Cheapskate Ralph and Peters

[BB-Gun]

If Peters does suck, or is below par, why in the world would some team give a 1st and 3rd for a non-top tier player?

 

If I was running the Eagles or Lion, I wouldn't give more than a 3rd for a mediocre LT. On top of that, the original team is trading him because he refuses to play well until he gets paid like th best LT.

This thought process makes no sense!

 

If he does suck, we should release him or get a mid- to late round pick for him.

 

If you feel he garners a 1st round pick, then you feel he is one of the better LT in the league. Why would you trade him so quickly without doing everything you can, within reason, to make him happy?

 

I think he is one of the better LT, and with his short experience at playing LT, I think he can be one of the best LT in the game, after he gets what would make him feel respected, in his mind.

[SABURZFAN]

He had a down year for him because of the holdout, and because the team sucked, and the players next to him sucked.

 

 

 

you hit the nail on the head and it should end right there. anything else after the holdout is an excuse.

[Kelly the Dog]

And you know this how? Based on fan speculation from a message board?

Which part do you want to dispute? Peters wants to get paid, he has said several times and the Bills have said they want to get a deal done. He likes Buffalo, I do know that. There is zero chance that another team is going to pay a #1 and a #3 and get a disgruntled player who is going to sit out their training camp, too, because he is being underpaid. They will have to renegotiate first, that happens with all big trades like this, if there is a contract issue.

[Jeffery Lester]

11.5 million, for giving up 11.5 sacks. Well at least the numbers are consistent.

[nucci]

care to make a wager on that first statement? The salary cap is about 63% of defined gross revenues. TV contract money gets paid to the league, which distributes it to the teams.

So if the salary cap is about $126M, each individual team is getting $200M from the league through TV contracts, merchandise sales, etc..all of which is shared around the league.

You are forgetting about luxury box and suite revenue. This money is not shared but does raise the cap and is not covered by the TV contracts.

[Bufcomments]

Well said Kelly. I love the spin about Bell and Walker being able replacements much like we heard about Jerry Crafts, Corey Loucey and Marcus Price as they stepped in for establsihed pro's, we know how badly that turned out. Sign Peters and lets draft a few needs rather than create another one.

Im positive the Bills want to sign Peters and I think 10 million will do it

But you have to ask yourself and I'm sure the Bills had to ask themselfs ...does this guy really want to play in Buffalo??

His actions over the last year and 1/2 it seems like he is a greedy me first type of player

You have to earn your money in this league and I dont think that missing OTAs and training camp has helped him one bit.

If he had came to all the team functions last year he would have been in a better position to ask for 11 millionbecause he would have been in game shape and would be an legit all-pro.

But by not coming to camp and having a sub-par year has hurt Peters and I dont think he realizes that.

 

But your right to say by him leaving it would create another hole but the NFL is a cold business

Chambers, draft pick or Bell, Hangartner, Bulter and Walker would be our line.

Could it be any worse than it was last year?? when are line was just average even with Peters???

 

I say if a deal isnt done before the draft I think the Bills will trade him because we all can see he is going to hold out again and that would hurt the team just as bad say if he wasnt here at all.

 

my 6 cents because i posted to another thread and started one on peters

[keepthefaith]

Well said Kelly. I love the spin about Bell and Walker being able replacements much like we heard about Jerry Crafts, Corey Loucey and Marcus Price as they stepped in for establsihed pro's, we know how badly that turned out. Sign Peters and lets draft a few needs rather than create another one.

 

Yes, if the next Bills head coach will want him, then sign the guy.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I get the impression that Ralph cannot win with the fans. He is either a cheapskate or over-paid for a player. I'm not a huge Ralph Wilson fan, but I've never seen him on the sidelines on game day, and never seen him miss a tackle either.

 

Granted, Bills do not spend money like the Giants, Redskins, and Cowboys. But, we have a much bigger scouting staff than the Bengals, and do spend more on free-agents than the Steelers. Also, we have the cheapest tickets in the NFL. We may be able to afford more for salaries if Bills fans spent money like the Redskins fans.

 

With that being said,... OK, let me have it.

 

It's too bad the OP (excerpted above) even mentioned our left tackle. It diluted from the original premise of the post.

 

On balance I am not a Ralph Wilson fan. I acknowledge the contributions he made as a pioneer in the AFL, in helping merge the two leagues, and his positions on several issues (most recently the revenue sharing formula for the teams).

