Leonidas

I remember the pick when I heard it that Thursday night (still angry about the draft format, but I digress). My dad calls me from Buffalo aghast and I think I had to talk him down off the roof. I always say draft for value when possible, filling in needs when you can. I didn't watch Spiller in college but the thought of taking a RB made me sick initially. We've drafted too many RB's high - McGahee 23rd(?) overall, Travis Henry in the 2nd, Lynch 12th overall - so I was initially against it. But he was widely believed to be BPA by far at that point, so I was on the fence about it once the pick was in (as opposed to the Aaron Maybin pick when I took a full beer and threw it against the wall and screamed out in primal rage). It would have been much worse to reach for a considerably less-talented player like Dan Williams or Bulaga at #9 overall, then paying him top money for his mediocrity. Props to you for owning up to your call though. If Maybin ever succeeds - and he won't - I will be the first to admit I was against it from well before draft day.

Would it make you feel better to argue over his salary like old times?

So you would have traded down no matter what, potentially getting next to no value for the #9 overall pick? Do you remember Mangini having the worst draft day performance in 2009 since Mike Ditka circa 1999, going home with a center, some bust WR, and a bunch of Jets' scrubs? Oh yeah, Erik Ainge was certainly worth trading down 18 spots. Technically, yes, you answered the question. I even like the idea of trading down. But in this scenario it's not an answer because you don't know what the market was out there for the pick. I'll tell you what - knowing now who was looking to trade up (San Diego, Philly) and more importantly what they were willing to give up to do so, tell us what trade you would have made and what selection you would have made. Fair?

That's a cop-out. He asked you who would you have picked, you say you would have moved down. But it takes two to tango. Would someone have taken the #9 pick off your hands? Certainly. But unless someone is looking to move up you won't get value for the pick. Remember Cleveland the year before trading down and trading down? They had the #5 overall pick, they went home with a center and a bunch of scrubs STers from the NYJ. This "I firmly believe the pick could have been traded" is bull ****. Man up and say who you wanted if it wasn't Spiller. McClain was drafted ahead of our pick tough guy so that one is out. If Davis was your guy then say so. Same goes for Morgan, Bulaga (a terrible pick at #9, IMO), or Williams (ditto this). I wasn't crazy about picking a RB first either but if you really are drafting for value then it's the right pick. Reach for need and you're spinning your wheels. But don't tap dance around the question - man up and call it as you see it.

I had the same thought as the OP. Edwards seemed to look at Roscoe forever for that long pass to him (not the TD). Something he should be cognizant of.

Just finished watching the game on DVR. Here are my thoughts on the game (not that most of you care, of course): Please spare me the excuses for poor special teams play; it's just bad. Plain, bad. The excuse that it's just scrubs...well, that's usually who's on kickoff coverage anyhow! This is a big concern and it's not going away any time soon. It's not just coverage units - it's return units too. I am less than thrilled with our new (old?) ST coach. Horribly officiated game - several no-calls on obvious holding calls, a bad phantom holding call early, and what was that PI called against Florence in the second half? Also, Lankster probably should have been called for one in the end zone. Speaking of, Lankster has the physical skills, but he doesn't seem to have the ball skills and as such is a liability in coverage. I don't think he's going to make the team. He's been burned for big plays too many times this off-season. Reggie Corner doesn't look good, but he looks better than Lankster (although I think Lankster has better speed). Now I understand why people hate Donte Whitner - he makes a horrible play (WTF was he doing during the first TD?), and then comes back and makes a great, physical play (hitting Cedric Benson, denying him a first down). He's drafted #8 overall and makes some big mistakes in coverage (just like he did vs. Indy and vs. Cincy already this year), but he plays well enough otherwise to start. He needs consistency, but if he doesn't have it by now, does he learn it? I'm not so sure. But he's been solely responsible for a touchdown each of the last two games, and even with Byrd out, you can't have that. I don't know if James Hardy makes this team, but if he does, it's not for anything he did this last game; he certainly didn't do anything against Cincy to help his cause - two drops and one penalty hurt his stock. Didn't look like his head was in the game. I hope he does make the team, he was a force at Indiana, and he's got great size and good enough speed, but he's got to show something against Detroit. Chad Jackson disappeared. He's my pick for "surprise" cut, especially after some people called him a lock for the #2 spot after the last game. McKelvin is another guy that needs to play with more consistency. He got abused by Chad Johnson on the 2nd touchdown, but played well otherwise. The kid is a talent. Chris Kelsay should only play in spot duty; he has no business playing LB. He's horrible in coverage. Wouldn't be surprised if he got cut, but ultimately he probably makes the team. Marcus Stroud played well, despite what the troll said before. Made some plays and looks like he's making the transition to DE very well. Can't wait for Shawn Nelson to get back. We need a playmaking TE on this team. Stup played well, but Nelson is a playmaker. Our whole offensive line looked shaky at times. Wood made some bad plays, as did Levitre. But Cornell Green is just terrible. D. Bell played poorly early but rebounded well against a very tough opponent in Antwaan Odom. I like Roscoe in on so many plays. I never understood why this hasn't been the case for years. We need to get the ball in his hands 5-10 times per game on offense. Steve Johnson might win the #2 job by default. You're asking a lot for Nelson to do it as a rookie UDFA and no one else is stepping up to take it, least of all Hardy. I'm sort of reminded of an old Giants game I watched when their #2 went down and they had Daryl Jones in the game and the announcers called him out on running "decoy routes." While I don't think that's the case with Stevie, I wonder how much Trent is going to look his way this season. Kept an eye out for Aaron Maybin, yet didn't see much. Someone tried to credit him with an "inside move" late in the game sacking Jordan Palmer, but that sack was McCargo's, Palmer was on the run at that point, and Maybin got lucky (the RT had no idea where the QB was at the time). That's not what an "inside move" is. I guess he also forced the intentional grounding by J.T. O'Sullivan, but I'll have to watch it again. Overall, I wasn't impressed by Maybin. He played a lot and showed a little. He certainly loves to celebrate it though, doesn't he? Did anybody else have the Bengals second drive completely erased except for the touchdown? Did that happen during the original broadcast, or just the replay? Edwards played very well. John Clayton's right, he'll never be elite, but he can be serviceable if he continues to play as well when the games really count. If he actually hit that bomb to Evans people here would be going nuts. He does look a lot more comfortable back there despite the line not changing much from last year. He's got to stop telegraphing his throws though (he did it twice to Parrish really badly). Our defense is going to be really, really bad this year. Run defense and pass defense. We have no pass rush and our LB corps might be the worst in the league. That's a bad combination. Fitz is almost certainly the #2. He's earned it. Brohm makes the squad, but I think he stays in the basement until TE gets injured. The Wildcat doesn't work if there's no threat to throw the ball. Direct snapping when Trent is out wide won't fool anyone come the regular season. I love Spiller, but he's got to be better in pass protection, especially with this line.

