Realistically eliminated/Mathematically eliminated

[ICE]

Mathematically eliminated. People keep using this word like it is the end all. It's not. There is a thing called reality. Never do I say QUIT, but there comes a point in a football season when you look and you KNOW you don't have a shot at the post season.

 

The Bills are there now. We will NOT Win 8 more games this year. How can you look at this schedule and with a straight face say THIS team will win more than 3-4 more?

 

That said....

 

Play JP starting the Cleveland game. It is amazing to me how fans will, even in the light of Losman, say sit him a year. Ok fair enough. We sit him all of this year. Are you ready to sacrifice next year possibly as well? You might be. The kid may struggle. (Note: YES JP can have an off season his rookie year and still be BETTER than Rothlesburger. *) Now you have sacrificed part if not all of next year too.

 

Everyone bitches about the OL. Time to give that a rest. Bledsoe HAS TIME. Numerous times the last 4 weeks we have sat at a local sports bar and you can her the unison chant....one, two, three, and sometimes FOUR. that would be the seconds we count that Bledsoe has to get rid of the ball. Any QB that has 3 seconds or more...has more than enough time to throw the ball. I also think it funny that we have a guy behind the same line that has rushed for 100 yards per game in his two starts as well.

 

My point being we are realisticly done. We can't win on the road. We will not win at NE on the road, forget it. Odds are no way in hell against Seattle on the road as well. It's not quitting to say ok, time to start preping our guys that will be starting next year. Get JP, WM and Evans 4 straight starts together at the end of the season and it helps greatly going into the next offseason

[wwovince]

After what my Red Sox did to the Spankees I never say its over till its OVA!!

 

GO BILLS!!

[Alaska Darin]

Thanks Wade. Glad you weren't on the sidelines against Houston.

[stevestojan]

Mathematically eliminated.  People keep using this word like it is the end all.  It's not. There is a thing called reality.  Never do I say QUIT, but there comes a point in a football season when you look and you KNOW you don't have a shot at the post season.

 

The Bills are there now. We will NOT Win 8 more games this year. How can you look at this schedule and with a straight face say THIS team will win more than 3-4 more?

 

That said....

 

Play JP starting the Cleveland game.  It is amazing to me how fans will, even in the light of Losman, say sit him a year.  Ok fair enough. We sit him all of this year. Are you ready to sacrifice next year possibly as well?  You might be.  The kid may struggle. (Note: YES JP can have an off season his rookie year and still be BETTER than Rothlesburger. *) Now you have sacrificed part if not all of next year too.

 

Everyone bitches about the OL. Time to give that a rest. Bledsoe HAS TIME.  Numerous times the last 4 weeks we have sat at a local sports bar and you can her the unison chant....one, two, three, and sometimes FOUR.  that would be the seconds we count that Bledsoe has to get rid of the ball.  Any QB that has 3 seconds or more...has more than enough time to throw the ball.  I also think it funny that we have a guy behind the same line that has rushed for 100 yards per game in his two starts as well.

 

My point being we are realisticly done. We can't win on the road. We will not win at NE on the road, forget it. Odds are no way in hell against Seattle on the road as well. It's not quitting to say ok, time to start preping our guys that will be starting next year.  Get JP, WM and Evans 4 straight starts together at the end of the season and it helps greatly going into the next offseason

103105[/snapback]

 

I was thinking the same thing while driving home yesterday. PLAYOFFS? haha..

 

The funny thing is, there are people that say we have a chance, yet still were rooting for the Jets to beat Miami on Monday because they "hate Miami" - this is just an uninformed fan.

 

Listen, there are legitimately TWO playoff spots to be had. We are not going to win the division, I think ALL of us can agree on that. That leaves TWO wildcards.

 

Now, with only two, 9-7 is not gonna cut it. We need to go 10-6 and THEN win a tie breaker or two. 10-6. Ok... we have 9 more games. We need to go 8-1.

 

Folks, we still are not very good. In his BEST performance of the year, our QB threw for 81 yards.

 

So, I think Jim Mora said it best when he said:

 

PLAYOFFS?!??!?

[stevestojan]

Alaska Darrin and wwovince, that's fine.. "its not over till its over"..

