May Day 10

Relocation fees too. Also likely some private money going into a facility. Along with proving that WNY taxpayers havent been willing to work with the NFL (which is one of their written conditions of relocation) Its still possible someone can come done with little regard for $ and just plunk it down to grab a team. I am happy and relieved its not an "empty netter" and our team wont be the lowest hanging fruit

in 7 years, LA could have team(s) already, the NFL may be open to expanding, etc. Its a long time in terms of the NFL.

The NFL Relocation rules also say that there needs to be a situation where the public wont help finance facilities. Not sure how they would prove that, when the public is giving them what they asked for

This makes me feel better about the Bills' future than I have for about 5 years

a lot better than I expected, for sure

Thinking about it, that 7th year is a pot shot and really scary

this would pretty much extinguish the LA flame. Cant move there really until 2020?

i disagree that people hate the Toronto game due to the border... they hate it because it is a bigger, nicer city who is hoping to use the series to covet an NFL franchise of their own, who would likely be the Bills. That is a good point about internet tix, but I have seen it work the positive way for the Sabres. I also agree about the fans becoming complacent after prolonged success. That is a problem many places, including "Hockeytown". The Bills last won a playoff game when I was a Junior in High School. Im 34 now. Im not too worried about prolonged success yet. I also dont want to sell ourselves short on the ability to host an NFL team. I remember New Orleans had the same issues. They win, and magically they have perpetual sellouts and are off the radar. All the Bills have to do is win. All the problems will fix themselves and gimmicks wont be needed.

That is the thing that they love to throw in our faces... But that was 20 years ago. Times have changed, and the entertainment ticket industry is completely different now. First of all, the Bills draw from a wider area and the NFL is more popular now than 20 years ago. They love to tout the # of Canadian ticket holders, and I dont believe they were there in the early 90s. They also were here before and not because of the Toronto series. The Camp in Rochester did help a bit there. The Stadium is smaller. Internet ticket sales have changed everything. People impulse buy tickets in seconds. There is also the resale market. If people are confident the team has a chance, more people would buy season tickets without the certainty they would be "eating" as many as 3 pointless games (as I currently do). Many people buy tickets for resale and it wouldnt be any different. When the Bills show promise, I have people contacting me left and right to see if I know of any extras (which I dont). The Jets game last season was cold, and I know a lot of people shut out as the cheapest ticket on the hub was $100. A Division with Cleveland/Pittsburgh would have helped

He has been with the team for 17 years, the exact period since the last playoff win. Obviously all of it is nowhere near his fault. There is a correlation IMO between his rise in power/promotion in the organization, and the devolution the franchise into a complete hopeless joke. I still believe as President/CEO he continues to have a strong say in personnel matters. The hiring of Nix was to get fans off their backs. It was peculiar how many times Wilson stressed "General Manager of FOOTBALL" in the press conference, echoing the exact complaints of the fans. This is why we get people like Levy, Nix, and Gailey as the "best" the Bills can do. They are the only ones who would be willing to allow upper management to have their way. There are a lot of opinions/observations in there, I know, but it is a message board. The reality is, Brandon has been trusted with the organization by Wilson. He is Wilson by extension, and he is teflon. No way he gets fired. If there was a petition with 1,000,000 names, it would end up in Russ Brandon's waste basket.

^^^ Good thoughts. I think it is very obvious this series was nothing more than a nice pay-out for Wilson, and a dress rehearsal/display that Toronto was ready for the NFL for the Rogers side. There are plenty of "customers" these days who would buy up the "inventory" if they could remain competitive past Thanksgiving.

1st point - Rogers was paying for the NFL. No primary interest in selling the Bills/buying the rights to one Bills game. 2. I have lived in Philly, NE, and NYC Areas. Those teams have crazy marketing. Color posters, schedules, cheerleader stuff, etc in the newspapers every week, HD TV shows on local networks in primetime, better commercials that get you excited about the team, etc. 3. NFL is at an all time high. Buffalo fans are very good. Selling the NFL is simple. Especially in Buffalo. Take the Sabres. Early 00s, tickets were lowest in the league, nobody was going, nobody wanted to buy the team, many of us figured that was it, we were too small-time to hang on to ML sports. Golisano bought the team, created price structure, reconnected the team with its past and believed in Buffalo. With a little success, people came back in droves. Canadians are helpful, but so is the territory. They are helpful in all facets here, including the Bills without the Toronto series. For perspective, now, I pay more per ticket for cheapies for 41 Sabres games (and preseason), than I do per ticket for 8-9 Bills games. And there is a waiting list... and the tickets are no longer close to the cheapest in the NHL. If the Bills were competitive, the tickets would sell themselves w/o Toronto games. Even December. Due to: Popularity of the NFL in general, increased fans in Rochester, Ontario, a hungry fan base, smaller capacity, ease of internet sales, and stub hub resale potential. To me, he is making excuses for the organization being a failure from the Owner through upper management, while defending the obvious money grab/attempted phase out to Toronto. And people buy this and defend it. A "marketing genious" doesnt market their product by making their customers feel crappy.