Come on dude, give me some credit. That's like the nicest thing I've ever said here!

Nice stuff PTR, thanks for the post. Now, the real question is, who shows up first in defense? PDaDdy, DarthICE, or Thurman#1? Should we take bets? My money is on that idiot, PDaDdy. I swear he's got an alarm that goes off every time Peters' name is taken in vain. Thurman#1 lives in Japan, he doesn't come on till late, and I think DarthICE is more likely debating whether to hang himself or just swallow a bunch of pills since Trent is going to be our starting QB opening day.

Adalius Thomas is most certainly out there. He's 33 now, just a little past his prime, and coming off a not-so-great stint with New England, but he should have been picked up a month ago IMO.

Adalius Thomas.

Why are people getting their panties in a bunch over this? It looks pretty accurate to me. Does anybody here think Trent has any chance of being 'elite' at this point? Most of us would settle for 'serviceable'. I do think he put Romo far too high, E. Manning a bit too high, and Schaub way too low. I think the Leinart/Anderson combo is even a bit too high - they've been terrible this off-season, and sadly enough I actually feel better with Trent under center than those two.

So much for that...

Just suck it up and order the dish. Order the premier package for $79.99/month, get a free HD DVR, free premium channels, and free NFL Sunday Ticket for five months, then switch down to the "choice ultimate" package (keeping the HD DVR) at $59.99/month for the rest of the first year. From there on out it'll be $88.99/month until the end of your second year when you can cancel and go back to cable.

What are you talking about? How is it a concern to let a seventh rounder who's gone 5-for-12 in three games for negligible yardage get put on the practice squad? Have you SEEN him play? How is he better than any other project in this league? And are you telling me that if Fitz and Trent went down we'd be just as well off with Brown under center as we would with Brohm? How does that help anybody? Considering they haven't even named a starter yet, and the likely starter is a concussion waiting to happen, I don't see this being the case. At this point I'd be quite surprised if they don't carry Trent, Fitz, and Brohm in that order. None of them have done anything to move them from their current spots. Brown gets PS'ed almost certainly.

I'm sorry, but Levi Brown hasn't outplayed anybody this pre-season. Barring a trade for Fitz, I don't think any of these three miss the final cuts. Brohm played well enough in the second game to make the squad. He'll probably get another opportunity against Detroit.

Thurman #1 may be a narcissistic !@#$, but at least he makes valid points. You're just a moron. It's like you hide in your cave and then once Jason Peters is mentioned an alarm goes off in your cave and soon thereafter we're all blessed with your version of logic. LT is not a promotion over RT. We have RT's in the hall of fame - were they just not good enough to play LT, or was RT their natural position? If you get moved from RCB to LCB to you automatically get a raise? Or RG to LG? Or SLB to WLB? Please. You sign a contract to play for a team, not to play one position and one position only. Even the Peters supporters have faded here. The media doesn't seem to be in love with him nearly as much as you are: http://www.courierpostonline.com/article/20100829/SPORTS02/8290380/Peters-knows-penalties-must-go http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20100803_Oh__what_a_terrible_mess_on_Eagles__O-line.html I haven't seen too much support for him on the Eagles chat boards either: http://www.700level.com/fansview/nosebleeds/13153/1.aspx http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7698575 All I remember is him being absolutely abused by DeMarcus Ware, and the JP fanboys couldn't rush to their computers fast enough to defend him...as if paying someone $10-11M+ per year doesn't mean you should be at least mediocre against top talent.

