atl-fan Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Really now, how many of you posters and readers out there would , in selling your old reliable family van, willing replace the 100K+ mileage engine in it just prior to selling it to someone at actual blue book value. A cost completely coming out of your pocket, not to be replaced by a higher sale price. What has value to you does not necessarily mean value to a buyer. Especially if the vehicle is to be sold only after your death and actually, the current engine is running and working well enough to get you around in your last days. May or may not be a good analogy ,but the facts we have to face: -Ralph is not an "up & coming" young multimillionaire, sorry, he is only in "think of his family's financial legacy" mode -He has stated , unequivically, that this team is for sale on his death. Noone in his family wants, needs, or because of current tax laws ,can keep after his death, but they do want the money the sale will generate! -This team is moving , post-ralph. ( Sorry Jimbo , I wish you were right, but even that doesn't change the basic facts.) -Noone is going to turn down the purchase of this team because Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan isn't the coach, nor will they pay more because of it! -controlling his overhead now results in the greater profit for his family on selling the team later. -If you were he, whcih would be the legacy you left your loved ones; Old Poppy finally won a Superbowl ( or even a play-off game) in that city he had his team in but had to blow most of our inheritance (post inheritance tax) on buying out salaries, paying big bucks to "designer level" coaches and staff and fat salaries to already over paid ( "I'm Ko Simpson and I'm worth millions" ) and hyped players. Gee, it had worked so well in Dallas and Washington! or Thanks for making this investment worth so much for us, let the next owner spend the "big bucks" to build a winner, we got the maximum return on his investment. Face the facts, the next owner can make the investment, Ralph is done! Accept the position we are in in the final year(s) of this once proud franchise and enjoy as much as you can, DJ is here until he's packing footballs into moving boxes. Raph's family will laugh all the way to the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Really now, how many of you posters and readers out there would , in selling your old reliable family van, willing replace the 100K+ mileage engine in it just prior to selling it to someone at actual blue book value. A cost completely coming out of your pocket, not to be replaced by a higher sale price. What has value to you does not necessarily mean value to a buyer. Especially if the vehicle is to be sold only after your death and actually, the current engine is running and working well enough to get you around in your last days. May or may not be a good analogy ,but the facts we have to face: -Ralph is not an "up & coming" young multimillionaire, sorry, he is only in "think of his family's financial legacy" mode -He has stated , unequivically, that this team is for sale on his death. Noone in his family wants, needs, or because of current tax laws ,can keep after his death, but they do want the money the sale will generate! -This team is moving , post-ralph. ( Sorry Jimbo , I wish you were right, but even that doesn't change the basic facts.) -Noone is going to turn down the purchase of this team because Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan isn't the coach, nor will they pay more because of it! -controlling his overhead now results in the greater profit for his family on selling the team later. -If you were he, whcih would be the legacy you left your loved ones; Old Poppy finally won a Superbowl ( or even a play-off game) in that city he had his team in but had to blow most of our inheritance (post inheritance tax) on buying out salaries, paying big bucks to "designer level" coaches and staff and fat salaries to already over paid ( "I'm Ko Simpson and I'm worth millions" ) and hyped players. Gee, it had worked so well in Dallas and Washington! or Thanks for making this investment worth so much for us, let the next owner spend the "big bucks" to build a winner, we got the maximum return on his investment. Face the facts, the next owner can make the investment, Ralph is done! Accept the position we are in in the final year(s) of this once proud franchise and enjoy as much as you can, DJ is here until he's packing footballs into moving boxes. Raph's family will laugh all the way to the bank. My bad, didn't know this was a business. Thanks for the update. Unfortunately, in your expert analysis and analogy (can you feel the sarcasm, I sure hope so) you failed to consider the fact that this county and state built Ralph a stadium, continually subsidizes that stadium to ensure his $20-$25 mil profit per year (ie, he could pay for it himself but he'd rather steal our money); and that this isn't a car or a clothing store, it's a publically subsidized good so it doesn't fall into your typical private business enterprsise you wish it did. The emotion and pain is exascerbated (get yourself a dictionary) by RW ....fill in the black: arrogance, ignorance, condescension, senility, dishonor, greed.... His family will sell to the highest bidder and this team will leave. I'm confident of that. But that's the issue. They've turned a $25,000 invested into hundreds of millions off the backs of WNY and they'll turn their back on it to maximize the profit that WE have cretaed and ensured both at the ticket office and at county hall, which has subsidized the greed. I wish they'd pack up and leave yesterday and I'm a season ticket holder (soon to be former). