All_Pro_Bills

After watching Brady pick apart the Bills defense for the entire 21st century everybody here knows the only way to knock him off his game is to put pressure in his face consistently. Heck, even the family dog knows this! But our DC sticks to his comfort zone even after watching tape of KC drubbing the Pats with consistent pressure and the Bengals getting throttled using the same approach he dials up. And the HC is okay with that? Baffling. The 3-man rush. Raise your hand if you were 100% certain they were going to get a first down when you saw the Bills defense line up in that formation. Those 3 turnovers and sub-par offensive line play didn't help either. But Sully is right, in the big moment of truth the Bills came up empty, offense, defense, coaching. That's all there is to it.

Those two offensive PI calls on Watkins and Woods were really soft and I hate pointing out the ref's because the Bills did more than enough to lose the game on their own. But those calls were momentum killers when the Bills were driving to make the game interesting. Later, Gronk clearly pushed the defender off to catch the TD that was called back but for offensive line holding not PI. No consistency in the game and watching the muggings they let go in other games around the league yesterday (like Dallas/Seattle) the consistency is terrible. I've had enough of Spiller. He'll make an occasional great play but that fumble was unacceptable. The one thing you can't do there. Rather than do what he typically does, which is run out of bounds to stop the clock (especially when they are trying to kill the clock) he stays in bounds to get a few more yards rather than doing the smart thing and go out of bounds to stop the clock and save a timeout. Not resigning him will be addition by subtraction. Shwartz not bringing any pressure, and going to a 3 man rush in certain situations was the wrong approach. Bill in NY is right here on his OP. Pettine knows the Pats and would have come up with a better plan. Brady had too much time and that isn't what you want to do with him. With a bum ankle they should have brought more pressure. The Bills o-line needs to step it up. What I thought would be a strength this season is so far a disappointment and the weakest link. We're always blaming the lack of quality guard play Wood is at fault too.

Perhaps the carry the D coach off the field was over the top and inappropriate but if the Lions objected to it then Tate, because of his constant after-the-catch antics, was simply the wrong guy to deliver the message. That's how I see it.

I think we're 2-0 on FOX this season so this move might be a good omen.

True. Most of the detractors of the trade up were negative on it because they saw the Bills addressing the wrong problem. And not because of any issues with Watkins' ability and potential to star at the pro level. They expected the Bills to finish in the bottom third of the league because they didn't see Manuel as a viable option at QB. Getting an elite receiver would not solve the problem with production from the QB position. The move to Orton, barring any surprises, has solved that problem for at least this season. Because of the playoff drought some were down on the Bills in general. If the pick the Bills gave up in 2015 turns out to be in the 20 to 22 range that might alter the thinking somewhat.

I worry about covering Megatron but apparently his ankle is still bothering him. So that could be good news for the Bills secondary. I suspect he'll play but maybe a bit dinged up. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11633609/detroit-lions-coach-jim-caldwell-says-receiver-calvin-johnson-miss-sunday-game-buffalo-bills

I see these 'flaws' too and while there's always a chance he turns it around and becomes 'good' its not something that happens all that often. But to me what's missing from the conversation is something none of us can provide. That's an explanation from the Bills front office, current or former, what they saw in EJ that lead them to conclude that he either 'had' what it takes or that he could 'learn' to become a competent NFL QB. Why did they spend a #1 on this guy? What was their development plan? Is it still valid? Did Kolb getting hurt really set it all back? What's the plan now? I haven't heard a peep out of Whaley and while I don't expect the hear anything on the topic from Nix it would be nice to know what the thought process was at the time and the rational for making the EJ selection in round one of 2013. I don't expect them to come out and say we made a big mistake but what in the world did they see here?

It was a dumb play for sure, the kind of mental mistakes that lose games. And I had forgotten about it until I saw this thread but at the time I was yelling at the TV somebody touch the guy. The Bills ended up getting the ball back with 1:42 left at their 29. If anybody would have 'tagged' Foster down they would have gotten the ball back with around 2:50 left with one timeout and the 2 minute warning to stop the clock. That would have removed some of the constraints the Bills offense was forced to operate under in that specific situation. But the way the offense was playing I don't have much confidence the outcome would have been any different. They blew the opportunity to break the game open with the pick-6 play. 14-10 instead of 17-7 which should have been enough to win it.

