thebandit27 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 What the heck happened here? I'm not here to defend Alphadawg, but I read his post and I can't believe some of you people! The post was very QB neutral, and simply posed a "what if" scenario, as in: What if Fitzpatrick plays well enough for the team to win 6 of their last 10 games, would that make Ralph decide to keep Jauron? Outside of his statement that "Most of everyone can agree that Trent has been holding this offense back (along with JP when he was here) going back to the middle of last season", there really isn't anything to criticize him for, let alone fodder enough for some of you guys to be lambasting him. He even went so far as to say that he didn't necessarily think that Fitzpatrick was capable of average or above-average QB play, so I can't understand the tongue-lashing he's getting. Since then, of course, the typical Trent-apologist vs. Trent-arsenist debate has erupted, but I digress to my original point. Here's my response: If, and I stress the word "IF", Fitzpatrick plays well enough to (1) keep the starting job, and (2) lead the team to a 6-4 record over the next 10 games, then yes, I think Jauron would keep his job. Would I be happy about it? No, I want him gone. Of course, I don't think either of those things are going to happen, as I don't think Fitzpatrick is a very good QB. I do, however, think he showed a bit more zip on his passes, better pocket awareness, and a little more willingness to throw to the WRs. That said, his accuracy leaves quite a bit to be desired. Just my 1 cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Who gives the team a better chance to win? Fitz Is he the QB of the future? No, but let's try and win now and you know Edwards is not. Even if you want to make the Grand Canyon sized leap that Trent is just in a funk and under all that is really a great QB he has an awful injury history. You are not going to give him a big contract at all given the injuries. So let's try and win now and see what Fitz can do....you already have the decision on TE. The worst Fitz can do is play like Edwards and we lose. We actually saw a QB throw to the WRs Sunday......hasn't really happened much at all this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 First off, let me say I NEVER said Fitz was any good, the jury is still out whether he can be a solid QB or not. Second, in almost EVERY loss going back to last year, we were close and in postion to still win late in the game despite poor QB play in the majority of them. So, given our level of competiveness while dealing with ineptness from Trent and JP, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that even if Fitz is average we could end up winning some ball games. Make no mistake, I have little faith in Fitz and dont see him as our starting QB, but with all these weapons he could end up doing ok. All I am saying is WHAT IF Fitz ends up being average or solid (he has won the last 4 games hes been in) and we end up winning a few more games than expected and finish the season strong? Would Ralph use that as an excuse to keep DJ? I would say this season in the few games we were close in, we had a chance to win and the Special Teams/Return Teams lost it for us, not Trent Edwards or any other quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Funny, that's what Pat fans were saying about some guy name Tom Brady when he came in for the injured Bledsoe. Did you hear them saying that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Funny, that's what Pat fans were saying about some guy name Tom Brady when he came in for the injured Bledsoe. We've already seen how Fitz plays. No one had seen Brady play before. Let's not forget that he was on the Bengals before he came to Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 He actually won his last three games last year for Cincinnati....and if you look at his games and stats he actually got the ball to Chad Johnson a fair amount. I am not saying he is our QB of the future but you have to agree he is playing like the better QB right now (yes after only one game and he outplayed Trent in the preseason as well) and he has much better mobility. Give him a chance and see where he leads us.....what if the Bills go 2-0 in the next two games and go in to the bye week 4-4 with Fitz going essentially 3-0 (lots of faith for that to happen I know)? What happens then? I do sense that some people on the board would be upset if this team goes undefeated the rest of the way b/c Jauron would be the coach still....what would be wrong with that if they went undefeated the rest of the way. I am not delusional I just say that to illustrate the point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Ryan Fitzpatrick had Chad Johnson, Ochocinco, whatever the hell you call him for now, and T.J. Houshmazada last year, to perennial pro-bowlers every year, and stunk it up. The scary thing is, Cincy's o-line was and IS better than Buffalo's this year. It will take both his and Jauron's Ivy League educations plus Doogie-fickin-Houser to make Fitz a "Real-deal"! Lets see, all I hear about Trent for the apologists all off season is how he had only 23 starts under his belt for