 

In your two examples (Houston Oilers and NY Yankees) only ONE team needed to f-ck up and collapse.

 

For us to get in, not only do we have to basically win out, but we need the Jets, Baltmore, Cleveland, Houston, Indy, Tennesee, San Diego, and KC to finish rather weak in order for us to go in.

 

Impossible? Of course not.

 

Probable? About as probable as me ever running a marathon.

[Peter]

 

Everyone bitches about the OL. Time to give that a rest. Bledsoe HAS TIME.  Numerous times the last 4 weeks we have sat at a local sports bar and you can her the unison chant....one, two, three, and sometimes FOUR.  that would be the seconds we count that Bledsoe has to get rid of the ball.  Any QB that has 3 seconds or more...has more than enough time to throw the ball.  I also think it funny that we have a guy behind the same line that has rushed for 100 yards per game in his two starts as well.

 

My point being we are realisticly done. We can't win on the road. We will not win at

103105[/snapback]

 

You are fooling yourself about the time that Bledsoe typically gets. I think that the key word in your paragraph is "sports bar." Perhaps, you and your friends have had a few too many beverages before you started counting.

 

I have spent a lot of time going over sacks on TIVO to determine how much time Bledsoe typically gets between the snap of the ball and the time the play blows up. In fact, I posted my analysis of after the Raiders game of each sack.

 

You would be surprised how many times he gets two seconds or less. And by the way, the goal is four seconds, not three. Some time ago, I re-posted one of the articles from training camp in which MM emphasized what was expected of the line. You can google it and find it if you do not believe me. Four seconds has always been the goal.

[mary owen]

Mathematically eliminated.  People keep using this word like it is the end all.  It's not. There is a thing called reality.  Never do I say QUIT, but there comes a point in a football season when you look and you KNOW you don't have a shot at the post season.

 

The Bills are there now. We will NOT Win 8 more games this year. How can you look at this schedule and with a straight face say THIS team will win more than 3-4 more?

 

That said....

 

Play JP starting the Cleveland game.  It is amazing to me how fans will, even in the light of Losman, say sit him a year.  Ok fair enough. We sit him all of this year. Are you ready to sacrifice next year possibly as well?  You might be.  The kid may struggle. (Note: YES JP can have an off season his rookie year and still be BETTER than Rothlesburger. *) Now you have sacrificed part if not all of next year too.

 

Everyone bitches about the OL. Time to give that a rest. Bledsoe HAS TIME.  Numerous times the last 4 weeks we have sat at a local sports bar and you can her the unison chant....one, two, three, and sometimes FOUR.  that would be the seconds we count that Bledsoe has to get rid of the ball.  Any QB that has 3 seconds or more...has more than enough time to throw the ball.  I also think it funny that we have a guy behind the same line that has rushed for 100 yards per game in his two starts as well.

 

My point being we are realisticly done. We can't win on the road. We will not win at NE on the road, forget it. Odds are no way in hell against Seattle on the road as well. It's not quitting to say ok, time to start preping our guys that will be starting next year.  Get JP, WM and Evans 4 straight starts together at the end of the season and it helps greatly going into the next offseason

103105[/snapback]

 

Ice, I agree with your post entirely. The one thing that bothers me with this whole "sit him a year" attitude is that it's one less year with this great D helping to shorten fields for JP, create turnovers therefore allowing the young QB to use the running game to balance things out and limit the burden on him to be the difference, etc.

 

 

let's get this thing started as soon as JP is healthy enough. doesn't anyone realise that we can use Bledsoe more as a mentor NOW for JP????

[34-78-83]

You are fooling yourself about the time that Bledsoe typically gets.  I think that the key word in your paragraph is "sports bar."  Perhaps, you and your friends have had a few too many beverages before you started counting.

 

I have spent a lot of time going over sacks on TIVO to determine how much time Bledsoe typically gets between the snap of the ball and the time the play blows up.  In fact, I posted my analysis of after the Raiders game of each sack.