 

That said I think he is a bad owner. But my opinion is not based on how much money he has or hasn't spent. It is based on his "management style" for want of a better word.

 

I think his impetuous and personal style of management has alienated him from valuable employees who have contributed greatly to what little success this organization has had (Lou Saban, Cookie Gilchrist, Bill Polian, John Butler). The flip side of the personal relationship formula Ralph uses has caused him to hire people like Harvey Johnson, Stew Barber, and Patrick McGroder for positions that they were very arguably not qualified for. The most recent examples of Ralph putting his own personal comfort ahead of performance and qualifications is the hiring of Marv as GM and Russ Brandon as COO/GM.

 

If you look at our history as a franchise, Ralph has made many more bad hires than good ones. This, not his reputed thriftiness is what makes him a bad owner in my opinion. Moreover, hire good, qualified professionals and more often than not you will get good results.

[billsfreak]

I don't think it matters whether you are a cheapskate owner or an owner that throws money around like candy (Daniel Snyder), no owner should or probably would pay a LT as the highest in the NFL when he is coming off probably the worst season of any LT in the NFL. The bottom line is, it just isn't smart business now matter who you are. I don't have a problem in giving Peters a raise, but giving him what he is asking for would be ridiculous.

[VJ91]

Lets give Peters 10% + of all our available salary cap money while he represents ~2% of the players, seems like a great idea. He only has a few years left on his contract and after statistically having a horrible year, he deserves triple his current salary instead of double.

 

Cut this loser now and let's find higher ground while he is still valued by others. He can convince them that he deserves the highest salary at his position and nothing less will do.

 

Higher ground? What does that mean? Has Peters become a criminal now? Who did he shoot, himself? A photographer?

 

And stop with this 11 sacks allowed crap! I watched every game last season. I did not watch Peters' assigned man blow around him 11 freakin' times for easy sacks! This sacks allowed stat is about as stupid as the "hits" stat in hockey. Here's one point nobody wants to bring up about "sacks allowed": You know those LT's who are so much more talented then Peters on your sacks-allowed list? How many times were they beat clean, only to have the running back chip out and keep the guy away from the QB just long enough for him to get the pass out of his hands?!? Or, how many times did the QB escape the guy who blew right around the "more talented" LT and get the pass off, thus, no sack being counted against the "more talented LT"?!?

 

If the Bills don't offer Peters a better contract worth a Pro Bowl caliber left tackle before training camp, they only have themselves to blame.

[billsfreak]

Higher ground? What does that mean? Has Peters become a criminal now? Who did he shoot, himself? A photographer?

 

And stop with this 11 sacks allowed crap! I watched every game last season. I did not watch Peters' assigned man blow around him 11 freakin' times for easy sacks! This sacks allowed stat is about as stupid as the "hits" stat in hockey. Here's one point nobody wants to bring up about "sacks allowed": You know those LT's who are so much more talented then Peters on your sacks-allowed list? How many times were they beat clean, only to have the running back chip out and keep the guy away from the QB just long enough for him to get the pass out of his hands?!? Or, how many times did the QB escape the guy who blew right around the "more talented" LT and get the pass off, thus, no sack being counted against the "more talented LT"?!?

 

If the Bills don't offer Peters a better contract worth a Pro Bowl caliber left tackle before training camp, they only have themselves to blame.

Ask a quarterback while they are in a hot tub on monday morning if Sacks Allowed is a "stupid" stat. Not too many of them will agree with you. They might only have themselves to thank too, if they get rid of him.

[cody]

salaries aren't determined by ticket money. There's a salary cap that requires that every team spend a minimum amount up to a maximum. Every team gets the same amount of money from the league to cover their player payrolls and then some. If we paid more for tickets (the fanbase, as a whole, couldn't afford it, anyway), it would have no bearing on how much we'd be able to spend on players.

 

Someone with a large amount of time on thier hands, there are many of them out there, should look at the actual amount of money Ralph has paid to players over the past 10 years and compair that to the actual amount of money other teams have paid out to players in the past 10 years.

 

I do not think Ralph spends much less than other owners. I think he spends it in the wrong places.