I would use the terms reliable and consistent regarding Woods rather than best. If you're looking for upside potential then it's Watkins. If you're looking at previous performance in a pro system it might be Mike Williams. For shear speed you would think Goodwin. But Woods had a good rookie year and looks like the most consistent performer to this point in the season. Regardless, I am eagerly awaiting the remainder of the season to see what this receiver group can do with a QB that I expect to deliver the ball with a good level of accuracy, a QB that should be able to effectively distribute the ball to the playmakers and give them the opportunity to showcase their abilities.

EJ's problems are not due to a condition. Its due to his poor decision making process and his bad throwing mechanics. He needs to come to grips with this, subject himself to a lot of self inspection, criticism from everywhere, and come out of this demotion with a solid awareness of the problems along with an action plan and desire to correct them. This will certainly test his mental 'toughness' and as someone who has probably been a better athlete than most of the other kids growing up it might be the first time in his life that he's been told he's not good enough. He's probably going through the same feelings and emotions that somebody that gets laid off from a job experiences after many years of doing it well. A lot of people have been through that including me. You either mope around feeling sorry for yourself or pick yourself up and get motivated to move on. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger might apply here with EJ. Some of his issues are certainly correctable and with an solid support system he can improve. While there's very few examples of a young pro being pulled at this point in his career coming back and playing at a high level it shouldn't be viewed as impossible. I support Marrone's decision but I'm pulling for Manuel to face his problems, fight to improve, and come back better at some point. But I think the fault can be found by EJ taking a good look in the mirror.

This isn't a game I figured the Bills would win and I'm not sure if Orton replacing EJ at QB is enough to change the outcome. But maybe the Lions are due for a clunker or Megatron's ankle is still sore? But right now I say Lions 24 Bills 20

I'd be extremely surprised if Pegula comes in with some results based metrics to determine whether or not to retain the current coaching staff. I'd expect it to be based more of whether or not the program is headed in the right direction or not. Is there improvement and can we expect it to continue given another year of the same system with the same management and coaching staff? From a business perspective I think Marrone did more to prove his worth by making the decision to let Manuel sit and go with Orton now rather than later. Instead of being whishy-washy and waiting until the decision made itself later, at a time when it would be irrelevant to the outcome of the season, he made the decision now with 12 games left while there is a good chance to win enough to qualify for the post-season. Orton's performance will also give us some benchmarks to evaluate EJ. You remove one component from a system that is not functioning properly. If the system then performs correctly with that one component replaced you can assume that part was the cause of the faulty system operation. If Orton struggles then we're left with the quandry of trying to figure out if the new QB is as bad, if the OC is the problem, or if its the fault of the other players in the offense. My expectation is that after a couple games its going to be obvious to even the most casual observer that the offense is much more productive in terms of yardage and points and Marrone's decision is going to be proven right. And I won't be left to watch the Bills for the remainder of the season thinking the only way we win is if the other QB plays worse than ours!

The question with Pegula is who are 'his own people'? There's absolutely no guarantee TP is going to improve the situation by bringing in a completely new front office and coaching staff. Hopefully his first move will be to consult with some highly regarded personnel people like Polian. But I think Whaley has shown enough so far to warrant another season and I see a Bills team that is playing good ball minus the QB position. If we had gotten even average production from under center we'd be 3-1 for sure. In a game of percentages he's had enough hits to overcome the strike outs. Still his handling of the QB situation and the thought process behind it warrants some questioning. That said, I'll never understand what they saw in EJ that convinced them he was worthy of a #1 pick. By all accounts he was, and still is, a project with accuracy, mechanics, and decision making issues. My expectation is that Orton, while being no savior here, is going to play good enough to allow the players around him to perform at a much higher level than what they've been capable of with Manuel running the offense. I expect we'll see some 100+ yard, 2 TD games out of Sammy during the remainder of the season. We'll see if Watkins turns out to be a generational talent worthy of the cost.

Perhaps Bills management does not know yet but the trend is headed in that direction. I don't think anyone here advocating a change at the QB position has reached that conclusion based on an emotional evaluation. The numbers and the results support that conclusion along with some basic observation. It doesn't take a hall of fame talent evaluator to see EJ is struggling and could possibly benefit from a change. Can you honestly tell me this guy has any level of confidence at this point? To let him dangle in the breeze here just invites ruining him for good. So what should they do? Let the efforts of the entire team flush down the drain in order to evaluate if EJ can quarterback at a competitive level in the NFL, essentially wasting another year? Miss the playoffs again? Surrender a top 5 pick to the Browns for the Watkins trade? Give the new owner no choice but to clean house with the coaching staff and front office? Signal to a fan base that's sick and tired of waiting until next year that the team is content to wait until next year and that winning is a secondary goal and doesn't matter? The goal in the NFL is to win as many games as possible, make the playoffs, and work to win a championship. Any coach or manager that doesn't put that as job #1 shouldn't be working. With the way EJ is playing right now the only way the Bills win any games is if their quarterback plays worse than ours. That's a pathetic strategy. And given his low performance rating season to date its hard to imagine that happening. Maybe EJ can outplay Geno Smith given his recent performance but I have my doubts and if they maintain the current course we're looking at 3-5 at the half way point. Orton isn't the long-term answer but he's good enough to provide a measureable improvement. Enough to turn some of those certain future L's to potential W's.