 

You would be surprised how many times he gets two seconds or less.  And by the way, the goal is four seconds, not three.  Some time ago, I re-posted one of the articles from training camp in which MM emphasized what was expected of the line.  You can google it and find it if you do not believe me.  Four seconds has always been the goal.

103123[/snapback]

 

I think some people tend to start with "1.......2.......3......4" as soon as the ball is snapped, as opposed to "0.....1......2.....3" which would be the correct way

[ICE]

You are fooling yourself about the time that Bledsoe typically gets.  I think that the key word in your paragraph is "sports bar."  Perhaps, you and your friends have had a few too many beverages before you started counting.

 

I have spent a lot of time going over sacks on TIVO to determine how much time Bledsoe typically gets between the snap of the ball and the time the play blows up.  In fact, I posted my analysis of after the Raiders game of each sack.

 

You would be surprised how many times he gets two seconds or less.  And by the way, the goal is four seconds, not three.  Some time ago, I re-posted one of the articles from training camp in which MM emphasized what was expected of the line.  You can google it and find it if you do not believe me.  Four seconds has always been the goal.

103123[/snapback]

Two things...

 

1) I dont' drink unless you consider Dr.Pepper alcoholic.

 

2) I have used a stopwatch. My numbers are correct.

[ICE]

I think some people tend to start with "1.......2.......3......4" as soon as the ball is snapped, as opposed to "0.....1......2.....3" which would be the correct way 

103131[/snapback]

 

 

Ah so that is why fans say 3 seconds tops when I count 4 seconds. DAMN I knew I must have been doing something wrong

 

 

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Mathematically eliminated.  People keep using this word like it is the end all.  It's not. There is a thing called reality.  Never do I say QUIT, but there comes a point in a football season when you look and you KNOW you don't have a shot at the post season.

 

The Bills are there now. We will NOT Win 8 more games this year. How can you look at this schedule and with a straight face say THIS team will win more than 3-4 more?

 

That said....

 

Play JP starting the Cleveland game.  It is amazing to me how fans will, even in the light of Losman, say sit him a year.  Ok fair enough. We sit him all of this year. Are you ready to sacrifice next year possibly as well?  You might be.  The kid may struggle. (Note: YES JP can have an off season his rookie year and still be BETTER than Rothlesburger. *) Now you have sacrificed part if not all of next year too.

 

Everyone bitches about the OL. Time to give that a rest. Bledsoe HAS TIME.  Numerous times the last 4 weeks we have sat at a local sports bar and you can her the unison chant....one, two, three, and sometimes FOUR.  that would be the seconds we count that Bledsoe has to get rid of the ball.  Any QB that has 3 seconds or more...has more than enough time to throw the ball.  I also think it funny that we have a guy behind the same line that has rushed for 100 yards per game in his two starts as well.

 

My point being we are realisticly done. We can't win on the road. We will not win at NE on the road, forget it. Odds are no way in hell against Seattle on the road as well. It's not quitting to say ok, time to start preping our guys that will be starting next year.  Get JP, WM and Evans 4 straight starts together at the end of the season and it helps greatly going into the next offseason

103105[/snapback]

 

 

I certainly would agree with the idea of MM/TC/Wyche planning and hoping for JP to begin his play with mop up duty in Cleveland. This sounds about right and likely to me given the issues which JP needs to deal with to be ready to play. I think they are:

 

1. Get physically ready- This is a total dead certainty in my book. Based on the latest reports (which no one outside can totally trust or should because I hope the Bills are lying to us about this because they must lie as much as the rule allow to deny opponents any info) JP still fills limited physically when he takes the field and reports of his complete recovery are exaggerated. Folks who hate Bledsoe may want to see him play yesterday, but the schedule for developing him as our QB of the future is far more important than the wishes of those fans who want their candy and want it now. I certainly say err on the side of caution as JP's play will add nothing to our playoff hopes this year and he has plenty of other development to do off the field which is also essential and actually more critical to his development as our QB of the future than the on-field play against NFL competition which is also essential.