why he has stunk (more turnovers than TD's coming into the season). But now you want to call out Fitz last year which was essentially his first season as an actual starter in only his 4th year in the league? How does it get to be an excuse for Trent and not Fitz? Did you know that prior to Fitz coming in last year that Carson Palmer had lost all 4 games he played in before injury and had only 3 TD's and 4 INT's. Not to mention he was sacked 11 times in four games? In fact, he had 4 games with less than 150 yards passing, including 1 with less than 100 yards passing. So even he struggled in Cincy last year with all those weapons (which he had years of chemistry with) and that so called "better O Line"... Back to this better O Line Cincy had lasy year as you claim. It was one of the worst in football last year: Sacks allowed: 49 Yards per rush as a team: 3.6 yds per rush on 420 rushing plays So please, on what grounds did Cincy have a better O Line than we do now? Or can you just admit you pulled that out of your ass? Not to mention, that under Fitz the O line gave up no sacks in 3 quarters to a team that usually owns us in that dept. In fact, O Line has only allowed 3 sacks in last two games and seems to be getting better as our rookies get more experience. It was only one game (well 3 quarters) but with a QB who knows how to slide the O Line looked much better...so maybe our O Line has looked so bad becuase it was both young and had a QB who didnt know how to move well in the pocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 He actually won his last three games last year for Cincinnati....and if you look at his games and stats he actually got the ball to Chad Johnson a fair amount. I am not saying he is our QB of the future but you have to agree he is playing like the better QB right now (yes after only one game and he outplayed Trent in the preseason as well) and he has much better mobility. Give him a chance and see where he leads us.....what if the Bills go 2-0 in the next two games and go in to the bye week 4-4 with Fitz going essentially 3-0 (lots of faith for that to happen I know)? What happens then?I do sense that some people on the board would be upset if this team goes undefeated the rest of the way b/c Jauron would be the coach still....what would be wrong with that if they went undefeated the rest of the way. I am not delusional I just say that to illustrate the point! Chad Johnson wasn't Chad Johnson last year. Seeing as how he is now Chad Ochincinco I guess he isn't Chad Johnson this year either lol. "Chad" admitted that he gave up last year and mailed it in. Once again it's not whether Fitz is the next Jim Kelly, it's does he give us a better chance to win right now. Fitz started a bunch of games in Cincy last year and if I'm not mistaken threw a couple 300 yarders. He also won a bunch too on a Cincy team that wasn't really that great. I don't see how people can run down Fitz but back Trent to the hilt. At this point I think it is pretty safe to say we know what Trent is. He's not the long term answer unless your goal is mediocre records every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black-Eyed Dog Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 We are talking about the QB who came in and went 10-25 for 116 yards with one TD and one INT, right? I noticed a nice catch by Nelson for 25 yards that saved Fitzpatrick on one play, and a couple of should-have-been INTs, too. His numbers should have been way worse. I have no preference between Edwards and Fitzpatrick, I hope one of them plays well, but neither of them will be a solid started any time soon (if ever). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 What the heck happened here? I'm not here to defend Alphadawg, but I read his post and I can't believe some of you people! The post was very QB neutral, and simply posed a "what if" scenario, as in: What if Fitzpatrick plays well enough for the team to win 6 of their last 10 games, would that make Ralph decide to keep Jauron? Outside of his statement that "Most of everyone can agree that Trent has been holding this offense back (along with JP when he was here) going back to the middle of last season", there really isn't anything to criticize him for, let alone fodder enough for some of you guys to be lambasting him. He even went so far as to say that he didn't necessarily think that Fitzpatrick was capable of average or above-average QB play, so I can't understand the tongue-lashing he's getting. Since then, of course, the typical Trent-apologist vs. Trent-arsenist debate has erupted, but I digress to my original point. Here's my response: If, and I stress the word "IF", Fitzpatrick plays well enough to (1) keep the starting job, and (2) lead the team to a 6-4 record over the next 10 games, then yes, I think Jauron would keep his job. Would I be happy about it? No, I want him gone. Of course, I don't think either of those things are going to happen, as I don't think Fitzpatrick is a very good QB. I do, however, think he showed a bit more zip on his passes, better pocket awareness, and a little more willingness to throw to the WRs. That said, his accuracy leaves quite a bit to be desired. Just my 1 cent. I will