Magox

I won't debate the interpretation of law or the constitution, because it isn't my strong suit, or will I even get to the political ramifications although I find it to be toxic. Everyone can find their own constitutional lawyer to have their own interpretation of the 14th amendment and from what I've read there are at least as many Conservative Constitutional lawyers that take the opposite view as many of you have. So with that said, if this were to be challenged, it would reach the Supreme Court and knowing that at least half the conservative minds side with leaving it as is and knowing that the liberal justices are all a bunch of activists, the court would rule at least 6-3 in favor at keeping it as it is. Kennedy and Roberta would side with the liberal Justices.

You guys know of Ben Domenech, right? I happen to believe he is a top shelf conservative critical thinker/communicator. Here is a great article on what has been discussed. http://thefederalist.com/2015/08/21/are-republicans-for-freedom-or-white-identity-politics/

Krauthammers take on this issue among other things. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/422864/donald-trump-deportation-republicans

Tell me how CEO pay and oil subsidies factor into the price of oil?

I've been easy on you, figured I'd at least see what you could contribute to the board. After further review, you are an idiot.

You can't help yourself from behaving like a mindless partisan putz, can you?

Link? I want to see the idiocy that you are referring to from Trump? As if the price of oil is an arbitrary figure determined by the oil companies. This guy is no free market capitalist, he is an autocratic player who practices crony capitalism that is a huge proponent to f interventionism. He's hoodwinking his followers. By the time his campaign flames out, his followers beliefs will no longer be recognizable of what it once was.

In order to have a reasonable FRANK discussion, we need to call out a driving force in Trumps campaign, which is this nationalistic nativist and very divisive tone and policies that he is proposing. I think most of us agree in what needs to be done, but the political will to do it gets destroyed by people who have this fear of illegal immigrants. Again, no one here or even the politicians from the right are advocating open borders. People want to secure the borders, that's not in dispute. What is holding up the process is what to do with the illegals here. You can do one of three things 1) deport them all home 2) let them keep staying here in the shadows not paying into SS and federal state income taxes or 3) Attempt to fix the system and give them legal status. Which means they couldn't vote.

Do you know what the term nativism means? It means that anyone who advocates policies that favor native inhabitants against those of immigrants. Now tell me how the policies proposed and rhetoric coming out are not of a nativist nature. In regards to calling some people xenophobic, don't get so easily offended. There are plenty of xenophobes in this country, look at Ozy, but he's actually much worse than that. Xenophobic is basically the fear of foreigners or strangers. It's not as malignant as it sounds. Plus Trumps opening salvo, that most illegal immigrants are rapists and criminals is by very definition xenophobia. And the fact that it was this rhetoric that is what initially attracted these folks speaks volumes. In any case just like the base of the democrats have plenty of religious bigots and have their own structural biases, so do the right. Let's stop pretending that it doesn't exist. Also, I didn't even believe you were initially referring to me until you mentioned me as a panderer. In which you couldn't even back up. Psss psss don't call someone something if you can't even attempt to back it up. I sure as hell can back up my declarative statements. You originals said " as opposed to pandering to illegals? I asked you, who and how? Specifics?

Did I call you a xenophobe? Or did you also say that most illegal immigrants are rapists and criminals and that you want to round them all up with their families and ship them all home. You do remember that Ozy was perfectly fine with exterminating them?

It doesn't serve your point to anyone who has the ability of reason. Keep turning a blind eye to what's really happening. Your post exemplifies what is wrong with the Nativist portion of the GOP. If you had it your way, you'd have "white only" strategy. Guess what, xenophobe? Minorities already believe rightly or wrongly that many in the GOP shares your views.

No, you're just a little kitty once confronted. Now answer the question, show me what part of my post, copy and paste it and explain to me in your Best Cro-Magnon interpretation specifically how I was pandering? Go

Of course you do, because you have the emotional depth of a pre historic troglodyte. Your hypocrisy is astounding, someone infers that you may be dense because you said something that was stupid and that there are a bunch of nativists and some xenophobes and all of a sudden your vagina begins to hurt. Buck up tough guy

I agree with this. The system we have now encourages higher tuition levels. There is major inflation taking place. The problem is how do you solve it? I just don't think minor tweaks will work. It's so out of whack we have to somehow figure out a way to reform the entire syste, and root out this inflation.

For someone who carries themself as the resident anti PC tough guy, you sure are thin-skinned. So who is pandering to illegals? How are they pandering to illegals, and be specific? And who is advocating open borders?