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atl-fan Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 My bad, didn't know this was a business. Thanks for the update. Unfortunately, in your expert analysis and analogy (can you feel the sarcasm, I sure hope so) you failed to consider the fact that this county and state built Ralph a stadium, continually subsidizes that stadium to ensure his $20-$25 mil profit per year (ie, he could pay for it himself but he'd rather steal our money); and that this isn't a car or a clothing store, it's a publically subsidized good so it doesn't fall into your typical private business enterprsise you wish it did. The emotion and pain is exascerbated (get yourself a dictionary) by RW ....fill in the black: arrogance, ignorance, condescension, senility, dishonor, greed.... His family will sell to the highest bidder and this team will leave. I'm confident of that. But that's the issue. They've turned a $25,000 invested into hundreds of millions off the backs of WNY and they'll turn their back on it to maximize the profit that WE have cretaed and ensured both at the ticket office and at county hall, which has subsidized the greed. I wish they'd pack up and leave yesterday and I'm a season ticket holder (soon to be former). Get yourself a dictionary and look up how to spell - blank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Old Poppy finally won a Superbowl ( or even a play-off game) in that city he had his team in but had to blow most of our inheritance (post inheritance tax) on buying out salaries, paying big bucks to "designer level" coaches and staff and fat salaries to already over paid ( "I'm Ko Simpson and I'm worth millions" ) and hyped players. Gee, it had worked so well in "Most of our inheritance?" Are you friggin kidding me? The money we're talking about is a drop in the bucket compared to the payday those people are in for when Ralph dies. I'm not asking Ralph to operate at a loss. How spending as much on the team as the revenue that comes in. I saw an article on here (can't find the link) that showed the Bills are making an operating profit of $30 million a year. That's a nice paycheck for Ralph to be the owner of the Bills. How about taking half that money and reviving the franchise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 My bad, didn't know this was a business. Thanks for the update. Unfortunately, in your expert analysis and analogy (can you feel the sarcasm, I sure hope so) you failed to consider the fact that this county and state built Ralph a stadium, continually subsidizes that stadium to ensure his $20-$25 mil profit per year (ie, he could pay for it himself but he'd rather steal our money); and that this isn't a car or a clothing store, it's a publically subsidized good so it doesn't fall into your typical private business enterprsise you wish it did. The emotion and pain is exascerbated (get yourself a dictionary) by RW ....fill in the black: arrogance, ignorance, condescension, senility, dishonor, greed.... His family will sell to the highest bidder and this team will leave. I'm confident of that. But that's the issue. They've turned a $25,000 invested into hundreds of millions off the backs of WNY and they'll turn their back on it to maximize the profit that WE have cretaed and ensured both at the ticket office and at county hall, which has subsidized the greed. I wish they'd pack up and leave yesterday and I'm a season ticket holder (soon to be former). The county and state went into the stadium business with their eyes wide open. Don't get all bitter and blame Ralph. I completely agree with Atl fan. NFL owners don't owe the fans crap. The fans vote with their dollars. If Bills fans are mad they won't buy the tickets and merchandise. but they will, because Buffalo people have nothing left but the Bills as everything else is gone. And Ralph knows it. His livelihood is based on the Bills being the only game in town. If the Jax team or the Phoenix teams are crappy, their owners are at risk because fans actually HAVE choices in entertainment in those places... in buff they don't , unless building snowmen in the front yard counts as entertainment. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortured Soul Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 "Most of our inheritance?" Are you friggin kidding me? The money we're talking about is a drop in the bucket compared to the payday those people are in for when Ralph dies. I'm not asking Ralph to operate at a loss. How spending as much on the team as the revenue that comes in. I saw an article on here (can't find the link) that showed the Bills are making an operating profit of $30 million a year. That's a nice paycheck for Ralph to be the owner of the Bills. How about taking half that money and reviving the franchise? Absolutely right. atl-fan, A few points you forgot to consider: Is Ralph planning on dying soon? Because for a 90-year-old, he is in pretty good health, and there's nothing that says you can't live five or ten more years. I'm only 24, so I don't dwell on my own mortality too much, but I'd guess if I was 90, I'd do pretty much whatever I could to deny the end as long as I could. Seems logical, right? Second point is, if you are assuming that Ralph's goal is to sell the franchise for as large a profit as possible upon death, why do you assume that a winning franchise would not be more valuable than a losing franchise? For example, wouldn't you be willing to pony up a few million more for a franchise with Scott Pioli attached than one run by Russ Brandon? Oh, and Ralph has been handing out big money contracts left and right the past two years. For example, Aaron Schobel, Derrick Dockery and Lee Evans. In case you forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atl-fan Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 Absolutely right. atl-fan, A few points you forgot to consider: Is Ralph planning on dying soon? Because for a 90-year-old, he is in pretty good health, and there's nothing that says you can't live five or ten more years. I'm only 24, so I don't dwell on my own mortality too much, but I'd guess if I was 90, I'd do pretty much whatever I could to deny the end as long as I could. Seems logical, right? Second point is, if you are assuming that Ralph's goal is to sell the franchise for as large a profit as possible upon death, why do you assume that a winning franchise would not be more valuable than a losing franchise? For example, wouldn't you be willing to pony up a few million more for a franchise with Scott Pioli attached than one run by Russ Brandon? Oh, and Ralph has been handing out big money contracts left and right the past two years. For example, Aaron Schobel, Derrick Dockery and Lee Evans. In case you forgot. A good response and you bring good points to consider; however. -Ralph made his money