Ray Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Where are all the McKinnie is an All-Pro posts? Just goes to show you that when you watch other teams you can put some things in perspective. MW is as good as McKinnie and they both are good tackles. MW is unlucky in that he has to protect the least mobile QB in the NFL. People love to criticize MW, but he has had a very good year overall. Go watch other tackles in the league and they are far from infallible. Ogden got toasted by Schobel and his QB fumbled on the sack. If that happened to MW many people on this board would elect to trade or cut him on the spot. I think some people have very unrealistic expectations from draft picks even if they are in the top 10! Look at the Jets and Giants big top 10 DL draft picks sucking over the past two years. They are still young and may very well be excellent players, but in general it takes a lot of time. Look at Drew Brees in his fourth year--pretty darn good QB. Big Ben of Pittsburgh is the huge exception to the rule and let's see how he does the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 McKinnie is a far superior player to Fat Mike. The argument for Williams is non-existent. He was seen by the Bills as a great pass blocker and run blocker, and frankly he is only adequate as a run-blocker and horrendous in pass protection. He has had more awful games this year than adequate ones. Meanwhile Culpepper has been torching the league thanks in no small part to the outstanding blindside protection he gets from McKinnie, and his Vikes are playoff bound. Maybe the light will turn on for His Fatness and he will start to bring it, but so far we have been sold a bill of goods on this stiff. 109214[/snapback] Why, because you say so? You are so full of stevestojan here it's not even funny. Maybe once you will back your statements with a smidge of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuyInMalta Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 What I found funny was that most Vikings fans attributed Winfield not getting INTs because the Bills Defensive scheme didnt allow him to (its okay if you dont understand that reasoning...its called being "homerish"). Checking out Winfield in that game last night...uhhh...nope, still looks like ol' stone hands to me! Great cover guy, Great tackler...but acts like his hands are greased every game. Had he hung on to that easy pick in the endzone before the Colts first TD, Minnesota wins the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_eyedog_* Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 This is getting ridiculous. Now the right tackle position is tougher to play than the left. Please. No need to go any further with that idiotic comparison. Why do you think the left tackles make the big money ??? Blindside.... end of that discussion. I've watched McKinnie play probably more than anyone on this board unless they are a Viking fan and see every game. This is another good one, MW has had a " very good year overall ". Are you freaking serious. If you call what we've seen so far as very good than you don't have any standards, are blind, or don't know what your watching. He's shown improvement, and at this point I'll take that. Far from "very good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 This is getting ridiculous. Now the right tackle position is tougher to play than the left. Please. No need to go any further with that idiotic comparison. Why do you think the left tackles make the big money ??? Blindside.... end of that discussion. I've watched McKinnie play probably more than anyone on this board unless they are a Viking fan and see every game. This is another good one, MW has had a " very good year overall ". Are you freaking serious. If you call what we've seen so far as very good than you don't have any standards, are blind, or don't know what your watching. He's shown improvement, and at this point I'll take that. Far from "very good". 109434[/snapback] Ok Mr. Guru grader of offensive linemen, give us your evidence......................................................................... At this point your post is nothing but hot air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_eyedog_* Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Evidence of what ? I need to give you evidence that evey gm and coach in football will tell you the left side is more difficult to play because you got the qb's blindside. That the left tackles on average make more money than the right tackles, why is that ?????? You need evidence to know MW hasn't had a "very good year" to this point ? You need evidence for that ? Go back to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Evidence of what ? I need to give you evidence that evey gm and coach in football will tell you the left side is more difficult to play because you got the qb's blindside. That the left tackles on average make more money than the right tackles, why is that ??????You need evidence to know MW hasn't had a "very good year" to this point ? You need evidence for that ? Go back to bed. 109500[/snapback] Because it's more important not because it's harder. You dont want your QB killed from behind so you want to put your best guy there, and that is why they make the most money. Most of the left tackles are better than most of the right tackles because it is more important. But on teams with left handed quarterbacks, the