tell you what happened...look at those giving those lame posts...they are all the same people that made outlandish claims about Trent all off season and blasted me and others every time we were critical of Trent and JP. In fact, if you follow my posts, I am in all kinds of topics, the Trent ones get remembered though because I was arguing with morons like dog14787, Magox, etc made claims like Trent was better than Cutler, Trent was better than Jim Kelly, compared him to Brady and Montanna and talked about his greatness (the same greatness that amounted to more turnovers than TD's, no 300 yard games, 3 games with more than 1 TD, etc, etc.) and so much more outlandish boasts. Now, they just try and say its all I talk about (funny as I am in all kinds of threads) and try and discredit anything I write to try and save face and cover up the fact that I was dead on with my assesment of Trent. It kills them I was right about it after they argued and literally made stuff up to defend Trent all offseason (Magox and dog14787 especailly). If you notice, those bashing are also those that literally provide very little to any thread. Magox bashes everyone...and its too bad, because before he was proven wrong about Trent he used to actually post football stuff in other threads. In fact we agreed on a lot. But now its almost as if he is trying to go about bashing so many others (not just me) that were right about Trent and call them morons and retards to try and make up for all that boy crush stuff he spewed. Dog14787 just writes what eveyone else does...he goes with popular opinnion. In fact, he has once again flip flopped on yet another topic in this very thread...he changes his mind on almost every play. Senator cant make a post that doesnt involve Leech...and so on and so on. Its all good though as there are people here who can objectively read a thread and respond to it. No matter what you will get loser posters disrupting a thread or trying to read into it something its not...comes with being on a message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 When you start a thread like this when everyone knows fully well the biggest problems the Bills have right now is lacking the proper pass protection , an inexperienced OC, and a HC that knows how to coach and yet you continue to rant about one person, Trent Edwards like Alphadawg has even before the season started and has continued his non stop idiotic crusade up until now it tends to hurt your credibility. Alphadawg intends to keep up his ranting , disregarding the fact that the O-line should continue to improve game by game and scratching the no huddle is also helping the offense, but in his mind its all the QB Fitz that accounts for any improvement, geeesh, give me a break buddy. Maybe folks don't want to hear his BS anymore because he has a one track mind, ever thought about that? Just my 2 cents Hahahaha, this coming from the guy who says Trent is better than Jim Kelly, supported Brady getting PWNED by Trent, compared him to Montanna and Brady, claims to have predicted how great Brady would be before he ever started and had the single worst combine of any player in the history of the combine, cried for April as HC, and ball washed AVP for weeks... Seriously, no one is ever always right as its a discussion board of opinnion, but you havent been right on a single thing you have ever posted because it always involves those outlandish claims above...but yet you call everyone else a retard and moron...and its usually anyone who doesnt think Trent is magical (as you even refered to him before). Add in the fact you literally flip flop daily, practically on every snap of the ball, on just about everything you talk about as soon as you start getting flamed by the majority. My favorite though is how you always call people names but get your vag hurt when people react to it. In fact, I never said squat to you until you repeatedly called me a retard, moron, idiot etc because I criticized Trent. If posts had a dollar value, you couldnt get 2 cents from any of your posts if the proceeds all went to charity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 When you start a thread like this when everyone knows fully well the biggest problems the Bills have right now is lacking the proper pass protection , an inexperienced OC, and a HC that knows how to coach and yet you continue to rant about one person, Trent Edwards like Alphadawg has even before the season started and has continued his non stop idiotic crusade up until now it tends to hurt your credibility. Alphadawg intends to keep up his ranting , disregarding the fact that the O-line should continue to improve game by game and scratching the no huddle is also helping the offense, but in his mind its all the QB Fitz that accounts for any improvement, geeesh, give me a break buddy. Maybe folks don't want to hear his BS anymore because he has a one track mind, ever thought about that? Just my 2 cents I have no problem with Alphadawg's post. As for RF, at least he has a couple of 300+ yard passing performances. Trent has none. RF was third last year in QB rushing yards. Trent has been exposed at length and by many as having poor pocket presence and mobility. RF looks