auburnbillsbacker Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 The cover two was an effective defense last year, especially if you look at the holes we have. DE: With Schobel out the bills were left with one average starter and one below average starter. DT: Stroud and Williams are not bad, but far from elite. LB: No pro bowlers, 2 ok-good starters and one major hole Safety: Whitner is fine, the second starter is sub par. Corner: Great depth, but no stars Now consider this -2 out of the last 3 years the bills have been in the top ten in points allowed -The defense was ranked in the top half last year -Teams that use the cover 2 as their base utilize other formations 55% of the time. I think Ralph Wilson was right, the bills lack talent. If we can find a pass rusher, a safety, and an olb the defense should be very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 as much as i dislike it.... i cant really argue against it, they did statistically make a significant improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Maybe it's the lack of players or is it the lack of execution. I can't say I'm a big fan of the Cover Two. It may have hurt / cost this team a voctory ot two each season. WHY oh why does the defense not bump receivers at the LOS? The 5 yard buffer is not working IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 Maybe it's the lack of players or is it the lack of execution. I can't say I'm a big fan of the Cover Two. It may have hurt / cost this team a voctory ot two each season. WHY oh why does the defense not bump receivers at the LOS? The 5 yard buffer is not working IMO It is frustrating at times. The defense is trying to prevent big plays. The goal is to make teams go on long extended drives, that will hopefully end due to a sack, penalty or turnover. It is the jobs of the corners not to get beat deep. This is easier to do if the corner is off the ball. If you look at most bills games, they give up a lot of yards, but not a lot of points. If the bills find 2 good pass rushers, more drives will end due to sack. The bills still need a gap penetrating dt and another good rushing end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 The Tampa 2 is proven to be a defense that works, if you have the right pieces in place. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Colts and Bears have all had tremendous success and either made it to or won the super bowl. All in the last decade! The key is getting pressure to the qb, and that is our problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 To some extent, the scheme doesn't matter - the bottom line is getting a good pass rush for four rushers. Once you can pull that off, you can blitz with an element of surprise, since it's not requisite, and you can leave seven in coverage and prevent completions and grab picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 The cover two was an effective defense last year, especially if you look at the holes we have. DE: With Schobel out the bills were left with one average starter and one below average starter. DT: Stroud and Williams are not bad, but far from elite. LB: No pro bowlers, 2 ok-good starters and one major hole Safety: Whitner is fine, the second starter is sub par. Corner: Great depth, but no stars Now consider this -2 out of the last 3 years the bills have been in the top ten in points allowed -The defense was ranked in the top half last year -Teams that use the cover 2 as their base utilize other formations 55% of the time. I think Ralph Wilson was right, the bills lack talent. If we can find a pass rusher, a safety, and an olb the defense should be very good. De: 1 quality starter with Schobel healthy nothing much after that DT: Not sold on Kyle Williams as a starter. He would be more effective, in a reduced role. Would like to see improved depth LB: Stiffs. I'm not gonna bury Poz as a bust cause it's early in his career, but what I've seen isn't all that encouraging. Right now Kawika Mitchell is our best lb. He's good in a supporting role. As your best defensive playmaker you have issues. In a matter of a few short years LB went from a serious strength to a glaring weakness. I don't think it's as bad as our dline issues, but it's far from an area of strength CB: I'm fine with who we have. Area of strength. Mcgee/McKelvin/Florence/Youboty/Corner. We could do far worse. Would like to see Ashton stay healthy, he was really coming on strong last year. Nothing signifcant needed S: I dont believe this is as bad as people make it out to be. I'm ok with Whitner he's solid. Yeah we could use more of a ballhawking FS, but it's not a terrible situation. All in all, We're incredibly weak in the front 7. With a bad mix, of underwhelming aging vets, green behind the ears mlb, an inconsistent lb, and now no one to man the other olb spot. The front 7 of this defense has been screaming for upgrades for years. It's only going to get worse. I'm not sold on statistical rankings. I believe this defense in its true form, is more in line with the caliber of play they put up against the Likes of the Patriots, then being 1-2 players away from being a top 10 playoff or better d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyDingo Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Statistically speaking, coupled with the lack of