right tackles are more important because that is the blindside. NOT because right tackle is less difficult than left tackle, but ONLY because you don't want your QB blindsided. Both positions are equally difficult and require the exact same skill set. Move your man on runs and protect your quarterback on passes. No one is saying the right tackle is harder, I only said that the men that Mike Williams played against last year wrre tougher opponents than McKinnie played against. Not that the RT position is harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Ahhh, good to see the Mike Williams bashers/McKinney dicksuckers are still out notwithstanding Mike's much improved play and McKinney's STILL medicore play. I was beginning to think it was only the Drew bashers who would continue their quest in spite of reality! Oh, and I'm glad to see the old LT is harder to play than RT theory is still getting its play. As Kelly Dog rightly points out: The reason that the tackles that are drafted higher and paid more are LT's is NOT because it is the harder postion, it is because it is the MORE IMPORTANT position. If you're going to pay a guy a lot of money, and another guy less, might as well be the one on the blind side of the QB. Other than that, there is NOTHING more inherently difficult about playing the left vs. the right side. And this BS about LTs facing more difficult competition is completely obsolete at this point. There are just as many feared pass rushers from the left as the right side of the defense today. I have to laugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Evidence of what ? I need to give you evidence that evey gm and coach in football will tell you the left side is more difficult to play because you got the qb's blindside. That the left tackles on average make more money than the right tackles, why is that ??????You need evidence to know MW hasn't had a "very good year" to this point ? You need evidence for that ? Go back to bed. 109500[/snapback] You really aren't too smart, are you? Mike has actually had a very good year. How many sacks has he given up? In his worst game aginst the Jets and Abraham, he gave up one. Perhaps it is you who should go back to bed, We can wake you up the next time a thread comes along that involves Big Mike, so you can make your weak posts about how great McKinney is and how bad Mike is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Evidence such as our right side of our line averaging 4.5 yards per carry or our RT superbly handling the pass rush of the Jets' Ellis in both games this season should NEVER into such a worthy argument Face it, when you make statements and cannot EVER back them up your points will not be taken seriously by anyone else. It's simple really. And when you claim to know what you are talking about re: the play of a particular offensive lineman and cannot even refer to any technique/production element that involves said player, you look like a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_eyedog_* Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 " you want to put your best guy there " oh to cover the qb's blindside. I'd say it's a harder job pass blocking when your qb can't see the d-end coming at him.. BuffaloBob, brilliant, "If your going to pay a guy a lot of money, might as well be the one on the blind side of the qb." Thats the whole point why it is a harder job and the left guys make the big $$$$. So Bob if what you say is true than wtf happend in that draft ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_eyedog_* Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 And he didn't handle Ellis in the first game. Try again. I said MW is showing improvement, still a long way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_eyedog_* Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 How many sacks has MW given up ? I can recall some guy from Jacksonville names Spicer who abused him, some no name from Oakland that got him, Suggs from Balt, Ellis in game #1 vs Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 This is getting ridiculous. Now the right tackle position is tougher to play than the left. Please. No need to go any further with that idiotic comparison. Why do you think the left tackles make the big money ??? Blindside.... end of that discussion. I've watched McKinnie play probably more than anyone on this board unless they are a Viking fan and see every game. This is another good one, MW has had a " very good year overall ". Are you freaking serious. If you call what we've seen so far as very good than you don't have any standards, are blind, or don't know what your watching. He's shown improvement, and at this point I'll take that. Far from "very good". 109434[/snapback] I'm sure these guys have watched the Vikes closer than you have. If you visit this Viking site alot, you'll see this isn't all over one game, but over his whole career. McKinnie McKinnie is starting to piss me off If people want to make the argument that we should've drafted Roy Williams, than they're right, but to say we should've drafted McKinnie is a mistake, b/c he hasn't done anything. Roy Williams is the only player taken from 4-10 that I'd rather have. Now if we all had hindsight, we could've traded down and gotten Freeney or Shockey, but like I said, except for Roy Williams, and possibly John Henderson, the top 10 wasn't that special from 4-10. 