[Kelly the Dog]

Ask a quarterback while they are in a hot tub on monday morning if Sacks Allowed is a "stupid" stat. Not too many of them will agree with you. They might only have themselves to thank too, if they get rid of him.

I will bet any amount of money you can think of that Trent Edwards desperately wants the Bills to sign Peters to a long term deal.

[atlbillsfan1975]

I will bet any amount of money you can think of that Trent Edwards desperately wants the Bills to sign Peters to a long term deal.

I bet Trent does too. But i bet he understands that by signing Peters to the kind of money it appears he wants, would stop the Bills from being able to sign other guys on the team. Heck maybe even Trent. If you give Peters an 11-11.5 million dollar deal. Then you will be restricting yourself for years. What happens when Trent comes up for FA or Lynch or or even next year when Freddie wants a 3 year deal. If he plays well in the two back rotation like he did last year. He would be a prime example of a guy the Bills would like to keep but that extra 2.5 million a year for Peters stops them.

Guys i think we all want Peters,if he could have been signed for the right price and had gone about his bussiness the right way. He hasn't so try to get the most for him and move on. And yes i understand the risk of rookies and all. But there are a lot of first day drafted LT in the league right now doing very good. Peters just might allow the Bills to build a better team, instead of being the reason they fall apart.

[Kelly the Dog]

I bet Trent does too. But i bet he understands that by signing Peters to the kind of money it appears he wants, would stop the Bills from being able to sign other guys on the team. Heck maybe even Trent. If you give Peters an 11-11.5 million dollar deal. Then you will be restricting yourself for years. What happens when Trent comes up for FA or Lynch or or even next year when Freddie wants a 3 year deal. If he plays well in the two back rotation like he did last year. He would be a prime example of a guy the Bills would like to keep but that extra 2.5 million a year for Peters stops them.

Guys i think we all want Peters,if he could have been signed for the right price and had gone about his bussiness the right way. He hasn't so try to get the most for him and move on. And yes i understand the risk of rookies and all. But there are a lot of first day drafted LT in the league right now doing very good. Peters just might allow the Bills to build a better team, instead of being the reason they fall apart.

The Bills have 1-2 superstar salaries on their team, if you count Schobel's, which isn't outrageous. Evans is really the only one. TO's 6.5 is fairly high but only one year. They can afford to pay Peters without it killing them cap wise.

[The Senator]

Loadholt

[BB-Gun]

It's too bad the OP (excerpted above) even mentioned our left tackle. It diluted from the original premise of the post.

 

On balance I am not a Ralph Wilson fan. I acknowledge the contributions he made as a pioneer in the AFL, in helping merge the two leagues, and his positions on several issues (most recently the revenue sharing formula for the teams).

 

That said I think he is a bad owner. But my opinion is not based on how much money he has or hasn't spent. It is based on his "management style" for want of a better word.

 

I think his impetuous and personal style of management has alienated him from valuable employees who have contributed greatly to what little success this organization has had (Lou Saban, Cookie Gilchrist, Bill Polian, John Butler). The flip side of the personal relationship formula Ralph uses has caused him to hire people like Harvey Johnson, Stew Barber, and Patrick McGroder for positions that they were very arguably not qualified for. The most recent examples of Ralph putting his own personal comfort ahead of performance and qualifications is the hiring of Marv as GM and Russ Brandon as COO/GM.

 

If you look at our history as a franchise, Ralph has made many more bad hires than good ones. This, not his reputed thriftiness is what makes him a bad owner in my opinion. Moreover, hire good, qualified professionals and more often than not you will get good results.

Thank you for your very good insight. This is the kind of discussion I wanted.

I agree with you that he has made a lot of bad decisions, but it could be worse. We could have Al Davis or Mike Brown (Bengals) as owners.

I don't feel we had a great GM since Wilson alienated Bill Polian. Butler did okay job with drafting, and Donohoe did a terrible job with drafting. Our current front office seems to be doing pretty well so far. Better than their 2 predecessors.

I feel Wilson is meddling and impetuous owner, but isn't that the characteristics of many CEOs?

What I don't agree with is when people blame the Bills problems on Wilson being cheap or that he over-paid players. How can he be cheap and over-spend at the same time. He just makes some bad football decisions.

 

I look forward to your response.

[GR8PRKN]

Thank you for your very good insight. This is the kind of discussion I wanted.