2. Get mentally ready- All rookie NFL QBs in addition to getting used to playing at NFL speeds and against NFL competition which ONLY comes from on field play, also MUST learn how to read, play and anticipate NFL offenses and defenses. One of the ironies of JP injury is that it may actually improve and hasten his development IF he put the time he could not play to good use and went up into the booth and watched play after play develop and of even greater import and opportunity became Sam Wyche's best friend and had the old HC download his knowledge of the NFL way to JP. Not being able to play was such an opportunity for the youngster. Rather than standing on the sideline carrying a clipboard and preparting himself just in case we needed to use a disaster QB, he had a chance to really watch the game develop and to hear from Wyche why it was developing the way it was. I really hope he used this "down time" with Wyche rather than yucking it up with the boys on the sideline in street clothes. Being one of the boys is important as well because leadership ability comes with that. However, in terms of development of leadership and having the athleticism to play at NFL speeds which ONLY can be honed on the field, I'm less worried about that because JP brings alot to the table with his cockiness and from runningfor his life at Tulane. It is the part of development which can ONLY be learned from watching tons of tape, listening and soaking in the Wyche wisdom and watching the game which strike me as the big priorities for JPs development.

3. Get his mechanics down- Look I loved the old NFL where plays probably had much more in common to my street ball of the old days (go down to where to Chevy is parked, do a stop and go ad look for the bomb) than they do to themodern offenses. However, in today's oversystematized NFL those days are gone. Jim Kelly will go down in history as the last of the QBs to essentially call his own game. Successtoday is players working together in lockstep. Losman has to learn to throw the ball virtually the same way everytime rather than usethe freelancing he used so well in college.

One can get away with throwing off the wrong foot, off balance throws, and lob arching shots at Tulane, but NFL opponents will eat him for lunch. and p;ayers will turn too late or too soon on timing routes if he freelances too much. I hope it proves to be a minor issue but from what I have heard and what I have seen on theTulane highlights, he needs to work on his mechanics.

 

Until JP gets an A-OK from MM/TC/Wyche in all of these areas, its fine with me if he sits on the bench. Based on what I have seen from other recent rookie QBs wo sat and learned these issues as rookies and then led their team to the playoffs as second year QBs, I do not think we necessarily condemn JP to a non-co0ntributing year next year by sitting him this year.

 

Does JP need to actually play with NFL teammates and against NFL opposition to actually learn to be a contributing NFL QB? You bet. Definitely, totally and without a doubt. However, he can and MUST play with NFL teammates in practice. He will and can build chemistry with his teammates by practicing with them indoors at the Ralph practice field and at the Stadium in front of empty seats and it will help him develop and yes it is important.

 

Is playing in practice the same as playing in games? Nope. Playing against real opponents in real games is a much better learning experience than playing with or against the scout team or with or against the back-ups. However, playing scout or back-up or in practice is not worthless. it is playing at NFL speeds and against NFL opponents. It should not be counted upon for everything and he must play real games but it also should not be considered nothing.

 

To me the reasonable JOP development schedule is:

 

11/5-12/12- JP plays only in practice. His emphasis right now is watching tape and continuing the download from Wyche. Practice tends toward throwing the ball repitiously to get his mechanics down and work his bones from moving to make conistent on-balance throws. Last week was good as he got to wear the uniform and go through practice, but he would only play in emergencies and actually I would have gone to Eric Moulds as my disaster QB first if both Bledsoe and Matthews got hurt. It maybe the same this week but he is my disaster QB at most. Johnathan Smith, Khalil Hill. and Gerorge Wilson (WRs on the PS) are his best friends for now as he builds chemistry and leadership and as the real players schedules allow as they prepare themselves to really play Sam Aiken, Lee Evans and a recovering Josh Reed also can be his workmates.

 

12/12- Mop-up duty against Cleveland at home is what I'm targetting as his first work in a real game.

 

12/26- A game in SF provides a good first chance at some roadwork.

 

1/2- The final game at home against Pittsburgh possibly affords an opportunity to work with him on preparation to really play, but so much of this is theoretical as it depends on the braintrust assessment of his development and how things play out with Bledsoe the rest of the year. With good luck (which I doubt will happen but we Bills fans have to hope) Bledsoe revitalizes his career, plays well and we are free to let JP develop as slowly as Bills needs and reality dictate. More likely though I think Bledsoe is done and will need to be cut after June 1, 2005 to remove him from distracting JPs development but distribute his cap hit. If things are unlike they were last Sunday and Bledsoe's presence hurts the team AND JPs development physically, mentally and with mechanics allow you play him for real likely starting no sooner than 12/12 against Cleveland.