2002 draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_eyedog_* Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 BuffaloBob, where you been anyway ? You went into hiding for a while when MW was stinking up the field. And it's spelled McKinnie. We've only went through it for three months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 How many sacks has MW given up ? I can recall some guy from Jacksonville names Spicer who abused him, some no name from Oakland that got him, Suggs from Balt, Ellis in game #1 vs Jets. 109555[/snapback] In Baltimore, he looked like he ran out of gas before halftime. He WAS given a game ball vs the cards, and does look better than he did last year, but not for 36 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 How many sacks has MW given up ? I can recall some guy from Jacksonville names Spicer who abused him, some no name from Oakland that got him, Suggs from Balt, Ellis in game #1 vs Jets. 109555[/snapback] And the truth comes out. A good portion of the sacks given up by the right side this season and ones that you are mentioning have been the responsibility of the backs and Te's , which was confirmed by MM himself. You are no different than the other "ballwatchers" (to steal a term from AKC ) that critiques a player without any evidence of the scheme at hand that the player was involved in. Even if you arent familiar with blocking schemes, listen closely and the Coaches and players will reveal some of it to you in their reports to the media. The Spicer reference you made was a valid one and came obviously at a point when Mike was playing out of shape and out of practice due to his offseason issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 " you want to put your best guy there " oh to cover the qb's blindside. I'd say it's a harder job pass blocking when your qb can't see the d-end coming at him.. 109548[/snapback] ROTFLMAO! Exactly how does it make your job harder because the guy you are blocking for can't see you do the job?? This is too funny! BuffaloBob, brilliant, "If your going to pay a guy a lot of money, might as well be the one on the blind side of the qb." Thats the whole point why it is a harder job and the left guys make the big $$$$. 109548[/snapback] LOL! OK, so by paying the guy more and drafting him higher, you make his job harder, right?? Are you sure you aren't still in high school? Let me try an analogy. Your company has two sales territories, say East Coast and West Coast. It turns that both territories have just as much competition and are equally important to the company's success, but because the HQs are in Los Angeles, the CEO does not have as much visibility tp what is going on over on the East Coast as he does on the West. So now you have two salesman, and one is better salesman than the other and you know you are going to have to pay more to the better guy anyway. So why not put the highr paid guy in the East, given that you at least can keep a better eye on what is going in the West given that you are in LA? It doesn't mean that the Sales job is harder in the East. It just means that all other things being equal, put your better guy out in the territory where you can't see as much of what is going on. As for why we selected Big Mike and an exception to the rule? Because he was a highly touted salesman with great character and he happened to know the West coast territory really well. Moreover, it looked like Mike was the better salesman than McKinney, even though McKinney knew the East Coast territory. So given the choice between having someone who knew the East Coast, and having a better guy in the West, we took the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 Evidence such as our right side of our line averaging 4.5 yards per carry or our RT superbly handling the pass rush of the Jets' Ellis in both games this season should NEVER into such a worthy argument Face it, when you make statements and cannot EVER back them up your points will not be taken seriously by anyone else. It's simple really. And when you claim to know what you are talking about re: the play of a particular offensive lineman and cannot even refer to any technique/production element that involves said player, you look like a fool. 109543[/snapback] First of all, MW did not"handle" Ellis in the first jest game. On at least one of the sacks by Abraham, Ellis was right there and would have hit Drew even if Abraham was not in the play. Also, this poster is abviously anything but a fool. He is an articulate Bills fan with an opinion that seems to differ from yours. He listed poorly played games by Big Mike, and scoffs at the notion that RT is as hard to play as LT, a ridiculous assertion considering the LTs have more responsibilities, are paid more, are drafted higher, and tend to be more agile and better athletes. Now, go back to slamming other posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 BuffaloBob, where you been anyway ? You went into hiding for a while when MW was stinking up the field. And it's spelled McKinnie. We've only went through it for three months. 109560[/snapback] Mike has not stunk up the field this year. And I've been around, I just have a job so I can't come running every time you display your ignorance. And who cares how you spell his name, the result is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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