Perfectly stated. As I said a couple pages back EJ is a project but this team is not. And starting Orton, a veteran with known limitations, is a better option to give this team a chance to win games now while taking some precautions not to ruin EJ here for the future.

Hackett is a guy that's learning on the job and that's not a good fit for an NFL offensive coordinator job. When you get to this level you better know what you are doing day #1. He's in over his head right now and this is on Marrone bringing in 'his guy'. EJ is still a 'project' in progress. The jury is still out on whether he progresses enough to be a competent NFL QB. But to me it doesn't look good right now. He didn't play a good game yesterday but I'm still not going to pin the entire loss on him. He had lots of help. But the bottom line is this... While EJ is a 'project' this team is not. This was a winable game with a play or two going the other way. This team is built with a defense, special teams, offensive skill players, and enough on the offensive line to win with a QB at the helm that can put 20 to 24 points on the board consistently. That's not something this offense is going to do with EJ under center right now. Its time to take some pressure off, let him sit and learn, and give this team a chance of getting to the post season while sending a message to the veterans. Marrone has got to be smart enough to understand the consequences of losing and new ownership. I don't see Pegula making the same mistake he made with going with the status quo with the Sabres. This team needs to win and win now. To me it's hard to watch the Bills knowing our best chance of winning is only if the other teams QB plays worse than ours. And blowing chances to get a 'W' in games like this is going to prove costly in the fight for a playoff spot come December.

You knew coming into the game that Watt and the Houston pass rush was going to give the Bills line trouble. But I didn't see Hackett design anything unique for this game to counter that or perhaps focus on the run game against a defense giving up 5.5 yards per rush so far this season. A steady dose of FJ to the tune of 25+ carries (he got 7) was called for here and we didn't get that. The call and outcome on the red zone interception was a flashback to the KC game last season. A game where you were running all over the defense to that point. If that's your go-to move then just kick the FG on 3rd down. But if you want perfect pass protection and receivers running clean routes and never dropping passes you can make me the QB and I'll hit 60%. I'm afraid that EJ just doesn't have 'IT'. And the players know that too. Just seeing their body language tells you the story. Your QB has to make a play or two during the game that makes the difference. Some here believe time and experience are what's needed for him to develop into a competent QB. So at this point it looks like we're going to spend this season and maybe next finding out that's not going to happen. We have a playoff defense, good special teams, and a good group of skill players on offense. There's no way we go into Detroit next weekend and come away with a win based on this week's offensive performance. And then there's NE next. How does a 2-4 look and a win against the Vikings and a loss to the Jets to finish the first half of the season at 3-5? Make the change now before its too late for this year.

I want to see some 'speed' packages with Watkins, Goodwin, and Spiller split out. Utilize these 3 players with elite top end speed to pressure the defense mentally and physically. Linebackers aren't going to cover Spiller and you should be able to set up some mismatches and single coverage without help over the top with the defense. If they go to the nickel you can shift back to the run against 6 or 7 in the box instead of the 8 we're seeing now with the offense designed to set up a 3rd and 7 after 1st and 2nd down runs up the middle for a total of 3 yards. Look at what Chip Kelly is doing in Philly. Along with operating at a faster pace he's designed the offense to set up mismatches in space that favor the offensive player. That's dictating the pace, terms, and matchups of play to the defense. We have the receivers to do things consistent with that philosophy and it might even simplify read and recognition for EJ and get him into some kind of comfort zone which it is obvious he isn't in now.

McKelvin, he consistently catches punts but drops interceptions. Can't fugure that one out..

The implilcation would have been it was the Eagles that reached on a 1st round pick rather than the Bills and they'd have probably picked a different 'project' QB later in the 2013 draft or in 2014. And we'd probably still have Fitzpatrick under center which might be have been sligtly better as far as offensive productivity. I don't expect it but if Fitzpatrick lights up the Bills defense on Sunday this board is going to go Bill-istic!