As far as a petition goes. It essentially is on Brandon to fire himself. He is locked in as locked can be until there is a new owner.

The contents of this thread is the exact reason I loathe Brandon. He has so many Bills fans convinced that Buffalo isnt good enough for NFL football and the fans fall short. He often points to December games from 20 years ago that are not relevant in 2012 whatsoever. To me it is a slap in the face whenever he brings that up. There is no marketing effort at all in WNY and the team stinks.... and they still are extremely profitable. There is Canadian support and it has naturally occurred. Mainly due to the gameday atmosphere. Toronto series does nothing. Nobody likes it and puts Bills 'home' games in a bad light.

If they didnt have the Toronto deal, is Wilson selling the team? Is this game that everyone in Buffalo and Canada seem to hate really regionalizing the team? Anywhere near to a point where some random investor will think its a great and profitable idea to buy the team and keep 7 games in Buffalo and 1 in Toronto due to profit?

$7.73 a ticket. $78 Million / 8 games = $9.75 Million/game They say its "double" what they make at RWS = $4.875 Million So a 5 year deal at the same rate for 1 regular season game would be $541,666 spread out over the 2 preseason games and 7 regular season games. $541,666 / 70K fans = $7.73/person. Which would gladly be paid if they werent such an amateur organization. Look at stubhub, etc during their start in '07 or last year. It is also worth mentioning they do next to zero marketing in Buffalo/WNY Also worth mentioning the new deal will likely be less than the same price/rate. Likely there are some holes here, just crunched this out. Edit: it is shared, what 60/40. So it would be closer to $10 a ticket.

without the series, does Ralph move the team?

He gets this pass as a marketing genious, but I dont see it. Moved camp to Rochester and kind of changed camp for the whole league (would have happened eventually anyways). But what else do they do for marketing? We get one crappy Stevie Johnson commercial that airs for 9 months. No Bills TV shows, no posters/schedules, etc in the paper, no nothing. I have lived in a few other NFL cities and the Bills do NOTHING in the way of marketing. I also dont buy that he stays on the 'marketing/business' side. He is the President. He was out to dinner and in meetings trying to covet M. Williams. I believe he has a large say in personnel and that is why we get people like Nix/Gailey who can/will live with that. There are a million different ways to market to Toronto and I will never be convinced the series is anything more than a money grab for Wilson, and a dress rehearsal/foot in the door for Rogers. WTS, Brandon is iron clad until/if a new Buffalo owner takes over

there are 100 ways to market to Toronto that are better than holding a stale, sterile game there that doesnt represent the Bills of NFL whatsoever

I get the point of continuity, if you have a good head coach. "Continuity" is not required though. Look at all the teams in the league who manage to improve within a year or 2 of hiring a new head coach (See: Pretty much everyone)

I think this might be the only possibility of Chan getting fired. It would also let Nix off the hook. He has supported him and said his job is safe.... but if he isnt the GM, he cant make that decision.

Im usually a pessimist, but the quality of athlete we have isnt even close to 3 years ago.

here is my "aggressive" take 1. Nix gracefully steps down or out, letting Whaley take over, which allows 2-3 to happen without losing 'face' 2. Gailey is fired 3. The Bills either pick a QB to start, or pick up an existing QB They have on the radar (Mallett? Flynn? Smith?), or both. 4. Hire Chip Kelly, or someone who will create a winning, go-get-it culture. 5. Find a LB "Captain" for the defense (Teo? Maualaga?) 6. Find a good WR.

this quote struck a nerve and the reason I hate this: "Problem part two — it all began to seem pointless once it became clear the NFL never intended to push the sale of a team into Canada. Rogers thought they were paying for a test drive. Instead, they bought a five-year long tease" People of Toronto would hop on if it was their own team. I dont see them becoming Bills fans. I dont see people in Buffalo jumping from the Yankees, etc to the Blue Jays due to the Bisons' affiliation. The Bills have Southern Ontario fans. It is increasing not because the Series. It is due to the strengthened Canadian dollar, the allure of the WNY shopping, increased awareness and popularity of the NFL (aside from the series), and the gameday experience at RWS. There are numerous ways the Bills can market to Ontario without playing a game that diminishes what the Bills stand for. They can start with winning. Im not so sure this thing is getting extended anyways

While I respect the importance of Canadian ticket buyers/fans to the Bills, and also their importance to WNY as a whole.... I havent seen any evidence that this "series" has created any Bills fans from Toronto. There are plenty of other ways to market to Southern Ontario that would yield the same results. Canadian fans prefer to go to games in Orchard Park, and the Canadian draw is fine without this series. In fact, it is a horrific representation of NFL Football and the Buffalo Bills I also believe that if/when there is a new local owner, this series will not be continued.