SKOOBY Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Please answer this question your own way and let's debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 You need to be put down. Maybe a computer infection or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 You need to be put down. Maybe a computer infection or something. Â Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Please answer this question your own way and let's debate. Â They can stay...if they repay all the taxpayer money they got through the year? Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 They can stay...if they repay all the taxpayer money they got through the year? Â Â There's thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefan66 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Bills can stay in the Buffalo / Niagara region if...... Â Ralph sells the team to a local investor and our per capita income rises by tens of thousands of dollars..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Please answer this question your own way and let's debate. Divine Intervention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Skooby lends the team some of his cash to build a new stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefan66 Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Skooby lends the team some of his cash to build a new stadium. Â First he'd have to sell his car.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellDressed Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 ......WILL stay once you exit stage left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 They'll stay if he surround the stadium with torches and pitchforks ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Please answer this question your own way and let's debate. If we designate Toronto as part of the Buffalo/Niagara region? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKOOBY Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 If we designate Toronto as part of the Buffalo/Niagara region? Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 If people flood Roger Goddell's mailbox with letters asking him to put corporate ownership on the table. Then 24 of the 32 owners would have to sign off on it. Highly unlikely, but I'm going to write my letter any day now. Â http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3534671 Â This has also been addressed...sorta: http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=69624 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Please answer this question your own way and let's debate. IF they take my suggestion...and build a new stadium on Indian land near Niagara Falls....have wild west shows before and after the games....make it a theme place. Buffalo Bill Cody will not be spinning in his grave--and the Indians will win this time around. Smoke signals go up an hour before the game and a day before the game...the businesses on the REZ will thrive and the Bills will get Great Spirit blessings. How could anyone object??? People would come from around the world to see the Bills. Corporate sponsorship would be a breeze. It would come from Asia,Europe etc. And we could tell Toronto to bug offf...I mean the city not the fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax bill backer Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Really there is no way the bills will be staying in buffalo for more than 4 years. toronto can handle a football team maybe even two if they wanted... not enough high end luxury boxes at the ralph where people in toronto can spend 3,000 dollars a game on a seat at sky dome... but the one and only way it might be possible to stay is if Golisano buys the team..he is our only hope...Toronto is a fooball players paradise/great hotels/ absolute great nightlife/ and buffalo is no where near that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Most likely, they end up in Toronto, but if they stayed in WNY, they would probably move to a new stadium closer to the border ... still, unlikely given the economic climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I would honestly trade SKOOBY for a message boarder from the Jonas Brothers message board. Clearly anyone is an upgrade. I want to know how many threads he has started. The over under is 250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Really there is no way the bills will be staying in buffalo for more than 4 years. toronto can handle a football team maybe even two if they wanted... not enough high end luxury boxes at the ralph where people in toronto can spend 3,000 dollars a game on a seat at sky dome... but the one and only way it might be possible to stay is if Golisano buys the team..he is our only hope...Toronto is a fooball players paradise/great hotels/ absolute great nightlife/ and buffalo is no where near that   Toronto hasn't proven to be a place that can properly support a CFL franchise, let alone an NFL team. The attendance figures are pitiful. The only way the Bills "sold out" was from Rogers buying an inordinate number, so the event wouldn't look like a total disaster.  The main champion of the drive to get the Bills, Edward S. Rogers, died last December, and the world is reeling from financial problems.  