Maybe we should let him play a little bit before sending him packing? And maybe, just maybe he's not the savior so many here want him to be, but he's at least good enough to make the team despite only throwing one pass tonight? Not that I disagree with your first line, but your hate for Trent is a little silly (and also well documented). I know Brohm is the only one who hasn't shown a level of suckitude on this team, but it says something that he's really been unable to climb on top of this shitpile we have at QB - either Edwards (and even Fitz) really is showing him up in practice and at camp or else Brohm really hasn't shown anything to give the coaches a reason to put him out there with the first team.

I disagree. We should be keeping our talent, not getting rid of it. Let's not create any more holes than we already have. Isn't that the idea of rebuilding? By the time we can contend for anything Fred Jackson will be well over 30. He's the one that should be on the block. I still think we carry 4 RB's even if we only dress three for most games.

Again, completely baseless optimism. So we're going to run it down their throats like we did last year, with Fred Jackson's 57 yards in the opener? Or his 80 yards in week 15? We were ranked tenth last year in rushing. New England was ranked ninth. What's changed, exactly? And why was our pass defense ranked so high? Because teams ran up and down the field on us and they didn't have to pass, that's why. That's going to change this year with a completely revamped, rebuilding defense? McGee makes one tremendously athletic pick-six and now our defense is top-tier? Plus, how does McGee's interception equate to "shoving it down opponents throats" exactly?? No no, I remember, you "billieve." Yeah, say that enough times and it'll come true. Who cares if we've beaten them twice in twenty meetings over ten years...you "billieve." ...except they went 17-1 after the Spygate game. This is my experience to a T. Come on, that's hardly the same. Are any of those guys even close to over the hill? Maybe Moss has lost a step. You're talking about guys who retired ten years ago. I'm talking about guys who are near the end of the prime of their careers. That's a terrible argument to make. I don't worship the Pats. I hate them more than anything on this planet. But it's the same people here that homer-up and give all these BS reasons why this year is "the year" to beat New England. We got swept when they had Matt Cassell playing QB and he hadn't played a football game in years! This year we're rebuilding, our defense is in disarray, and we still have no QB. Sorry, the homers are too much here.

So because we don't have Dick Jauron anymore we're now going to beat the team with superior talent and still superior coaching? Sure, winning the turnover battle, running the ball, and controlling the clock help (of course we did all those things and still lost to Dallas on MNF, but I digress). But why would we do any of those things well against New England? Why would we turn the ball over less? Does Brady throw a lot of picks against us? Is Trent going to become a legit QB by then? Is he going to out-play Brady? Why do you think New England won't be able to run the ball this year? They've always been able to run it against us during years we WEREN'T rebuilding our defense, what makes it any better this year? And what's with the ball being forced down the field? Did you just get Dick Jauron and Mike Martz confused? Dick Jauron was as conservative as they come. You can say "I billieve" as much as you want, but you haven't given a shred of evidence to suggest we're going to beat New England this year. Just a reminder, remember 2007? Remember the beatings they handed down to us? Here was their offensive starting lineup then: QB Brady, RB Maroney, WR Moss, WR Welker/Stallworth, FB Evans, TE Watson, LT Light, LG Mankins, C Koeppen, RG Neal, RT Kazcur. This year: QB Brady, RB Maroney, RB Faulk/Taylor, WR Moss, WR Welker, TE Crumpler, LT Light, LG Connolly, C Koeppen, RG Neal, RT Vollmer. Will they beat us 56-10 again? I doubt it. But your optimism is completely unfounded.

I think he's saying they are $77 apiece but he's offering the pair for $80.

Wow, I stand corrected. That was one of those things I knew that I knew without even looking it up...and then it turns out, I was wrong. I could have sworn Huard came in first and was either hurt or pulled for being ineffective. I remember Michael Bishop being worthless and cut, but I thought Huard was above Brady on the depth chart. Ahh, oh well.

Please. They won a super bowl with friggin' Antowain Smith, they went 18-1 with Maroney, Morris and company while setting all sorts of records on offense, they have been a perennial contender for a decade, and you want to say that losing Corey Dillon is why they haven't won a super bowl since '04?

Okay, I'll bite. How did it backfire on them exactly? Could it happen? Of course. Monkeys could also come flying out of my ass, but I don't expect it to. For every Warner you give me, I'll give you fifty guys that flamed out immediately. In fact, who else is there besides Warner? Maybe Romo, although offered a contract with Denver, he spent his entire career in Dallas, so I'm not sure he qualifies. Look, I'm rooting for Brohm to succeed, but my making comparisons between him an Warner you're doing him a disservice. And there are too many people who are caught up in his college stats and name recognition that don't realize thus far he's been a tremendous bust, and if he doesn't get to the top of this pile of **** at QB his career is pretty much over.

You're a little too much of a homer for me. So many people here talking about weaknesses on the Pats, yet they've beaten us what, 15 straight times? It's embarrassing. There is no reason to think in this rebuilding year it's going to happen, certainly not after what happened last year on MNF.