Mr. WEO
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Posts posted by Mr. WEO
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What he should have said is, "The NFL doesn't value QB exclusively on how they did in college" or "College success ALONE is less important for QBs than most other positions in NFL evaluations." For the most part, any RB (for example) that excels in a major college conference is considered NFL material, and those that dominate in those conferences nearly always are considered prime prospects. That isn't necessarily the case with QBs.
Recently guys like Colt Brennan, Graham Harrell joined Heisman winners Troy Smith, Jason White, Eric Crouch and Chris Weinke as guys who were OUTSTANDING college QBs but weren't highly regarded by the NFL. Right up til the 2010 draft, there was debate about exactly where Tim Tebow would be taken. Many thought he was well overdrafted in the 1st, while others thought he was the best QB prospect in the draft.
It's pretty obvious NFL teams weren't as enthralled with Clausen as are many here. He wouldn't have slid so far had he been considered a can't-miss QB. Now, I understand if some want to criticize the Bills FO for not recognizing Clausen's talent. But I don't see how anyone would criticize the FO taking a player they like over a player they don't like. Taking a QB in the 2nd round simply for the sake of taking a QB in an early round is insane, if you aren't sold on that QB.
I don't disagree with this. And certain programs, like Fla State, Ohio State, Fla and Texas Tech will always struggle to have their QBs taken seriously becuase they struggle to become pros. But to say they don't pay attention to college career or performance is silly.
As for Clausen, the mediocre reviews circulated by "NFL insiders" were self-serving in that they relieved all teams of "blowing" a first round pick on him. They were essentially acting as hedge fund managers short selling Clausen--then hoping to pick him up much cheaper after they had forced down his value.
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I imagine Ellison will be on his way out. In any other scenario it would prob be Mitchell, but we need a guy w/ Mitchell's size on the roster.
That being said, I don't understand this sentence:
I understand Davis is the guy calling the plays and thus is seen as the most likely to start. But Poz is far and away the better player and he too is adept at play calling. Davis might just be calling the plays at the moment bc he is the only guy who has previously played in the 3-4. Regardless, there is no way Poz is out of the starting lineup. 0 chance. Mitchell's best shot is taking out Davis.
I agree, it's Mitchell vs. Davis. Davis has the edge in the 3-4 and liekly CG and staff watched Mitchell take a lot of plays off in the film they reviewed.
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If the no one steps-up at #2 WR, things could be very ugly offensively as teams stack the box. I'm not so worried about the OL, since a lot of what happened last year was unusual (Walker getting cut just before the season and the inexperienced/unprepared Bell getting the start with up to 3 other true rookies starting, Butler going down in week 2, all the injuries, bad coaching) and the coaching and schemes should be better. The QB's are the same and should improve with Gailey working with them. But if the running game gets shut down, it's all over.
You are correct.
If the Bills are forced pass, it's going to be a problem. In Pitt and Miami, the passing games under CG weren't any good (27th,26th,19th and 27th).
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Yeah, mostly because you'd actually heard of Leinart before he was drafted. My point was that teams have seen what a bust he's been given the chances he'd been given and the offense he had, versus his college production. And this probably led to a re-evaluation of a guy like Tebow, who had a similar pedigree, and who probably would have lasted well into the 2nd round had the Broncos not panicked and reached for him, based on erroneous reports that the Bills were "desperately trying to trade up to get him."
But hey, it's not his fault he was the 10th pick. I'm sure he'll do well in the UFL next season.
look, you made the silly claim that the NFL doesn't pick Qbs based on what they did in college.
Anyway, you may be more confused than usual-----Leinart is the starting QB for AZ. Your guy (the actual UFL star) moved up, by default, to backup QB in Oakland. Equating the two as busts highlights your poor position.
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Matt Leinart.
Leinart was a Heisman trophy winner and national champion who was drafted in the first round. Clearly "the NFL" didn't consider this when he was drafted, huh?
You should go back and reread your own original post.
Mentioning JPL, I was trying to help you out--he was clearly a guy who "the NFL" didn't consider what he did in college.
You can knock on Leinart all you wish----he is the likely starter after sitting behind a HOF QB. JPL sat (or was benched) behind such stars as Kelly Holcomb, Trent Edwards and Jamrcus Russell.
I still like my pick better.