I don't think a move anywhere, let alone Toronto, is likely, in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax bill backer Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Toronto hasn't proven to be a place that can properly support a CFL franchise, let alone an NFL team. The attendance figures are pitiful. The only way the Bills "sold out" was from Rogers buying an inordinate number, so the event wouldn't look like a total disaster. Â The main champion of the drive to get the Bills, Edward S. Rogers, died last December, and the world is reeling from financial problems. Â I don't think a move anywhere, let alone Toronto, is likely, in the near future. Â But you have to remember that there are a lot of sports teams that dont have a supporting attendence record all the time.. For example, the blue jays and raptors dont get any attendence... but there still there. its because Toronto is a major city not only in Canada but the whole entire world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damj Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 But you have to remember that there are a lot of sports teams that dont have a supporting attendence record all the time.. For example, the blue jays and raptors dont get any attendence... but there still there. its because Toronto is a major city not only in Canada but the whole entire world And fans don't count any more in the new economic model for the NFL ... it's about the corporate sponsorships ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 But you have to remember that there are a lot of sports teams that dont have a supporting attendence record all the time.. For example, the blue jays and raptors dont get any attendence... but there still there. its because Toronto is a major city not only in Canada but the whole entire world    And fans don't count any more in the new economic model for the NFL ... it's about the corporate sponsorships ...   Apparently too many people here don't understand the TV rights situation, and how important the local telecast is, in order to make the system work. If games don't sell out, they don't get televised locally, and the bulk of their potential viewership is lost. That impacts the advertising rates, which in fact impacts the amount the networks pay to the NFL...the TV rights are the fuel that drives the NFL machine.  LA doesn't have a team, for Christ's sake. If that doesn't explain what fan attendance means to the NFL, I guess I can't help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Apparently too many people here don't understand the TV rights situation, and how important the local telecast is, in order to make the system work. If games don't sell out, they don't get televised locally, and the bulk of their potential viewership is lost. That impacts the advertising rates, which in fact impacts the amount the networks pay to the NFL...the TV rights are the fuel that drives the NFL machine. LA doesn't have a team, for Christ's sake. If that doesn't explain what fan attendance means to the NFL, I guess I can't help you.   Toronto would have no problem supporting an NFL team, just not Buffalo's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 First he'd have to sell his car.... Â The car thing is really worn out, and so are my attacks on Jauron. Â Bills can stay in the Buffalo/Niagara region if..... Â 1. Jauron is replaced soon 2. Ralph or his estate make it a priority to keep the team in the area. 3. There is a buyer or group that can rationalize buying the team at something close to FMV and keeping it in WNY. 4. NYS and the County provide an economically friendly environment for the team knowing that there is a postivie economic impact by having the Bills stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Toronto would have no problem supporting an NFL team, just not Buffalo's. Â Â The evidence to date, suggests otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 The evidence to date, suggests otherwise. Â Â All evidence has been related to the Bills. The Bills haven't been able to sell out all their games in Orchard Park, what makes you think they should be able to do it in Toronto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vizslafan Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I moved to Dallas from Williamsville in 1981. Have stayed loyal all these years, I would hate to see the Bills move away. I have proudly worn my Bills jersey before the super bowls and the day of the Monday night game last year. I tried to take some heat for the homeland - screw the Cowboys. Â That said, the major thing that will cause them to go is Money, or lack of it in Western, NY. When I come back for a visit I notice things that are quite different to me but may have seemed normal if I had stayed. The thing that stands out the most is Celino & Barnes. They have commercials on all the radio stations, there own little jingle, I have even seen them advertise on the ribbon at Rich (can see from Direct TV). They supposedly had $100M in settlements last year. Think of that as $100M in jobs moving away from the area and all that wealth being transferred to about 30 lwayers and their clients. Yea some of it was legit but I am sure the personal injury laws in NYS are tilted help the clients and lawyers make money. I am sure there are a lot more of these firms out there. By the way the 30 lawyers each cleared $1M on average. Â The economy is bad all over but why would a company locate in Western, NY? People are great and there is an available work force but NYS is a costly place to do business. Maybe some type of uprising is in order to get WNY set up so companies will move there. I would help you guys if I could.. Â I like to look at the posts on this board and everybody complaining about Jauron & Wilson. The Cowboys situation is way beyond any disfunction the Bills have ever had: - Wade Phillips as coach - He still does not practice special teams - The entire Bills coaching staff is an upgrade - Jerry Jones - Be very happy with Ralph Wilson. Jerry is in this for ego and money. We have a new stadium here, oh yea the PSL for a good seat is $150,000 each. How many of those would sell in Buffalo? Also you have to buy the tickets after the $150k. When was the last time that Ralph hired all the assistants, checked the waiver wire, had his own radio show...on and on and on..Jerry is insane to a degree. Â I guess I had to make a first post sometime. Thanks for giving me an avenue for my Bills Fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 All evidence has been related to the Bills. The Bills haven't been able to sell out all their games in Orchard Park, what makes you think they should be able to do it in Toronto? Â The Bills sell out nearly every game they play. Were any games not sold out, the past two years? If so, how many? Â Toronto can't sell out Argo games. What makes you think they can sell out NFL games? Â My point remains, there is no evidence to suggest TO can support football of any kind (if by support, we mean "sell out the games") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 The Bills sell out nearly every game they play. Were any games not sold out, the past two years? If so, how many? Toronto can't sell out Argo games. What makes you think they can sell out NFL games?  