[ganesh]

Impossible? Of course not.

 

Probable? About as probable as me ever running a marathon.

103120[/snapback]

 

Steve,

 

Never say never ever.......

 

I never thought i could ever even run beyond 2 miles.....however I

have successfully completed two marathons under a year and in

decent time too....never ever dreamt that I could do this....

Same goes to the bills...that is what keeps us watching them on

every sunday...

[DeeRay]

The Bills are there now.

 

Dude... we don't know that yet. Sunday's game is a "benchmark" game to see if this team is ready for primetime yet.

 

If the bills win Sun., , that, coupled with the defensive changes (Vincent at FS) and the emergence of Willis, Evans, and the OL., this team may be able to win despite bledsoe. And, it appears that our special teams may be able to steal a game or two. You never know what is going to happen... injuries play a big part in things. If Pennington goes down, the Jets season is over. If Ty Law is out for a while, it changes the whole complexion of the Pats D. With Leftwitch out for a few weeks in Jax, that may put them in a big hole... and if Priest Holmes gets injured... or Marvin Harrison... you just never know how the race will turn out.

 

That's why Sunday's game is pivotal... it's a division game, a revenge game, a "stand up and be counted" game, and a benchmark game. So, they win Sunday... 3-5 at the halfway point? It's significantly better than I would have envisioned 3 weeks ago. Now the Bills magic # becomes 7... they need to win 7 of 8... It all comes back to this Sunday... If the Bills lose.... no question about it... GAME OVER... piss on the fire and call in the dogs, the hunt is over. Start playing as if the slate were wiped clean and next season is just beginning.

[Peter]

Two things...

 

1) I dont' drink unless you consider Dr.Pepper alcoholic.

 

2) I have used a stopwatch. My numbers are correct.

103177[/snapback]

 

1. You have changed your story. In your original post, you wrote about counting it out at a sports bar.

 

2. Get your stopwatch fixed.

 

3. Your original post actually proves my point. Even according to your original post, Drew hardly ever gets four seconds. Four seconds is what he is supposed to get. Otherwise, the o-line and other blockers are not getting their job done.

 

P.S. Now that Willis is the starting RB, I expect that DB's protection will improve given that Willis is 100% better at pass blocking than TH.

[ICE]

LMAO, Thanks Doc for the thesis. Let me do this in a much more shortened version. Play losman as the STARTER, not mopup....STARTER when ready. That should be no later than the Cleveland game due to the nature of his injury.

 

If he is still hurt by then the we have a problem. He is one of the slowest healing guys I have ever heard of.

 

I think it funny. You bash me for saying I have a good idea on the healing time of a broken bone (Something just about everyone knows) but you argue with what Offensive linemen have said to me about how easy it is to move to guard.

 

then you argue like you are The bills HC on how and when JP should come back. Pot calling kettle black to me.

 

Anyway, Bottom line Rothlesburger, Manning and others before him did awfully well doing OJT, not sitting the bench. We need to play him ASAP.

[ICE]

1. You have changed your story.  In your original post, you wrote about counting it out at a sports bar.

 

2. Get your stopwatch fixed. 

 

3. Your original post actually proves my point.  Even according to your original post, Drew hardly ever gets four seconds.  Four seconds is what he is supposed to get.  Otherwise, the o-line and other blockers are not getting their job done.

 

P.S.  Now that Willis is the starting RB, I expect that DB's protection will improve given that Willis is 100% better at pass blocking than TH.

103204[/snapback]

 

 

No I stated WE were counting out loud. I never made mention of a stopwatch until challenged. For those that don't get it, I was holding it back until someone challenged us being able to count.

 

My watch is just fine. Esp when CBS had a live on screen watch showing over 4 seconds as his time to throw. So you are now telling CBS to get their watch fixed.