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Yeah, but look at his average!!
What...7 isn't enough to matter?? But 21 makes you "the best in history"?
Come on---such a predictable response.
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Maybe you're right. JP Losman.
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Both regressed at PR in the last two seasons. However:
In the last two seasons, Hester has averaged 53 receptions and 3 TDs a season at WR, with around 22 yards per KR (38).
Roscoe has had over the last two seasons 13.5 receptions and .5 TDs a season at WR in that same span, with 23 yards per KR (13).
So, in Hester's case, he's upped his production at WR while losing his edge at KR/PR in TDs and maintaining a healthy KR Average over the two years.
In Roscoe's case, he's actually regressed at WR in that two year span, with both having less than stellar OCs.
Again, yards are good but TDs are great.
More good points. Hester became a WR, Roscoe didn't.
Again, in 2008 Parrish was hardly even a PR---only 21 returns! Fred Jackson was a better PR that year!
Nobody cares about an extra yard in his average--it does the team no good. It would have been better for him to have more positive returns at less yardage and fewer fair catches.
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The NFL doesn't go by what QB's did in college, otherwise Tebow would have been considered a great prospect and taken first overall (maybe they learned from watching your boy Matt Leinart?). All along everyone's been saying he would be a project. And McCoy's arm thrilled no one. Clausen was considered a top prospect and had a good year, but the Irish struggled and he was taken in the 2nd. Who out of them becomes a good QB remains to be seen.
There was talk of that, yes. Bradford's durability was a major concern.
They don't huh? wow.
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Over Roscoe's first four seasons, he averaged 14 yards per return (1,312 on 94 punts), which is certainly the best in the past 30 years.
Last year was a train wreck for everyone and I think being in DJ's dog house certainly affected Roscoe's confidence on letting balls go over his head. If he's feeling more involved under Gailey, I'm hopeful we'll see more from his return game as well.
BTW, Hester's averaged only 6.9 yards per PR the last two seasons, with no TDs...
Neither has been great the past two seasons--no points for pointing that out.
If last year was train, how about '08--he only had 21 returns......against 10 fair catches.
Average is fairly meaningless when the difference between the top players is a few feet---nothing that really impacts the offense.
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To see if he would be a worthwhile addition to the team? AND he's a semi-local.
As a point guard?
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Kelly,
You are absolutely right in saying how amazing Roscoe's been for us compared to greats like Upchurch.
However, with Hester, while he's ahead of him by a full yard per return, Hester is ahead of him by 4 PR TDs and 4 KR TDS, with Roscoe trailing him by a measly 2 TDs Rec and Running.
Not trying to be contrary, but yards are good - TDs are great.
You are right---and to go further....
In Roscoe's "best in the history of the NFL" year of 2007, Hester was the far better PR with far more returns and way more yards--it wasn't even close. Parrish had only 27 returns--and he only bested Hester in one category-YPR--and by a total of 2 feet! In fact, in 3 seasons, Parrish has only returned 53 punts.
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Yeah, because he couldn't elude or break tackles while becoming the best PR in the history of the game.
Roscoe is completely "coverable"--in fact, he gets plastered immediatley after the catch as WR. That's not a function of "not using him properly".
This "best PR in the history of the game" is a huge non story. This difference is a few yards and he returned relatively few punts, opting to let many go or fair catch.
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Seriously? After the second straight year leading the league (or even being very close) in injuries. That's when I started yelling for the last guy's head.
The first year is mostly dependent on the S&C program of the year before. It takes more than three months to re-make bodies. That's why rookies aren't in NFL shape till their second years.
But.....they took the TVs out of the weight room.....
I read somewhere that's what it took to prevent this type of thing.
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I don't recall anyone calling this a great year for drafting QB's, once Locker pulled out. And even then it was between he and Bradford, who was a begrudging first overall pick.
Yeah, this year's group (top 4) really didn't accomplish much in college.
Locker would have been the number one pick, if not Bradford??
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Well in this case I think it is true. Looks like there is some blue chip QBs coming out next year.
Unfortunately, when drafting a QB you never know.
Why do you say that?
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Just a casual observation from reading the draft banter every year. I can't remember the last time someone didn't think that "next year" wasn't the bumper crop of top flight QB's. And every year rolls around and the prospects fade and we hear about the next great class coming up the year after...
