May Day 10

really? http://www.denverpos...-just-also-rans looks like many teams struggling at the gate http://espn.go.com/n.../_/sort/homePct I can go on ticketmaster right now and buy tickets for Sundays games in Cincinnati and New England and by my count it is "legitimate" sellouts: NE, CAR, and BALT. I cant believe our "marketing genious" GM is making us defend ourselves the league's marketing arm successfully portrays a false image of 100% sellouts which is not the case and # of games is insignificant. The Sabres normally sell out 41, or as close as possible without a great product... only because they have been relevant in the past decade Attendance dropping and shows plainly that winning teams sell out, and teams that stink dont http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-attendance-numbers-dropping-football-losing-popularity-fans-025400400--nfl.html

I cant argue too much against it... but there are also Detroitses Clevelandses and New Orleanses out there. I think in the NFL there is enough for everyone including Buffalo. At some point the bubble will pop and they will need the heritage and the fans. I think it was a mistake to allow the Jets to hit CNY before Buffalo and unopposed.

I do notice much more pot-shots taken by the media up there and certain people. They like to hold the "Sabres and Bills only exist because of us" over our heads. I also remember being up there when Gilmore was drafted and the paper was basically saying he looked unhappy and speculated that he was unhappy because he was drafted by and had to go to Buffalo. I love Canada/Toronto however. The Rogers Centre is a dump, and I will never support Bills games up there*. Other than that, its cool *if the NFL schedule goes to 18 games, I think I can live with a Home and an Away game.

We can wordsmith this all you want... but in my opinion, you cant scream bandwagon if the team hasnt won a playoff game in nearly 20 years, hasnt even made the playoffs in 14, and has finished better than .500 one time in that period and that was after a terrible start and was fueled by a late run against every bad team in the NFL. How many meaningful games (being the last team listed "in the hunt" doesnt count) have they had after Thanksgiving in the past 14 years? Nobody can truly say for sure that the ticket sales would be the same if they somehow become competitive. In my opinion, for the reasons I stated above, (and what I think is common sense), ticket demand would increase dramatically. I also think if we experience a few good seasons, a few bad, a few good, and so on, the demand would stick (like with the Sabres). The Sabres draw 19,000 a game for 41 games at fairly high prices. All the Bills have to do is bump the demand up past the capacity point for the season (which would happen in 1-2 "good" seasons). Then people (and yes, bandwagoners) would be desperate to go, resale would be high, and many more people would buy tickets even to flip a few (or all). If they start out with a few wins next season, check out stubhub pricing. The fact that Bills fans join Russ Brandon in putting down this fan base is disappointing. It is amazing that we draw what we do at this point, even if prices are low.

That was 3 decades ago NFL is much bigger now Lesser capacity Internet ticket sales Regionalization. Didn't even get to rochester at that point. When the team starts out well... many many people ask me about tickets. All my friends who have tickets use theirs. Stub hub prices get very high. They need to become relevant and sell out the season to create a feeling of perpetual sellouts so people are scared to lose their season tickets and pay top dollar for box office tickets. Then they can gradually increase pricing. Just look at the sabres. Struggled to sell out games forever. They sell almost all the tickets, they aren't cheap, and they have pretty much stunk for 6 of 7 years. All fueled by 2 great seasons. Everyone with an Internet connection is a ticket broker. Just need to get to that point of people perceiving demand.

the Chiefs last season had poor attendance and worse than Buffalo has this season http://espn.go.com/n...12/sort/homePct this season they have high attendance at 98% capacity. what changed?

look at the league attendance this season. There is a direct correlation to winning (or at least recent winning). Winning absolutely sells tickets and it is the oldest principle in the book. http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance fan bleed off for losing (especially for 14+ years worth) is totally expected and not a version of boycott. Apathy is a better word for it. And I agree boycotting in sports is a complete waste of time. You need close to 100% participation to prove a point and display the strength of a fan base. Never will happen. Best you can get would be 10% and that is generous. I remember Schopp organized a Sabres walk-out back in like 2002. It had legs/buzz and a lot of attention. Felt like it was going to be huge. We were out at Headlines at the time and there were about 250 people there. Impressive, but not a dent. Then Miro Satan scored and everyone started flocking back to the seats. Boycott and not showing is our worst enemy at this point of relocation. The NFL does not want the PR stain of moving a crummy team where great fans continue to support. This is why I believe we see in the press "Bills in danger of being first black out" everywhere. It doesnt mention that is only because the Bills didnt opt out of the blackout rule, while most other teams did. People like to point out that in the 90s they didnt always sell out in December, so its a moot point. I disagree. First, internet ticket sales. Second, lower seating capacity. Third, they havent even made the playoffs (or really been competitive post Thanksgiving) since the "Regionalization" efforts to both ROchester and Ontario. If these are going as well as Mr. brandon says, selling out should be no problem. Give us a relevant team.

this thread is about boycott? Im not seeing it

I got Stone Temple Pilots Core (yellow) Queens of the Stone Age and the Chili Peppers those werent the most 'sought after' releases, but the ones I specifically targeted.