pretty calm, collected, and confident out there. Periodically TE looks (and acts) totally psyched out. I suspect that Trent has to some extent at least lost the respect and trust of his playmaking teammates because they believe he can't help make them better or successful. If he demonstrably has no confidence in himself, there is no reason for others to have confidence in him. Trent has not looked like a good quarterback playing behind an inexperienced OL. He has for all the world looked like a mediocre quarterback behind an inexperienced OL. Philip Rivers did a segment before the MNF game vs Denver. He said that a QB will never hit a big play if he does not trust in his instincts and in the abilities of his receivers, even if doing so necessarily involves taking on some risk. Trent never trusts in his instincts (if indeed he has them) or in the ability of his receivers to beat coverage (though both TO and Lee are good at that). Not trying spells failure with virtual certainty in the long run. At least RF will try. I sure hope Trent can turn it around for his and our sakes. Would like nothing more than to see him succeed. Wonder (but don't know) how much of this mind numbing losing conservatism is a reflection of DJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Wonder (but don't know) how much of this mind numbing losing conservatism is a reflection of DJ. Hopefully we will see if that point has even the slightest chances of having any truth to it. I haven't see it affect JP Losman and to this point I haven't seen it affect Fitz. Might be time for that Trent defense to die along with the many others. When all the onion leaves of excuses are peeled back we will probably see that Trent is truly not the guy to lead us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 When you start a thread like this when everyone knows fully well the biggest problems the Bills have right now is lacking the proper pass protection , an inexperienced OC, and a HC that knows how to coach and yet you continue to rant about one person, Trent Edwards like Alphadawg has even before the season started and has continued his non stop idiotic crusade up until now it tends to hurt your credibility. Alphadawg intends to keep up his ranting , disregarding the fact that the O-line should continue to improve game by game and scratching the no huddle is also helping the offense, but in his mind its all the QB Fitz that accounts for any improvement, geeesh, give me a break buddy. Maybe folks don't want to hear his BS anymore because he has a one track mind, ever thought about that? Just my 2 cents Except that I, and by the looks of it at least a few other posters, don't agree with that. I think that the biggest problem is the head coach, followed closely by the quarterback. I truly believe that a great QB makes the offense better, not that a solid OL makes a QB great. Honestly, do you think that--to a man--the Bills' OL is that much worse than that of: Pittsburgh - allowing the 7th most sacks in the league this year with 16, 3 fewer than Buffalo, but they have the No. 2 passing offense in the league Green Bay - allowing the most sacks in the league this year with 25, 6 more than Buffalo, but they have the No. 10 passing offense in the league San Diego - allowing the 10th most sacks in the league this year with 15, 4 fewer than Buffalo, but they have the No. 5 passing offense in the league. And to boot, of those three teams, only Pittsburgh's running game ranks in the top half of the league at No. 15 (Green Bay and San Diego are 19th and 32nd, respectively). I guess what I'm saying is that those teams can't block either, but they have very potent offenses. I agree that coaching has something to do with it, yes, but no moreso than QB play. In two cases (SD and GB), those teams have similar OL play, and similarly-embattled head coaches, as Norv Turner is definitely on the hot seat, and Mike McCarthy's team went 6-10 last year despite having the No. 8 offense in the NFL. The biggest difference, in my opinion, is that they have better QBs. My point regarding this thread is that I think some people are letting Alphadawg's opinion of Edwards (from previous posts, since he only mentioned Edwards in the one snippet that I highlighted in my last post) prevent them from considering the interesting situational question he asked. I guess if some of you read Alphadawg's original post and categorized it as "ranting", you must've read something that I didn't, because I thought it was a perfectly normal, thought-provoking post. Again, I'm not here to defend Alphadawg, but if you're truly "tired of his BS", then perhaps you should put him on "ignore" and refrain from reading his posts, because I think you're wrong about this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Except that I, and by the looks of it at least a few other posters, don't agree with that. I think that the biggest problem is the head coach, followed closely by the quarterback. I truly believe that a great QB makes the offense better, not that a solid OL makes a QB great. Honestly, do you think that--to a man--the Bills' OL is that much worse than that of: Pittsburgh - allowing the 7th most sacks in the league this year with 