That's it.
This is a great point! Look at the crop of QBs everyone is trying to get us excited about next year ("much better than this years' group").
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I found this as intersting AND promising...
Pittsburgh’s offense ranked 7th overall and 11th in points, with Mike Tomczak and Kordell Stewart at QB. The season after Gailey left the Steelers, they ranked 28th.
In Dallas, the offense ranked 9th overall and 11th in points. The season before Gailey took over, the offense ranked 22nd overall, and 23rd overall the season after Gailey was fired.
In Miami the offense ranked 16th overall and 11th in points with Jay Fiedler at QB and Oronde Gadsden as their #1 WR
Gailey's offenses in Pitt and Miami did not rely on the passing game for scoring (they stunk). Hopefully he won't need to rely on our passing game (it stinks) to score this season.
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Do you foresee a holdout?
Not necessarily. You earlier claimed that "word is he reported in great shape", when, actually, he had not reported. And may or may not be in great shape.
And what, exactly would he be holding out for? His starting position?
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I have seen a number of posts that contemplate the Bills drafting Andrew Luck next year. First, I understand the excitement. I was at Stanford’s spring game last year when Andrew was throwing touchdown passes like Dan Marino in 1984. He is 6’4” 235 with a great arm – perfect size and arm strength for Orchard Park. As a freshman he threw for 13 touchdowns and 4 interceptions, with an average yards per attempt of 9. He was also second on the team in rushing, averaging 5.8 yards per carry. In addition, he has tremendous field awareness, footwork and accuracy. Andrew is a great kid, humble and a natural leader. BUT, please note two items:
1. Experience. Andrew has only played in 12 college games. Moreover, he played behind a dominant offensive line and handed the ball off to Toby Gerhart, the Doak Walker winner as the best running back in college football. Andrew may be good, great or terrible. It’s really too early to tell.
2. Availability. Andrew may not come out in next year’s draft. You may recall Andrew’s father, Oliver, who played at West Virginia and spent most of his 5 year NFL career as a backup to Warren Moon. Oliver is now GM of the Houston Dynamo after spending 10 years in an administrative position with the NFL. This family is not hurting for cash and the early-entry decision will not be driven by a need to support the Luck family.
Andrew takes academics very seriously. He was his high school’s valedictorian (class of 441 students) and is majoring in architectural engineering. If he stays for the 2011 season, Andrew can earn his degree. Also, Andrew’s sister Mary is starting at Stanford in the fall on a volleyball scholarship. Andrew is enjoying himself and receiving pro level coaching in college. He may not leave school after his sophomore season.
In sum, I share the board’s general lack of enthusiasm for our current slate of quarterbacks, but I am more focused on following the collegiate progress of Messrs. Mallett, Locker and Devlin in 2010.
I don't recall Andrew's father, Oliver.
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I've never drank alocohol and feel the need to trash someone's else hometown. In fact whereever I go, I always manage to have a good time. Instead of blaming booze, maybe you need to look in the mirror first. I give you a little props for apologizing because a lot of people wouldn't, but your original post was pathetic 5th grade material.
Geez, lighten up. They guy issued an apology (he didn't have to--he was just giving an opinion).
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The guy went to the wrong places (free bisons tix with dinner should have been your first clue), and it's the city's fault? Hilarious.
This is true--bottom line, why would someone enter this country to see the Bisons play? And then complain?
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LOL.
You are, however, a bit premature, WEO.
Firstly, he was drafted 8th overall.
Secondly, we only wheel out the "it's not his fault (he didn't draft himself)" thing AFTER someone complains that the Bills "wasted the #8 pick on him."
But you're right. Better to get it out of the way.
8th.....11th--the point is, he didn't ask to be drafted in the first round.
And..."he's just not being utilized properly".
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How much of that is a function of Rochester not having major league sports teams?
You mean all the other sports fans in Buffalo were at the Bills and Sabres games that night? Or the poor fans in Buffalo can't afford $6 Bison tickets?
Look, the Red Wings are so under the radar here. Nobody talks about them, yet they draw what they do. The excuses given aren't valid. Easily proven false.
Dolphins Owner says they are going to the Super Bowl
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Well, we certainly don't have to worry about our owner making such a prediction!
Whew!---what a relief.