I too hope EJ works out but why did the Bills braintrust 'reach' for a guy they more than likely could have picked in the 2nd and maybe the 3rd while using that 1st rounder to address another area? I seriously doubt any other team had Manuel rated as high. To me that's an element of the evaluation of his performance. From where I sit, he just doesn't play the position the way I expect a 1st round choice to play and while others claim to 'see' some incremental improvement I am not so sure. I think many of the negative views on EJ are judged not solely on his performance but his performance relative to where he was selected in the draft. If he was a 3rd round choice would we judge his performance in the manner we do or would our views be adjusted to expectations of a 3rd round choice vs. a 1st round choice. The way I see it part of the frustration and disillusionment is the inability of this organization to identify and acquire a competent player at the QB spot. And I think we take out some of that frustration on EJ when he just is what he is.

Here's the truth they never mention about cities where there's 'a lot to do'. 99% of the people there don't do any of those things.

Appreciate the time and effort you put into your analysis and I agree EJ is a 'project'. But here is where I differ. A project is a series of steps that reaches some objective. In this case taking a 'raw' QB talent and transforming him into a competent NFL starting QB. So you should be able to measure progress using some kind of assessment. So given a full off-season of workouts, working on mechanics, soliciting input from other QB's, working with his receivers, rehabing injury, studying film, the playbook, and working on the mental aspects of the game, along with a full 5 game pre-season and training camp, what measureable progress do you see? I still see a guy that throws an occasional good ball with good mechanics and footwork but the majority of time he has bad mechanics, poor throwing motion and lousy footwork. I see a few good accurate throws but mostly high and behind the receiver, generally off target. His screen passes are terrible for example. I don't see a QB that has a better handle on pre-snap reads, or works through his progressions effectively unless he's got perfect protection. So what improvements does anyone see between his last few performance of last season and the three game so far other than they are 2-1 this season to date? Because what I see is a QB that shows flashes of good play but generally substandard performance and there isn't any measureable improvement between this seasons work and last seasons.

I expect EJ to be able to execute some basic throws with consistency and accuracy. This is not really too much to ask for from somebody coming out of a major college football program. Like consistently hit an open receiver on a 5 yard crossing pattern placing the ball in front of the receiver, at shoulder level, and hitting him in stride rather than throwing the ball high and behind similar to the throw that almost got Goodwin killed yesterday. I expect the QB to be able to execute a screen pass that doesn't require the running back to jump with arms extended to catch a high, floating pass that allows the defense to close on the play which turns a potential 10+ yard play into a 3 yard play. I expect the quarterback to be able to consistently execute basic 15-20 yard throws rather than miss wide open receivers high and wide. I expect a QB that is said to have 'arm strength' to be able to deliver the ball with velocity and 'on a rope' vs. floating a flopping spiral that's up for grabs. What I see instead is a QB that is not showing a lot of positive body language and a throwing motion more like a guy trying to 'aim' a football through a tire at the carnival rather than the delivery motion of an NFL quarterback.

The Houston game is winable but there's no way this team goes into Detroit and comes away with a win unless they get better play out of the offense and more production out of the QB position. 10 points isn't going to win many games. And while I'm down on EJ because of his accuracy and checking down way too much there are other issues here. The coaching staff has him overthinking and fearful of mistakes. So they need to take the training wheels off and let him take some chances, rely on his instincts, get him into space more, etc. Maybe its my limited understanding about offensive game planning but the approach to the games over 3 weeks seems way too vanilla and conservative to me. Whatever it is, just by watching you can see EJ is not in any kind of comfort zone. They need to open things up vs. all the runs up the middle calls. As another poster mentioned before at the end of the game they're down 2 scores and are content to dink and dunk down the field looking to lose 22-17. You are going burn the entire clock and lose doing that so there's no reason not to take the risk of pushing the ball down the field. You need to get yards in chunks. And if you mess up and the final score ends up 29-10, so what? You lose anyway without trying. This is another indication of playing scared. In this case you're scared to lose by more than 12 points. Look at Denver. They went down the field in 6 plays for 80 yards in 41 seconds and no timeouts yesterday to tie the game and send it to overtime. They ending up losing but that's not the point. We don't have Manning but the coaches need to let the players know they believe and let them go for it. If the coaches don't believe there's a chance that EJ can lead them to a quick TD score, maybe special teams recovers an onside kick, and he drives them down to win 24-22 as time runs out then how is he supposed to believe in himself? Marrone simply conceded the game after the safety