thebandit27

So you want a DC that prefers corners that can tackle to corners that can cover? Hey, idea of the year: let's play Zach Brown at corner, since tackling is what we REALLY need on the boundary! Let's hope our next HC doesn't think that way.

Please... Budda Baker - S/Washington

Apparently I don't blame them--if it really was that hectic, then some of what we saw on a weekly basis (wrong # of guys on the field, completely blown assignments, etc.) makes sense. I hear you; I just can't fathom why they'd change things so drastically. Again--it's about coaching the 11 you have on the field, and not being so rigidly committed to a system.

I said that--and it was the only thing that made sense. It would be (was) criminally stupid to bring him in if his plan was to change everything again.

I could not disagree more. In a perfect world, I'd like my corners to be shutdown against the pass and to be excellent tacklers. Approximately zero guys like that exist in the NFL, so you need to optimize. For me, corner is about coverage ability...period. A good tackling corner is a bonus. And I think you're misinterpreting my statements about Brown. I'm not one of the folks judging Gilmore off of one game--this is about his entire body of work. Brown managed to catch a 40-yard pass against Darby that game, so clearly it wasn't a case of inability to throw the ball. If I wanted to make my case about Gilmore from one game, I'd choose the work he put in against Beckham last year. Once again, 2 catches (plus 2 personal foul penalties that managed to elude the officials live, but got him fined later that week)...but again, that's not how I view players. The point is simple: we don't look through a straw to grade players. For every time someone comes in here and talks about one or two games--or better yet one or two plays from another slate of 14 games--I can point to the 90% of the time when he's excellent. And so I say again: 2 TDs allowed and a 67.7 passer rating against--including the craptastic performances against the Jets in Week 2 and NE in Week 8. For a guy who's primary job is to defend opposing receivers, that right there gets the job done.

I haven't gotten past my initial round of work-ups on pass catchers yet, so not really ready to opine beyond the obvious guys like Corey Davis/Mike Williams/OJ Howard

I think he's good, yes...just not in the same class as the other 3...but we're well into opinion turf on that one.

Nobody is arguing that he's a good tackler...and regardless, that's not what I pay my cornerbacks to do; I want my corners to cover well. Re: Pittsburgh, they were close to their season average of 37 attempts per game against Buffalo, attempting 31 passes. It's quite telling that in the 18 coverage snaps that Brown played against Gilmore, he received only 5 targets (versus 6 in the 13 coverage snaps he played against everyone else), and caught only 2 balls. This is the type of critical analysis that folks seem to miss when evaluating cornerbacks. As to tackling, there are probably only 3 corners in the NFL that I would consider to be very good tacklers: Butler is one of them; Jason Verrett and Aqib Talib are the others.

You should be able to go to the OP, hit edit, then hit the "use full editor" button...

Well, you could argue that because the team faced the fewest pass attempts in the NFL, the resultant number of coverage snaps he played bring the cumulative total of his numbers down, sure. That would not, however, account for the fact that his passer rating allowed was lower than other "elite" corners, nor would it correlate to him having more INTs than guys like Sherman--who faced more pass attempts.

You think someone will give him a 2-year, $27.5M deal that is fully guaranteed?

