ingram, Upshaw, Coples, and Still as the highest ranked player across a multitude of forums. The question on Coples is still his motor. I don't care what his measurables are that worries me. I also could care less about a post season scrimmage. Turn on the game tape and be underwhelmed by Coples. Turn it on and get a different vibe from all of the others I listed. As a serious question, when was the last time a player with motivation/effort issues in college turned out to be good in the pros? I'm struggling to come up with an answer on that one.

These are grown men not kids. For that matter how do you know if Hines is a willing or able teacher? This attitude is why people ignore stevie's production and point to a tshirt as the reason he shouldn't be resigned. To compare them to how you teach your kids is ridiculous and insulting to them. And for the love of god its HINES he's a person not a ketchup bottle!

Lol I immediately thought damn Brady and Giselle are getting divorced already?

I'm just surprised they put him there. I have a friend who is a Bronco's fan and he's convinced the Broncos will draft a qb early but I think he's crazy. What is interesting though is I have seen Mocks with him going as high as the Redskins and others where he is at the beginning of the second round. He has seemingly emerged as the 3rd rated qb but it is a surprise to see such varied projections (albeit they are extremely early ones).

I disagree about that Manningham catch. It was a PERFECT throw that hit him right in the hands. I also disagree that they automatically win if Welker catches that pass. The could have run clock but noone knows whether they would have kicked a fg or scored a td. If it was a fg then the Giants would have had time to drive for a td that would have won the game. As for how bad Brady played and them still having a shot - it wouldn't have been the worst game a qb played and won (Rothlesburger vs Seattle) but it definitely wasn't up to his normal standards. The pick and safety are two glaring mistakes but also the pass to Welker and Branch that were "drops" were both off target.

http://nfl.cpl.delvenetworks.com/player/yahoo/carousel/embed_code.html?channelId=de89a8aeb3e422bac4eb48567f10ebd0&channelListId&mediaId=9003d66aafd043c1b9d48fea1ba880ac Not sure if embedding it will work so I will also include the link. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/video-bill-belichick-implores-defense-giants-throw-mario-192504476.html I love these segments. It's always cool to know what the behind the scenes chatter is for these games. The 1:30 mark is where Belicheck tells the d to cover Nicks and Cruz which is imo how Manningham ended up with 3 catches on the final drive. Just some really cool insight into the inner workings of the game. well it didn't embed but the top link is just the video. The bottom link has the accompanying article.

I'm prob gonna get hammered for this but... Merriman-Williams-Dareus-Kelsay would be my projection based on the roster right now. I think Carrington will spell as a de as that is what he did in college. I def feel that Merriman is a de in a 43 for as long as he can stay healthy. I also wouldn't be surprised to see Moats moved back to de in definite passing downs.

Me too... except I was more than a little bit animated. What can I say my hatred for the Pats* runs deep

yep. Not to say the info is bad or not credible but his mock is directly drawn from his rankings. http://www.espnmediazone3.com/us/2010/03/10/mcshay_todd/ quoted from the article McShay is the director of college football scouting for ESPN Scouts Inc., where he has been evaluating prospects for the NFL Draft since 1998 Prior to joining ESPN, McShay worked full-time for “The War Room,” (1999-2006), a start-up scouting publication created by former NFL scout Gary Horton. It soon became a crosscheck for 16 NFL scouting departments and a go-to-source of information for CBS and The Sporting News. ESPN purchased the business in 2006 and changed the name to Scouts Inc.

Well I don't necessarily disagree with your points I do want to point out that mcshay IS scouts inc.

for all you there could have been a mix up on the route crowd. http://eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/34769713 Also interesting tidbit from the article, Belicheat wanted the Giants to have to use Manningham instead of Cruz or Nicks on the final drive...