What are you, a retard? Who said open borders? Where has anyone advocated open borders? So by your illogical interpretation, I'd be considering myself a nativist? Are you really that dense to not be able to differentiate the advocacy of being for stricter border security, having a robust effort at limiting inflows of illegal immigrants into the country, having an inclusive message to the Latino community and granting legal status to the illegals that are here as opposed to saying that most of the illegals that come here are rapists and criminals, deporting them all home, all eleven million, and their families as well?

Funny, because the pandering that is happening are to the nativists.

Oh, they can debate it. Just not rationally

You have to judge JTSP's comments on a sliding scale where everything is in a parallel inverse universe. Hope that helps.

g What you call rant, I call facts. And what does I am am crow about NC mean? Did you even read what I wrote? I said they have a rapidly growing Hispanic population. Keep pretending the white only strategy is a winner. The Asians just 23 years ago voted for Replublicans with 65% of the vote. You wanna take a guess where that is today? Less than 30%. You obviously are one of these people who support shipping out these folks, you support Trump and you've made comments that suggest that it's no big deal to deport them home with fallacious comments such as 200 million people Americans support this And that there are plenty of states that would be ok with this. Which of course you mentioned Florida and Colorado. News flash, GOP loses Florida and Colorado, they lose the elections.

You are delusional if you think that is a winning message in Florida and Colorado. And VA and NC also have a rapid ly growing Latino population. You are flat out wrong. As we use to say back in my days in commodities, numbers don't lie. Just because you bought into his snake oil pitch doesn't mean everyone else has. And yes, it is ruled out, he is the most hated white man in among Latinos on the planet. That's not an exaggeration, he is. Oh and just the illegals huh? I suppose these illegals you want to uproot from the communities that they live in, their friends, coworkers and family members don't have any feelings about this. Are you this dense to believe that the rest of the Latin community doesn't see the xenophobic comments and insinuations from Trump and Coulter? When you refer to most of the illegal immigrants as rapists and murderers and that you "suppose" some are decent people, yeah. That makes you a xenophic demogogue of the highest order. Those comments were played on loop for weeks everywhere in Latin media. Even my Bolivian friends from South America were posting FB memes about this clown . Btw, did you guys check out that speech from Trump? Horrible

The Koch brothers have invested in a really good initiative called LIBRE. I love what they are doing. Take a look and here as well They want to help and educate Latinos about the benefits of being conservative. And they are making serious inroads, Democrats are worried about this initiative LIBRE. But this latest move by Trump, I guarantee you has more than set them back from all the gains they had made over the past couple years. Just like that. POOF. Gone Same guy, Daniel Garza who head's this LIBRE initiative. Considering that Koch Brothers happen to like Scott Walker, and Scott Walker recently endorsed Trump's plan, I assure you that the Koch people contacted Scott Walker and must have been like "Really? Really? That is the stand you are taking?" Which probably explains why Scott Walker is now backtracking on his support of Trump's plan. But he has become so spineless, he doesn't want to take on positions that go against the base but he also needs more money to campaign. Which is why he now is saying "I don't want to talk about this birth right issue, lets just secure the border and then we'll discuss it". Yeah, I remember how he criticized Romney from his perch every time Romney made a gaffe. He'd act all high and mighty like he would have been a better candidate. He's proving himself to be a dud. In any case, there is serious money and effort and educating Latino's on the principles of Conservatives. That's why when you see Trump and his band of nativists say the things they do, people like Daniel Garza, who heads up this Latin conservative initiative, are completely dismayed. They see all the work they have done over the past few years, the gains they are making, wiped out in a matter of days. And I share the exact same sentiment.