balls, my aunt makes a great uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 The cover two was an effective defense last year, especially if you look at the holes we have. DE: With Schobel out the bills were left with one average starter and one below average starter. DT: Stroud and Williams are not bad, but far from elite. LB: No pro bowlers, 2 ok-good starters and one major hole Safety: Whitner is fine, the second starter is sub par. Corner: Great depth, but no stars Now consider this -2 out of the last 3 years the bills have been in the top ten in points allowed -The defense was ranked in the top half last year -Teams that use the cover 2 as their base utilize other formations 55% of the time. I think Ralph Wilson was right, the bills lack talent. If we can find a pass rusher, a safety, and an olb the defense should be very good. I think this is the most interesting point and I wonder if this is the real problem with our defense. If the coaches did a better job of mixing up cover 2 calls with man under calls, straight man calls (blitzes), and coverage calls, they might have better sucess against offenses. For example, if the team did play press coverage every once in a while, the offense would be surprises and it might even lead to a turnover. Part of my problem with the cover 2, at least the way we play it, is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of strategy: the DL rushes the passer through their gaps, while the LBs plug for run plays and cover for pass. What I don't get is why they don't try to incorporate a little 2 gap scheme as well. In this way, they could be less predictable while still looking rpetty much the same on defense. Now for those who say that we don't have guys to do a bit of a 2 gap scheme, I say that is true if we were to run it a lot, but I am thinking more of running it maybe 10% of the plays over a season. This way, we would be less predictable and it might help us to get a pass rush, since we could hopefully tie up an extra interior linemen and get some free on the outside. Just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Statistically speaking, coupled with the lack of balls, my aunt makes a great uncle. That's funny sh--. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 The key is getting pressure to the qb, and that is our problem. Bingo.....dingdingdingding! We have a winner. Either: 1. Fewell was calling Blitzes and the defense was SO bad, you couldn't even tell or 2. Fewell called 1 Blitz per game. Maybe two if he was feeling dangerous. I'm going with #2. The defense looked better than the year before, but at the same time, gave up huge yardage (Denver, KC) as well as letting teams crank off 7, 8 and 9 minute stake-through-the-heart drives in the fourth quarter. However, after the giant nose dive at 5-1, the Bills rarely even attempted to even distract the opposing QB's, let alone pressure or God forbid, sack one. Every opponent knew it. Maybe Fewell didn't think he had the personnel to effectively blitz the QB, and perhaps, just perhaps, that is true. But either way, whether it's Fewell or the players, the Bills need to get that fixed next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 I think this is the most interesting point and I wonder if this is the real problem with our defense. If the coaches did a better job of mixing up cover 2 calls with man under calls, straight man calls (blitzes), and coverage calls, they might have better sucess against offenses. For example, if the team did play press coverage every once in a while, the offense would be surprises and it might even lead to a turnover. Part of my problem with the cover 2, at least the way we play it, is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of strategy: the DL rushes the passer through their gaps, while the LBs plug for run plays and cover for pass. What I don't get is why they don't try to incorporate a little 2 gap scheme as well. In this way, they could be less predictable while still looking rpetty much the same on defense. Now for those who say that we don't have guys to do a bit of a 2 gap scheme, I say that is true if we were to run it a lot, but I am thinking more of running it maybe 10% of the plays over a season. This way, we would be less predictable and it might help us to get a pass rush, since we could hopefully tie up an extra interior linemen and get some free on the outside. Just a thought... I think you are right on. The bears during their nfc championship season did a great job of mixing it up. The bears however, had tremendous depth. The had run stuffing dts that would rotate in and out with gap penetrating tackles like Harris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 It is frustrating at times. The defense is trying to prevent big plays. The goal is to make teams go on long extended drives, that will hopefully end due to a sack, penalty or turnover. It is the jobs of the corners not to get beat deep. This is easier to do if the corner is off the ball. If you look at most bills games, they give up a lot of yards, but not a lot of points. If the bills find 2 good pass rushers, more drives will end due to sack. The bills still need a gap penetrating dt and another good rushing end. We need more production from the line to make it go- Schobel is an above average player- but shouldn't