I agree with you that he has made a lot of bad decisions, but it could be worse. We could have Al Davis or Mike Brown (Bengals) as owners.

I don't feel we had a great GM since Wilson alienated Bill Polian. Butler did okay job with drafting, and Donohoe did a terrible job with drafting. Our current front office seems to be doing pretty well so far. Better than their 2 predecessors.

I feel Wilson is meddling and impetuous owner, but isn't that the characteristics of many CEOs?

What I don't agree with is when people blame the Bills problems on Wilson being cheap or that he over-paid players. How can he be cheap and over-spend at the same time. He just makes some bad football decisions.

 

I look forward to your response.

 

True! You can not say he is cheep. He pays players that show up and work. Kelsey is not an allstar but he is a Bill in Ralfs eyes, therfore he got paid. Jason would do him self a great benifit to his pocket book if he showed up and showed he wants to be part of this organization.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

That said I think he is a bad owner. But my opinion is not based on how much money he has or hasn't spent. It is based on his "management style" for want of a better word.

 

If you look at our history as a franchise, Ralph has made many more bad hires than good ones. This, not his reputed thriftiness is what makes him a bad owner in my opinion. Moreover, hire good, qualified professionals and more often than not you will get good results.

 

 

Someone should look at the actual amount of money Ralph has paid to players over the past 10 years and compair that to the actual amount of money other teams have paid out to players in the past 10 years.

 

I do not think Ralph spends much less than other owners. I think he spends it in the wrong places.

 

 

Thank you for your very good insight. This is the kind of discussion I wanted.

I agree with you that he has made a lot of bad decisions, but it could be worse. We could have Al Davis or Mike Brown (Bengals) as owners.

I don't feel we had a great GM since Wilson alienated Bill Polian. Butler did okay job with drafting, and Donohoe did a terrible job with drafting. Our current front office seems to be doing pretty well so far. Better than their 2 predecessors.

I feel Wilson is meddling and impetuous owner, but isn't that the characteristics of many CEOs?

What I don't agree with is when people blame the Bills problems on Wilson being cheap or that he over-paid players. How can he be cheap and over-spend at the same time. He just makes some bad football decisions.

 

Well I agree that Ralph is not the worst owner in the league and to some degree this team, whether people want to admit it or not are at a disadvantage due to their market. I still feel Ralph is in the bottom third of owners. In addition to the owners you mention, the Ford family have been spectacular failures at managing the Lions. Until last year the Bidwells and the Cardinals were a joke. Daniel Snyder is the best example in the NFL of how spending lavishly gets poor results unless that money is accompanied by good decision making.

 

As for the current front office, Russ is in just his 15th month so I cut him some slack. But the handling of the Crowell situation last year was IMO Brandon's attempt to "blow the airhorn" a la Gregg Williams...in other words make a statement about his toughness. His statement to Crowell was "we wanted you to do this surgery months ago and now you wanna do it now? Screw you. I'm gonna spite you by putting you on IR." A more secure person might not have alienated Crowell who didn't have surgery till weeks after he was placed on IR. The prognosis for the surgery at the time was Crowell would miss 2-4 weeks. The move hurt the Bills as a team and poisoned the well for future dealings with Crowell. It was needless. Yeah Brandon showed everyone. The question is what did he show them?

 

Brandon can piss and whine as much as he wants about how the Peters camp was uncommunicative but that does not absolve him of his share of the blame for not being more proactive and determined to open a dialogue...instead tolerating months of silence. Whatever your position on Peters, Brandon did not do enough to confront the situation. On the board in his office should be a prioritized list of his biggest challenges. Peters should have been at the top of that list last December. Brandon used the approach Darcy Regier used towards Chris Drury, Daniel Briere, too little too late. Now it's going to cost him a lot more.

 

I also thought Brandon could have signed Jabbari Greer to a contract last year at this time that would have kept him in Buffalo for much cheaper than he signed for in New Orleans. Brandon's latest challenge is the re-signing of Fred Jackson who the best posters on this site agreed about 6 weeks ago should make about $2.5 million per year over a 3 year contract. I hope the Bills aren't lowballing him to the point of alienating him. That would be the worst case scenario.

 

So yes, the new regime cannot be judged absolutely right now. But most of Ralph's major hires have been misses.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

p.s.--I thought Brandon also mishandled the Jauron "did he or didn't he sign an extension" situation last season.