 

As for your last statement...4 seconds is what he is supposed to get? Since when? QB's are damn lucky to get 3. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

 

 

Bottom line it's Bledsoe. Bottom line start Losman ASAP.

[EndZoneCrew]

Mathematically eliminated.  People keep using this word like it is the end all.  It's not. There is a thing called reality.  Never do I say QUIT, but there comes a point in a football season when you look and you KNOW you don't have a shot at the post season.

 

The Bills are there now. We will NOT Win 8 more games this year. How can you look at this schedule and with a straight face say THIS team will win more than 3-4 more?

 

That said....

 

Play JP starting the Cleveland game.  It is amazing to me how fans will, even in the light of Losman, say sit him a year.  Ok fair enough. We sit him all of this year. Are you ready to sacrifice next year possibly as well?  You might be.  The kid may struggle. (Note: YES JP can have an off season his rookie year and still be BETTER than Rothlesburger. *) Now you have sacrificed part if not all of next year too.

 

Everyone bitches about the OL. Time to give that a rest. Bledsoe HAS TIME.  Numerous times the last 4 weeks we have sat at a local sports bar and you can her the unison chant....one, two, three, and sometimes FOUR.  that would be the seconds we count that Bledsoe has to get rid of the ball.  Any QB that has 3 seconds or more...has more than enough time to throw the ball.  I also think it funny that we have a guy behind the same line that has rushed for 100 yards per game in his two starts as well.

 

My point being we are realisticly done. We can't win on the road. We will not win at NE on the road, forget it. Odds are no way in hell against Seattle on the road as well. It's not quitting to say ok, time to start preping our guys that will be starting next year.  Get JP, WM and Evans 4 straight starts together at the end of the season and it helps greatly going into the next offseason

103105[/snapback]

 

YAWN

[kota]

LOL

[ICE]

YAWN

103230[/snapback]

 

 

If I wanted your oppinion I'd rattle your cage.

 

 

[Peter]

No I stated WE were counting out loud. I never made mention of a stopwatch until challenged. For those that don't get it, I was holding it back until someone challenged us being able to count.

 

My watch is just fine. Esp when CBS had a live on screen watch showing over 4 seconds as his time to throw.  So you are now telling CBS to get their watch fixed.

 

As for your last statement...4 seconds is what he is supposed to get? Since when?  QB's are damn lucky to get 3. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

Bottom line it's Bledsoe.  Bottom line start Losman ASAP.

103213[/snapback]

 

I go by the CBS clock. If the problem is not with your stopwatch, it is with your eyes.

 

As for your last question regarding four seconds, it is fundamental that the goal is to give the QB four seconds -- whether that QB is DB or JP Losman.

 

If you want Losman to prosper, you should start looking our for his interests. It does not serve him (or any other QB) if he does not get the time he is supposed to get. Look at what happened to him at Tulane last year.

 

It is amazing to watch ESPN classic to check out how much time our protection used to give Kelly and Reich. There is a world of difference. It is sad.

 

As I said, however, I think that things will continue to improve with Willis helping out in pass protection.

[DCgirl]

You are fooling yourself about the time that Bledsoe typically gets.  I think that the key word in your paragraph is "sports bar."  Perhaps, you and your friends have had a few too many beverages before you started counting.

 

I have spent a lot of time going over sacks on TIVO to determine how much time Bledsoe typically gets between the snap of the ball and the time the play blows up.  In fact, I posted my analysis of after the Raiders game of each sack.

 

You would be surprised how many times he gets two seconds or less.  And by the way, the goal is four seconds, not three.  Some time ago, I re-posted one of the articles from training camp in which MM emphasized what was expected of the line.  You can google it and find it if you do not believe me.  Four seconds has always been the goal.

103123[/snapback]

 

I was about to respond - wow you have really done a 180 on Bledsoe! Then I realized that you are Peter not Pete. Ok - that makes more sense.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

ICE-you are realistically dead. It's just a matter of time. Except in your case no one knows when the end will come, unlike a football season.

[ICE]

ICE-you are realistically dead.  It's just a matter of time.  Except in your case no one knows when the end will come, unlike a football season.

103452[/snapback]

 

 

To Quote Marv Levy...."from the moment you are born you are dying..."