Bill from NYC Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Some of you people spend more time on the draft than me, so would anybody mind explaining to me how this kid could possibly have lasted until the mid second round. Was it his height? 40 time? Was he a late bloomer? Character issues? I don't get it. I know that players slip under the radar every year. Bryce Paup was great imo. He was strong as an ox, had extremely long arms and he was agile, but he did play at Northerm Iowa, where I guess there is little exposure and was a 6th round pick. Woodley went to freaking Michigan, where everyone in the world could watch him every week. Imo, this kid is already one of the best players in the NFL. Talk about a "motor?" He is relentless, uses his hands well, and is as quick as a cat. Is he only suited for a 3/4? It doesn't seem possible. I freaking hate this dumbass cover-2!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Some of you people spend more time on the draft than me, so would anybody mind explaining to me how this kid could possibly have lasted until the mid second round. Was it his height? 40 time? Was he a late bloomer? Character issues? I don't get it. I know that players slip under the radar every year. Bryce Paup was great imo. He was strong as an ox, had extremely long arms and he was agile, but he did play at Northerm Iowa, where I guess there is little exposure and was a 6th round pick. Woodley went to freaking Michigan, where everyone in the world could watch him every week. Imo, this kid is alreafy one of the best players in the NFL. Talk about a "motor?" He is relentless, uses his hands well, and is as quick as a cat. Is he only suited for a 3/4? It doesn't seem possible. I freaking hate this dumbass cover-2!!!! I think we've had this discussion before, William. He was an undersized DE, which means he was tailor made for a 3-4 team as an edge rusher. I told my brother when I watched Woodley return a Brady Quinn fumble for a score as his Michgan team beat Quinn's "that school" team in college, "he's a future Steeler: a smallish DE w/ tons of athleticism". BTW, I still have that play from the Michigan-"that school" game on my tivo. I love Tom Hammonds' call afterward: "As we say in the South....this is a whoopin'!" It sure was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 He was considered a tweaner coming out of college, and best suited for 3-4 backer. His only question marks I could remember were speed and agility. I think a bigger learning curve was expected as well considering he was a DE. I also hate the Tampa 2 and feel it takes us out of the running for athletes like this. These tweaners are available every year now and seem to always be where the best athletes are choosing to play. I hate this bend but don't break crap. We need to play a more versatile, attack style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofton80 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Woodley was always in the highlight reels for Michigan. He was a tough hard nosed player. A perfect fit in the Steelers 3-4 ala Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, etc. Probably lacked the coverage skills required in Fewell's scheme. I believe Pittsburgh was in a cover 2 when Fitgerald went 60 yards for a TD right up the middle. I hate the scheme as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Tigre Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Woodley played DE at Michigan. He never played LB,and he was a little undersized to play DE in the NFL. He also wasn't as fast as undersized DE's who've had success in the NFL,like say Freeny. Having said all that,he was very productive at Michigan and made lots of plays due to his relentless attitude and hustle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 I think we've had this discussion before, William. He was an undersized DE, which means he was tailor made for a 3-4 team as an edge rusher. I told my brother when I watched Woodley return a Brady Quinn fumble for a score as his Michgan team beat Quinn's "that school" team in college, "he's a future Steeler: a smallish DE w/ tons of athleticism". BTW, I still have that play from the Michigan-"that school" game on my tivo. I love Tom Hammonds' call afterward: "As we say in the South....this is a whoopin'!" It sure was. If our defense is not built to utilize this type of GREAT player, it should be scrapped as we speak. They need to draft a nose, find a tweener to rush the qb, and let our star studded dbs cover people instead of standing 40 yards away waiting for opponents to come to them. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Woodley was always in the highlight reels for Michigan. He was a tough hard nosed player. A perfect fit in the Steelers 3-4 ala Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, etc. Probably lacked the coverage skills required in Fewell's scheme. I believe Pittsburgh was in a cover 2 when Fitgerald went 60 yards for a TD right up the middle. I hate the scheme as well. That looked more like man w/ 2 safeties deep. Everyone was up in the box to rush, and Arizona wisely threw right over 'em to where the safeties were out of position to recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 If our defense is not built to utilize this type of GREAT player, it should be scrapped as we speak. They need to draft a nose, find a tweener to rush the qb, and let our star studded dbs cover people instead of standing 40 yards away waiting for opponents to come to them. Period. But Bill, they can't stop the run! People here want the next Bruce Smith, me too, but it isn't gonna happen. It's very rare to see a 280 pounds DE that can play great rushing the passer as well as stopping the run. Football, in the trenches, is about leverage, hand placement and wanting it more than the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 That looked more like man w/ 2 safeties deep. Everyone was up in the box to rush, and Arizona wisely threw right over 'em to where the safeties were out of position to recover. Nope it was a cover 2. James Harrison couldn't drop back fast enough to cover the middle field. The announcers commented on the coverage as well. It seemed like as soon as Warner recognized where Harrison was going it was an easy play. It might have even been a hot read on Harrison. He just doesn't get back with the same intensity as POZ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofton80 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 The replay I saw looked like Palamaulo shaded over to cover the outside receiver vacating the middle. Bottom