I appreciate the thoughtful response and I pretty much agree with everything you are saying. You are reasonable, but I also believe that there is a solid base core of the population, the talk radio peeps who don't want to solve this issue. What I mean by that is that they see Latinos as scavengers, criminals and future Democrats. The only solution they want is to deport them home and build a wall. Before they would have settled with just building a wall and increase border security. Now, thanks to Trump (even though it always existed inside) they want to deport them home and change the constitution. Rather than moving in a more constructive manner, we moved further away. You and I both know that just like that article I posted from the David Harsanyi, that is simply Porn for these folks. Not rooted in reality, only a feel-good measure that has no chance at ever happening. I'm dismayed with where this conversation has moved. I suppose it's because of my Latin roots, that I'm well in tune with the spanish community, I see the carnage that is taking place. I know this lady, who is a friend of my mom's that is one of my FB friends. She was a huge Romney supporter and we use to chat a little about that. This lady is in her 50's. Now I see her posting stuff about Republicans being racists and all this crap. She's even posting stuff about Bernie Sanders. I asked her just a month ago, what happened? She told me that she simply just doesn't identify with Repubs anymore. Now what got her to go from Romney to Sanders, that still confounds me and I didn't get into that. But I will say this, honestly, I feel like I don't identify with the personality of many of the people in the GOP. My economic and mental philosophy about personal responsibility will never allow me to vote for a leftist. I think more than ever we need a multiple party system. This two party system sucks, because I have more in common with a centrist democrat, even though they are practically extinct, then I do with people with hardline views. I don't relate with these folks. Maybe a 4/5 party system. Leftist, center left, center right, right and libertarian. I think it would be a lot better, the primary process causes politicians to pander to folks on the further wings of the party. Unfortunately the further wings of the parties tend to be much more active in politics, so they show up to vote for the primaries. Which is why Repubs still do well in non presidential year elections. It's just a matter of numbers. Right now whites make up about 62% and hispanics make up 17%. By around 2040, white people will no longer be the majority. Hispanics will be above 25% and considering that we are on a down trend due to the perception among Latino's of the non inclusiveness of the GOP, we are headed towards about winning 15% of those Latinos. You know what that means? Socialism You have to win these folks over. They will listen to the conservative message if they feel that they can be a part of the party. Latino's have many conservative traits but they just have to feel wanted. Which reminds me, this lady I was talking about. She is always posting stuff about Jesus and religious stuff. You gotta win them over, but you won't win them over if they feel like you view them as scavengers, rapists, free loaders and anchor babies. And so do the religious right. Guys like Santorum and Huckabee are family values, big government Repubs. They tend to be more compassionate with their policies that want to help the poor. It should be a big tent party, small government and big government repubs should all be part of the fold.

Get use to it, because the rhetoric coming out of the type of people you support are gonna turn this country into a leftist rainbow farting Utopia in no time.

Yeah. But, I've spoken to a lot of people who almost revel at the idea of wanting to deport these people back home. People who I know as ok people, but when it comes to this issue, their blood boils and they have no regard for the life they have here. Yes, they came here illegally, yes, there needs to be a solution to limit the inflow but by in large, they are good people just like you and me who want to better their lives. That's what makes the U.S the greatest nation on the planet. We have more people that want to come here to this country to achieve the American dream. In other words, the people that come are looking to be productive. Sure, there are some like the ones that are assimilated here that don't want to lead productive lives, but I bet you if there was an honest stat that indicated the % of immigrants that come to the country legally or illegally vs the people that are already here, that those that are coming here have a stronger desire to work. This debate makes me want to pull out my hair. I don't think a lot of you guys realize this, we are witnessing right now the structural collapse of the future Latino vote for Republicans. The rhetoric is ugly, I'm not one to cry foul on PC stuff, but with the emergence of Trump, it's like whoever says the most offensive comment gets Kudos for being non PC. Take it from someone who lives in Miami, who has tons of latino friends, who keeps up with mainstream latino culture. Trump is public enemy #1. And now half the GOP field is following down this rabbit hole along with him. They look like a bunch of pandering wimps. People say, "ah, look at Bush or Rubio pander to latinos". Think about that for a second. Pandering to Latinos? Hello, being anything that could be viewed as amnesty is TOXIC within the GOP. That's guts, not pandering. The panderers are people like Trump, Walker, Santorum and Carson among others. There is nothing easier in politics for a GOP candidate to have a hardline stance on immigration. I'm not going to lie to you, this whole debate, specially over the past couple weeks has now ventured into a whole new realm. And it's no bueno, for the GOP with latino voters. Cubans use to be solidly GOP. That's no longer the case. The younger cubans who don't feel the passions of their parents about the Castro regime don't have the allegiance to the GOP as they do. They look at the GOP as a bunch of white people who look down upon them. They see this debate about the "anchor baby", and while a bunch of people cheer on the politicans "YAAAA! Anchor Baby! " and they say "ok, !@#$ you". The decline of the Latino began during the contentious summer that Bush tried to pass immigration reform and the talk radio rhetoric was hot. That began the decline... Went from the low to mid 40%'s to McCains low 30%'s to Romney's 27%.....Where do you think it will be next election? The rhetoric is deplorable right now. It's worse than at any point that I can ever remember. Even if Bush or Rubio were to get the nomination, they'd be lucky to get 30%. The damage is done, now it's a matter of when does the healing part begin? The GOP has not hit rock bottom with the Latino vote, it's still sinking. That's why an immigration bill needs to happen. Take this issue off the table. I just wish the rhetoric would be more inclusive, but at the same time remain firm on the principles of sealing up the border. Taking action to limit the inflows of illegal immigrants and then doing something providing some sort of legal status to those that are already here. That would be the best thing not just for the GOP but for the country.