My point remains, there is no evidence to suggest TO can support football of any kind (if by support, we mean "sell out the games")   I have been to many games over the past years with many empty seats (thousands actually). Yes the last couple of seasons they have sold out (maybe a couple didn't).  What does the CFL have to do with the NFL? The NFL is the greatest sports product available, the CFL is a joke. You can't sellout CFL games in the Rogers centre. Any idea what the average CFL attendance is? Not even close to 56,000.  Toronto doesn't care about the Buffalo Bills. I'm saying if Toronto had it's own team, it would be supported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I have been to many games over the past years with many empty seats (thousands actually). Yes the last couple of seasons they have sold out (maybe a couple didn't). What does the CFL have to do with the NFL? The NFL is the greatest sports product available, the CFL is a joke. You can't sellout CFL games in the Rogers centre. Any idea what the average CFL attendance is? Not even close to 56,000.  Toronto doesn't care about the Buffalo Bills. I'm saying if Toronto had it's own team, it would be supported.   I know you are saying that, but you have yet to show any evidence to support that...that's all I'm saying. You can think it, hell it might be true, but all of the available evidence suggests otherwise.  The CFL is Canada's NFL. It is the best available comparison, under the circumstances. They HAVE their own team, and don't support it. They also do a fairly crappy job of supporting teams in other sports, other than the Leafs.  What would be interesting is to see what the TV ratings are in Toronto for the NFL vs the Argos' games. That might give us reason to conclude they would support the NFL more than they would the CFL. But, until I see that evidence, I have yet to see any evidence that supports what you seem to take for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I know you are saying that, but you have yet to show any evidence to support that...that's all I'm saying. You can think it, hell it might be true, but all of the available evidence suggests otherwise. The CFL is Canada's NFL. It is the best available comparison, under the circumstances. They HAVE their own team, and don't support it. They also do a fairly crappy job of supporting teams in other sports, other than the Leafs.  What would be interesting is to see what the TV ratings are in Toronto for the NFL vs the Argos' games. That might give us reason to conclude they would support the NFL more than they would the CFL. But, until I see that evidence, I have yet to see any evidence that supports what you seem to take for granted.   Of course I can't show evidence; Toronto doesn't have an NFL team.  The CFL is not Canada's NFL, the NFL is huge in Canada these days. The CFL has been left behind with a bunch of old men who refuse to stop watching their teams and when the older fans die-off, so will the CFL.  While checking out TV ratings sounds like a good idea, actually you are looking at ratings of people watching someone else's NFL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Of course I can't show evidence; Toronto doesn't have an NFL team. Â The CFL is not Canada's NFL, the NFL is huge in Canada these days. The CFL has been left behind with a bunch of old men who refuse to stop watching their teams and when the older fans die-off, so will the CFL. Â While checking out TV ratings sounds like a good idea, actually you are looking at ratings of people watching someone else's NFL team. Â Â Â The other thing to keep in mind is, if the NFL ever decides to put a team in Canada, and let's say Toronto, it is unlikely they would move an established NFL team (and lose the viewing from a US market...even one as small as Buffalo), they would almost certainly EXPAND to a Canadian city. So far, I would guess the lack of enthusiasm for the Bills isn't pushing that agenda as quickly as if the game had been a big hit. But, it was the first regular season game, so there is still time for that experiment to work, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 The other thing to keep in mind is, if the NFL ever decides to put a team in Canada, and let's say Toronto, it is unlikely they would move an established NFL team (and lose the viewing from a US market...even one as small as Buffalo), they would almost certainly EXPAND to a Canadian city. So far, I would guess the lack of enthusiasm for the Bills isn't pushing that agenda as quickly as if the game had been a big hit. But, it was the first regular season game, so there is still time for that experiment to work, I suppose.   I expect Toronto to eventually get an NFL team, I just hope it's not because Buffalo loses one. I agree that the league will likely expand to Toronto, unless the Bills become available. If the Bills are for sale at some point, I think the NFL would like to see the team move to Toronto in an attempt to keep some of that viewing audience in the Western New York area as well as the already large fan base in Canada  Yah last years game was not a huge success, however I feel some of that can be attributed to the marketing plan for the games. I know a lot of people in Canada were kinda put-out by the way they were forced to purchase multiple game packages as well as the pricing of those packages.  