line, we limit what we can do by using this scheme. That looked more like man w/ 2 safeties deep. Everyone was up in the box to rush, and Arizona wisely threw right over 'em to where the safeties were out of position to recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 But Bill, they can't stop the run! People here want the next Bruce Smith, me too, but it isn't gonna happen. It's very rare to see a 280 pounds DE that can play great rushing the passer as well as stopping the run. Football, in the trenches, is about leverage, hand placement and wanting it more than the opposition. Ted Washington would tie up a guard and a center on almost every play, and free up other defenders to make tackles. Jmo, but I think that the 3/4 is a much better system than the dopey thing that we use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 But Bill, they can't stop the run! People here want the next Bruce Smith, me too, but it isn't gonna happen. It's very rare to see a 280 pounds DE that can play great rushing the passer as well as stopping the run. Football, in the trenches, is about leverage, hand placement and wanting it more than the opposition. I agree that it is very rare to find this type of DE. Unfortunately our defensive scheme relys on having DEs who can play the rush and get to the QB. It's much easier to stock and reload 3-4 linebackers today than it is took look for Bruce Smith. Bill's right on the money with this IMO, scrap this D and start over. I think it could be quicker path to success as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hey, I hate the Tampa 2, it's not suited for our climate and you have to scout hard to get the players it needs. I loved our 3-4 defense with Big Ted in the middle being the main clog, what I didn't like was Cottrell's conservatism, that defense was tough as hell but it was a bend and don't brake defense. I always thought he had the horses to try and be a little bit more agressive at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Hey, I hate the Tampa 2, it's not suited for our climate and you have to scout hard to get the players it needs. I loved our 3-4 defense with Big Ted in the middle being the main clog, what I didn't like was Cottrell's conservatism, that defense was tough as hell but it was a bend and don't brake defense. I always thought he had the horses to try and be a little bit more agressive at times. I couldn't agree more. A good aggressive strategy has been needed for along time. It also sets the tone for our players. The attitude that many see in the steelers, ravens, and eagles etc., comes from the ability to play the game going foward. We subscribe to the read and react, 100 percent of the time. You can't punch someone in the mouth playing on your heals all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 If our defense is not built to utilize this type of GREAT player, it should be scrapped as we speak. They need to draft a nose, find a tweener to rush the qb, and let our star studded dbs cover people instead of standing 40 yards away waiting for opponents to come to them. Period. It's because we start with the scheme and then get the players. Sometimes you need to just go get great players and figure out ways how to use them. A great coach does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Players/coaches make the scheme successful. You can win with any defense in the NFL so long as you have talented players and coaching. Great coaching can put good players in a position to succeed. While people are lamenting that our defense causes us to not look at the "tweeners," and thus miss out on some great players, they need to remember that the typical defenses of the 90s decided to pass on players such as Derrick Brooks because he was "too small to succeed" and Ronde barber because "he didn't have the man coverage skills." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PushthePile Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Players/coaches make the scheme successful. You can win with any defense in the NFL so long as you have talented players and coaching. Great coaching can put good players in a position to succeed. While people are lamenting that our defense causes us to not look at the "tweeners," and thus miss out on some great players, they need to remember that the typical defenses of the 90s decided to pass on players such as Derrick Brooks because he was "too small to succeed" and Ronde barber because "he didn't have the man coverage skills." I understand what you are saying. The scheme can work if you have good players/coachs. My point is that I believe a 3-4 is much easier to stockpile with talent. I can only think of one true stud traditional DE to come out of college in the last few years. On the otherhand these undersized DEs/rush linebackers are available year in, year out. It has alot to do with what college defenses are doing today. I also think it's easier to find big space eating DTs, as opposed to a Warren Sapp. Tampa had great players and a great coordinator. You need alot of luck to land the pieces that they had. Without these supreme players it's a vanilla scheme. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 That looked more like man w/ 2 safeties deep. Everyone was up in the box to rush, and Arizona wisely threw right over 'em to where the safeties were out of position to recover. and by having "2 safeties deep", it makes it a cover 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 The safeties were in a deep cover 2 (the safeties were 25 yards back to prevent a big gain), no question. The play rolled the safeties and corners on both sides out with intermediate outs. Fitzgerald crossed into the middle of the field where he had a LB running up on him, got depth, and exploded right up the middle just as one draws it up on the whiteboard. Perfect call. Except for one thing. The Cardinals defense was gassed and it left too much time on the clock. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 The safeties were in a deep cover 2 (the safeties were 25 yards back to prevent a big gain), no question. The play rolled the safeties and corners on both sides out with intermediate outs. Fitzgerald crossed into the middle of the field where he had a LB on him, got depth, and exploded right up the middle just as one draws it up on the whiteboard. Perfect call. Except for one thing. The Cardinals defense was gassed and it left too much time on the clock. Oh well. actually, ike taylor was on fitzgerald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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