be your main pass rusher. Williams is not good enough- not nearly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstngoal Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 The cover two was an effective defense last year, especially if you look at the holes we have. DE: With Schobel out the bills were left with one average starter and one below average starter. DT: Stroud and Williams are not bad, but far from elite. LB: No pro bowlers, 2 ok-good starters and one major hole Safety: Whitner is fine, the second starter is sub par. Corner: Great depth, but no stars Now consider this -2 out of the last 3 years the bills have been in the top ten in points allowed -The defense was ranked in the top half last year -Teams that use the cover 2 as their base utilize other formations 55% of the time. I think Ralph Wilson was right, the bills lack talent. If we can find a pass rusher, a safety, and an olb the defense should be very good. The days of the Tampa-2 defense are soon to be history. Keep in mind that the NFL is a copy-cat league, and things that work often get imitated. None of the teams are flocking to the cover-2 scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Statistically speaking, coupled with the lack of balls, my aunt makes a great uncle.ROFL The Bills had fewer injuries last season then the previous season,especially in the secondary, the stats reflect that? The Tampa 2 scheme is designed around the fact that only the front 4 linemen are supposed to go after the QB, that's it! No blitzes, no dogs, just send the 4 smaller,faster,penetrating linemen to get to the QB. There is a reason as to why so many teams have stopped using this style of defense, those smaller,faster penetrating linemen tend to get pushed around and run over and somehow never make it to the QB very often. Its why the Bills run defense stinks and will continue to stink at stopping the run and rushing the passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 The days of the Tampa-2 defense are soon to be history. Keep in mind that the NFL is a copy-cat league, and things that work often get imitated. None of the teams are flocking to the cover-2 scheme. The "Tampa 2" and cover 2 are sorta 2 different animals. You can run a cover 2 scheme with any defense whereas the Tampa 2 is now only used by Dick heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 The cover two was an effective defense last year, especially if you look at the holes we have. DE: With Schobel out the bills were left with one average starter and one below average starter. DT: Stroud and Williams are not bad, but far from elite. LB: No pro bowlers, 2 ok-good starters and one major hole Safety: Whitner is fine, the second starter is sub par. Corner: Great depth, but no stars Now consider this -2 out of the last 3 years the bills have been in the top ten in points allowed -The defense was ranked in the top half last year -Teams that use the cover 2 as their base utilize other formations 55% of the time. I think Ralph Wilson was right, the bills lack talent. If we can find a pass rusher, a safety, and an olb the defense should be very good. good assessment. While upgrading safety would be nice, if we upgrade our pass rush, bryan scott or even Ko would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 The Tampa 2 is proven to be a defense that works, if you have the right pieces in place. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Colts and Bears have all had tremendous success and either made it to or won the super bowl. All in the last decade! The key is getting pressure to the qb, and that is our problem. Where do you propose the Bills pick up Dwight Freeny and Bob sanders along with Brian Urlacher and Tommie Harris along with Warren Sap and.... you get the picture. Those teams were loaded with tremendous talent,its why those defenses were so good,even then once Bob Sanders was hurt the defense wasn't nearly the same. GL with this because the Bills talent evaluators at OBD are average at best, there isn't one superstar player on the entire team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Where do you propose the Bills pick up Dwight Freeny and Bob sanders along with Brian Urlacher and Tommie Harris along with Warren Sap and.... you get the picture. Those teams were loaded with tremendous talent,its why those defenses were so good,even then once Bob Sanders was hurt the defense wasn't nearly the same. GL with this because the Bills talent evaluators at OBD are average at best, there isn't one superstar player on the entire team! Exactly- scheme is very overrated. Our coaches are better than people want to admit- they put our overmatched players in position to make some plays against more talented teams- remember all those turnovers forced against Dallas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Exactly- scheme is very overrated. Our coaches are better than people want to admit- they put our overmatched players in position to make some plays against more talented teams- remember all those turnovers forced against Dallas? How many turnovers did we get against the Cardinals this past season? Or the Browns? The Dallas game was one of those once in a blue moon type of game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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