There are many things that affect the success of the Bills in Toronto series, including the quality of the teams on the field. I just don't think that you can judge how successful the NFL will be in Canada by last years game and I'm sure the NFL doesn't want Canadians to judge the quality of NFL football based on that one game either. I guess time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Of course I can't show evidence; Toronto doesn't have an NFL team. Â The CFL is not Canada's NFL, the NFL is huge in Canada these days. The CFL has been left behind with a bunch of old men who refuse to stop watching their teams and when the older fans die-off, so will the CFL. Â While checking out TV ratings sounds like a good idea, actually you are looking at ratings of people watching someone else's NFL team. I'm going to guess two things about you, if you don't mind: you live in Ontario, and you're 40 or under. I recently talked to a friend who used to write for the Calgary Sun, and she laughed -- hard -- at the idea that the NFL would ever supplant the CFL in popularity out in the Prairies. Â COTU, now, that's a different question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'm going to guess two things about you, if you don't mind: you live in Ontario, and you're 40 or under. I recently talked to a friend who used to write for the Calgary Sun, and she laughed -- hard -- at the idea that the NFL would ever supplant the CFL in popularity out in the Prairies. Â COTU, now, that's a different question. Â Â You are correct. I have no doubt that the CFL is more popular in the prairies, but I'm not sure of your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 You are correct. I have no doubt that the CFL is more popular in the prairies, but I'm not sure of your point? My point is, the CFL may well leave Toronto with or without an NFL franchise shoving it out the door, but I don't think the league itself goes anywhere. And I'm not so sure you're correct about the old-men-dying-off comments once you start heading West; the writer I talked to is still in her mid-30s. Â JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 My point is, the CFL may well leave Toronto with or without an NFL franchise shoving it out the door, but I don't think the league itself goes anywhere. And I'm not so sure you're correct about the old-men-dying-off comments once you start heading West; the writer I talked to is still in her mid-30s. JMO.   I would be willing to bet her father was a CFL fan, no? There are die-hard fans across this country who believe the CFL is better football (my father was one of them) but as younger generations are exposed to the NFL and make up there own minds, I think the CFL will take a back seat.  For years the talk in the Canada is that the CFL may not survive without the "anchor" franchise as they call it, in Toronto. They league has been in trouble before and if it loses one more team, that could spell the end. How many times can Calgary play Edmonton a year before people lose interest.  The fact that the NFL has done a great job (at least in the east) of promoting the game, as well as fantasy pools and pro-line sports betting, has really put the focus on NFL football. I am 37 years old and almost everyone I know who is a football fan, watches some CFL and Loves the NFL. In my home town if you want to watch the NFL, you go to the pub, if you want to watch the CFL, you go to the Elks club. I think that speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Again, though, I think that might not be true in the western half of your country. (Or so I've been told by people who live there. I freely admit to having no first-hand knowledge here; my family moved south in 1880.) Â And if you put any stock in the Star -- I leave that decision up to you -- it says that "if you believe in TV numbers, they indicate these days that within the all-important demographic of 18- to 34-year-olds, the CFL is enjoying a surge in popularity." Â http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Football/article/542273 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Again, though, I think that might not be true in the western half of your country. (Or so I've been told by people who live there. I freely admit to having no first-hand knowledge here; my family moved south in 1880.)Â And if you put any stock in the Star -- I leave that decision up to you -- it says that "if you believe in TV numbers, they indicate these days that within the all-important demographic of 18- to 34-year-olds, the CFL is enjoying a surge in popularity." Â http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Football/article/542273 Â Â Did you check out some of the comments? Â Another excellent find, Lori. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Again, though, I think that might not be true in the western half of your country. (Or so I've been told by people who live there. I freely admit to having no first-hand knowledge here; my family moved south in 1880.) And if you put any stock in the Star -- I leave that decision up to you -- it says that "if you believe in TV numbers, they indicate these days that within the all-important demographic of 18- to 34-year-olds, the CFL is enjoying a surge in popularity."  http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Football/article/542273  First of all, you must be old  No question about that west of Ontario (where most of the teams are) but things are different in Ontario. A couple of years ago when the Grey Cup was held in Toronto, you could still get tickets the week of the game, I don't think you will see that next year out west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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