I cant stand it when he kicks dirt in our face and each time I consider dropping my seasons. Didnt the New England, Carolina, and Baltimore games all sold out "naturally", right? That is 3. "Manufactured" was the buy-up of the last seats vs Jets, Cincinnati, and KC? Not "4 or 5" like Mr. Slime says. I cant believe Im forced to defend us against this. applies to the all the other teams who cant sell out? http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance

I just wonder if the NFL is expressing concern as the game got some bad press and is a failure in nearly every way. Plus multiple player complaints over terrible field conditions which could result in another lawsuit if ignored. I really dont think Brandon lets the toothpaste out of the tube there if there wasnt anything to it. You also say Rogers should be able to improve over time. It isnt improving 6 years later, and is going the other way. This isn't regionalizing Bills football. By all accounts this is an awful representation of Bills football and the NFL. Honestly, how many people have you encountered at games or here have said that the genesis of being a Bills fan was attending a Bills in Toronto Series game? Regionalization is natural IMO and the resurgence of the Canadian dollar and huge increase of Canadian traffic across the border is the prevailing factor in the increase in CDN ticket sales. There are many, many ways to market to Canadians for games here in Orchard Park. Partner up with malls and hotels and put together weekend packages and bus people in... I dont know. I think once we all admit this is what it is: Easy money for Mr Wilson, and a dress rehearsal for Rogers to own an NFL team, it will get easier to dissect.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bills-to-remain-in-buffalo/ Kind of the aftermath... 1998 was before the real proliferation of the Internet and 100000 sources covering nfl. I do recall at the time being made very afraid of the team's future in buffalo

yes. But Kansas City for example.... is there really that much population surrounding it? You can also include Southern Ontario (and not even including Toronto). I would also contend that WNY miles are much shorter than miles in more populous areas. Can get from Buf to Roc in much less time than half the distance, in say, Atlanta. We are not some megalopolis, but people citing the 270K population figure is misleading. Here is the data that combines areas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Combined_Statistical_Areas

It is just a losing culture, brought about by a loser of an owner born with a silver spoon and happened to buy a football team eons ago. 1 total playoff win post merger outside of the Kelly years. The owner treats this like his coin purse. Play it as safe as possible and make 2 nickels, results be damned. While you could take a little risk of making 1 nickel, but possibly get good results and make 4 nickels. Regardless, our worst enemy is an outside perception of apathy. Best case, a boycott would result in a 10% loss in ticket sales (and that is generous). That would do nothing but make us look unwilling/unable to support an NFL team and the NFL would have more public "buy-in" to allow the team to leave. One of our best allies at this point is other fans, who hold Buffalo fans in high regard. The NFL does not want any bad press and may possibly hesitate to move a team with history and fans like this. It makes no good sense, especially when the owner is 95. Buffalo itself doesnt have the poulation... But factor in WNY and you have 2.5 Million. not shabby or far fetched considering an hour is nothing to travel for an NFL game. Ranks: Buffalo #44 and Rochester #45. Combined and you jump up a great deal.

Many greats mentioned Cant forget Bledsoe's 1st game vs the Jets in 2002. OT Kickoff return TD. Loss.

Wonder what they do about Carpenter vs Hopkins. I think Choice is a solid #3 RB Pay Byrd Would like to see Carrington stay if its reasonable.

no. I have various friends that are Yankee fans and Pats fans, etc... I dont really envy them at all. In a way they are really missing out. The real thrill of the chase is gone. Games arent really meaningful until the Conference Championships. Bills fan is exceptionally bad because there is just no good things at all. I am thinking though if we are blessed with a new local owner, the team will once again break out of its 53 year slumber. Being a Bills, Sabres, and Indians fan, I wouldnt trade it for anything.

Holding the game up there is a terrible representation of Bills/NFL football IMO. Market the game to Canadians, that is fine. Best way is the tried and true gameday atmosphere in Orchard Park and winning. Meaningful December games help, but in large part due to this series, there wont be any more this year. I think the cat is out of the bag that the only real motivation for the Toronto side is to rip the Bills out of Buffalo. They (Bills) didnt even get a lot of money this time. The first round was highway robbery. This time was just cashing in any way they can while Wilson is alive.

I dont think the deal exists without Toronto's hopes to relocate the Bills

the original deal was $78 million, but there was certainly negotiation this round and I do not believe a dollar figure was ever publicly released this time.

I loled and support this

I know skydome (Rogers Center) certainly has many events outside of MLB and CFL. Every time I am in Toronto it seems like something is going on there, whether its motocross or UFC... I wonder if the new stadium would be billed as Jays/NFL again?

I like where they are. Another good draft and a few well chosen FAs, and this team will be ready to be a realistic challenger to NE next season IMO and I am normally pretty negative about the Bills

I hope you are right.

That is all good and my only hope (add Bob Rich to that as well). Jacobs would need to sell the Bruins, and with that many parts, they would likely need to be organized (which is what Toronto interests have been doing for years). They would need to do research into how likely a new stadium is, public funding, lease w/county, etc. Methinks the NFL will streamline the Bills to Toronto sale long before the "players" here decide and are ready for a formal bid package.