Posts like this are the exact type of make-stuff-up content that add nothing to the discussion. Good thing this doesn't happen practically every week... http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/watch-eddie-lacy-steals-ezekiel-elliotts-move-hurdles-cowboys-defenders-twice/ http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/9/18/12960756/watch-patriots-rb-legarrette-blount-hurdles-over-a-dolphins-defender-for-a-big-gain http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000709935/Ezekiel-Elliott-hurdles-defender-for-14-yards http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/10/nfl-david-johnson-arizona-cardinals-hurdle-panthers But as is customary with this board: Gilmore is the only DB in the NFL that ever has negative plays. Ever. Correct. For comparison: https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-why-beasley-rodgers-and-other-top-players-didnt-make-pffs-all-pro-team/ 2. Patrick Peterson, CB, Arizona CardinalsPeterson routinely has as tough an assignment as any corner in the game. He will play a lot of man coverage, and is one of the few corners asked to track receivers all over the field – including to the slot. As a consequence you often have to weight his performance in the light of other players that have an easier role within their defensive scheme, and in the past it has been enough to leap him above players into PFF All-Pro and Pro Bowl teams, but not this year. Peterson has been good this year, but he has allowed as many touchdowns (three) as he has interceptions, and allowed 60.6 percent of the passes thrown his way to be caught, a career high. When targeted he allowed a passer rating of 80.7, which wasn’t bad, but ranks 30th in the league and not in the same ballpark as players like Aqib Talib, who led the NFL at 47.0. ------------------------------------------------ Gilmore had more interceptions, fewer TDs allowed, and a lower passer rating against than Patrick Peterson, and yet I'm reading about how he has average coverage skills.

Sammy, Powell, Listenbee, and Easley IIRC

I'm as big of a Baker-booster as believable on this board (yay for alliteration!), and even I think that'd be a reach at 10. This offseason is basically Whaley unleashed...he better get things right.

Not sure if you didn't see him play this year, but he gave some pretty good corners fits. He had 4 catches in the first half against Josh Norman, and had his way with the Giants' big-money secondary.

I wonder what craziness they might try in the wake of a Tyrod release...

Dude, if we get King in rd 2 I don't care if we play him at nose tackle 😎

If you were so focused on facts, then why look only at the Jets game and refuse to acknowledge the rest of the season for contextual purposes? You know what that's called? Confirmation bias. Interesting that you would cast such an aspersion without recognizing it in your own argument. It's a lot closer than you think, even though I agree that Sherman is better. The point is this: if we evaluate every corner the same way this board does with Gilmore, then we'd hear about how Sherman is "average at best" because he has fewer INTs, fewer tackles, more TDs allowed, and got roasted repeatedly by Robert Woods on MNF. But, when we take his entire body of work into account, he's an excellent player. Unfortunately for discussion's purposes, many folks on this board miss the part about context and body of work.

5 targets in the 18 pass routes he ran in the 31 plays during which he was matched against Gilmore--just clarifying

It's obsession...with having to debunk false narratives. I was among the first to call out his horrendous play against the Jets and Patriots, so your supposition that I am somehow biased in his favor is simply wrong. I call it like it is, and it rankles me when folks can't see what's right in front of their faces, choosing instead to perpetuate a myth about a guy's level of play. I do the same with any player, in any direction. If someone tries to tell me that Zach Brown had a great season, I'm going to point out the dozen or so times that he missed his assignment in pass coverage, etc. Stick to the facts and build opinion off of that--not the other way around.

No, I got the joke--it was lame as a joke, but even lamer as a response Thanks for the rankings from 6 weeks ago--great stuff PFF's grades often don't match up with their own advanced stats. They themselves have Gilmore at 2 TDs allowed and a 67 passer rating against. Yet somehow that doesn't compare to Sean Smith, who routinely gets abused in coverage. Ever remember Gilmore allowing a 98-yard TD? Yeah, me neither. Find me another corner with those numbers...believe it or not, it'll bolster your stance better than a lame joke.

I am not going to lie: that's the biggest cop out that I've ever seen in a debate...anywhere...on any subject. Thanks for admitting that you have no salient point here whatsoever Hey, every now and then you have to let a dude know

More like you are trying to use one (or two actually ) bad game to marginalize an entire season of great play. Anyone that looks at his numbers and calls him average is loony. 2 TDs allowed all season and a 67 passer rating allowed. Average? Who had more tackles this year: Gilmore or Richard Sherman? Who had more INTs? Who had a lower passer rating allowed? Who allowed more TDs? I eagerly await your response.

Just FYI, that's a passer rating allowed of 67.7 http://www.csgnetwork.com/quarterbackratecalc.html

Imagine Richard as HC, Bradley as DC, and Lynn stays as OC...