16, 3 fewer than Buffalo, but they have the No. 2 passing offense in the league Green Bay - allowing the most sacks in the league this year with 25, 6 more than Buffalo, but they have the No. 10 passing offense in the league San Diego - allowing the 10th most sacks in the league this year with 15, 4 fewer than Buffalo, but they have the No. 5 passing offense in the league. And to boot, of those three teams, only Pittsburgh's running game ranks in the top half of the league at No. 15 (Green Bay and San Diego are 19th and 32nd, respectively). I guess what I'm saying is that those teams can't block either, but they have very potent offenses. I agree that coaching has something to do with it, yes, but no moreso than QB play. In two cases (SD and GB), those teams have similar OL play, and similarly-embattled head coaches, as Norv Turner is definitely on the hot seat, and Mike McCarthy's team went 6-10 last year despite having the No. 8 offense in the NFL. The biggest difference, in my opinion, is that they have better QBs. My point regarding this thread is that I think some people are letting Alphadawg's opinion of Edwards (from previous posts, since he only mentioned Edwards in the one snippet that I highlighted in my last post) prevent them from considering the interesting situational question he asked. I guess if some of you read Alphadawg's original post and categorized it as "ranting", you must've read something that I didn't, because I thought it was a perfectly normal, thought-provoking post. Again, I'm not here to defend Alphadawg, but if you're truly "tired of his BS", then perhaps you should put him on "ignore" and refrain from reading his posts, because I think you're wrong about this one. You are one of the most consistent posters on this board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Hopefully we will see if that point has even the slightest chances of having any truth to it. I haven't see it affect JP Losman and to this point I haven't seen it affect Fitz. Might be time for that Trent defense to die along with the many others. When all the onion leaves of excuses are peeled back we will probably see that Trent is truly not the guy to lead us. You are right in pointing out that JP and TE are completely different characters. Still, and especially for this reason, I find it strange that in some respects they wind up looking alike, and not just in terms of general ineffectiveness - for example being unable to accurately throw a short pass to a running back. One of Trent's attributes was supposed to be pinpoint accuracy. You are also right about it having to do with leadership. Players need it and naturally you look to your quarterback to provide it on offence. I can remember an in game sound bite where Randy Moss was desperately imploring Daunte Culpepper to "lead us" with tears in his eyes. Daunte was looking at him like he was out of his mind, but I think the point is still valid. Trent doesn't look like much of a leader right now. I suppose it doesn't help his confidence either when TO drops a perfectly placed 40 yard bomb and guaranteed TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 You are right in pointing out that JP and TE are completely different characters. Still, and especially for this reason, I find it strange that in some respects they wind up looking alike, and not just in terms of general ineffectiveness - for example being unable to accurately throw a short pass to a running back. One of Trent's attributes was supposed to be pinpoint accuracy. You are also right about it having to do with leadership. Players need it and naturally you look to your quarterback to provide it on offence. I can remember an in game sound bite where Randy Moss was desperately imploring Daunte Culpepper to "lead us" with tears in his eyes. Daunte was looking at him like he was out of his mind, but I think the point is still valid. Trent doesn't look like much of a leader right now. I suppose it doesn't help his confidence either when TO drops a perfectly placed 40 yard bomb and guaranteed TD. I think why JP and TE wind up eerily the same despite two different styles is that they had 2 of the same funamental flaws that generally spell doom for a QB: 1. Poor field vision 2. Poor performance under pressure. JP would get all out of control when things moved fast or pressure came leading to terrible decisions. Trent also seems to just bail on plays at the first sign of pressure leading to all his checkdowns. It was even highlighted this week on one of the NFL shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I sure hope he does save Jauron's job, because that means we are winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 I sure hope he does save Jauron's job, because that means we are winning A point thats lost in the shuffle...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 You do realize he went 13-3 in Chicago right? Jauron had one (1) winning season in his entire coaching career. One. If you average out all his full seasons, he is 7-9 per season. That is his career average. Even a blind squirrel ...... blah, blah, blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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