in the insurance business! A business that is built on actuary tables. Do you think he honestly doesn't know his odds of living season to season at this point in his life! Every day is a gift. -Value is in the eye of the beholder. Wouldn't a new owner rate and or consider a team a better buy when he can put his own selections in to run it! Look at Jerry Jones when he bought the Cowboys. That kind of owner is who will be buying the Bills, sorry to say. ( Sorry again Jimbo.) - He doesn't need anymore overpaid and hyped players. I made that point. Ralph is a good businessman, not a genius. Everyone keep in mind, this is capitalism. It's his team,his investment, his money. No one needs to or can predict how much of his money is too much to pass onto his families. ( At least for the time being.) We do have the option of buying or not buying tickets, merchandise, etc. as was well pointed out a few posts back. He has made it through non sell-out seasons before. How much can he afford to suffer this again? He's checking his actuary tables on that one also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Get yourself a dictionary and look up how to spell - blank! 'how to spell' -he spelled it correctly. His typo means nothing.Your lack of command of the english language is really something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIE HARD 1967 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 We have the best run business in the NFL. Too bad they don't have playoffs for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atl-fan Posted January 4, 2009 Author Share Posted January 4, 2009 'how to spell' -he spelled it correctly. His typo means nothing.Your lack of command of the english language is really something! Sorry, you caught me! I should have advised he look up; "cretaed." Black is obviously the correct word! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I agree with the sentiment of the post. However, I think RW is an individual that is trying to balance his family interests with thise of the fans .... to a point. Having a flashy owner that is willing to spend, spend, spend is not a proven formula either. Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder prove this every season. If you want a consistently winning franchise in today's NFL look to the Patriots recipe: A very good coach - one that makes adjustments within the game, the season and from one season to the next A front office that is on the same page as the coach and is unashamed to trade, cut or acquire players as required. Parcells is alos doing this in Miami. The cheatriots have been at it longer. A sound system on offense and defense that can be changed according to the talents of the players within it. Bellicheat regularly makes use of veterans that were otherwise considered washed up or on their last leggs from an NFL perspective. A quarterback that makes good decisions with the ball and is accurate (Bellicheat said exactly this) so for all of you that are still enamored with JP's cannon remember that he holds the ball way too long and could not hit the side of a barn. An owner that spends money effectively not stupidly (A.K.A Jones) If spending money on coaches and players was the key the Redskins would own the NFL ... look at where they sit compared to the Bills. ralph is not a fool. He sees this. He also knows keeping the treadmill turning every three years with a new coach doesn't get it done either. In my opinion, the Bills current problems are tied to the following: Trent Edwards is not a proven QB. The Bills gambled by not bringing in a solid #2 veteran QB this past season. Where would the Titans be if they had not done this? The Bills need a real GM - OK Tom Donahue was a disaster. Move on and don't dismiss the fact that Bill Pollian was central to the Bills success in the Kelly and crew era. The current GM by committee is likely to fail. Dick Jauron does not appear to have learned from his past mistakes. Tom Coughlin changed because he was consisdered too harsh. DJ is too nice and too accommodating. Does Bellicheat appear to be a "players coach?" No... but his team follows his leadership because he wins and they respect it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 -He has stated , unequivically, that this team is for sale on his death. Noone in his family wants, needs, or because of current tax laws ,can keep after his death, I see you take Ralph's statements at face value. Good for you. Do you then take him at his word for everything he says? Most here don't believe anything he says, but point to that one statement (selling the team to the highest bidder) and treat it as Gospel. BTW, there is no estate tax in 2010 (at least under current tax laws) as far as I understand. Maybe Ralph is planing to die in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 I see you take Ralph's statements at face value. Good for you. Do you then take him at his word for everything he says? Most here don't believe anything he says, but point to that one statement (selling the team to the highest bidder) and treat it as Gospel. BTW, there is no estate tax in 2010 (at least under current tax laws) as far as I understand. Maybe Ralph is planing to die in 2010. This is why I am planning to "off" a number of relatives in 2010. Oh wait .. they have no money. I might still do it anyway just because ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Sorry, you caught me! I should have advised he look up; "cretaed." Black is obviously the correct word! oh wait--he was giving you s about exacerbated...my apologies to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortured Soul Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 A good response and you bring good points to consider; however.-Ralph made his money in the insurance business! A business that is built on actuary tables. Do you think he honestly doesn't know his odds of living season to season at this point in his life! Every day is a gift. -Value is in the eye of the beholder. Wouldn't a new owner rate and or consider a team a better buy when he can put his own selections in to run it! Look at Jerry Jones when he bought the Cowboys. That kind of owner is who will be buying the Bills, sorry to say. ( Sorry again Jimbo.) - He doesn't need anymore overpaid and hyped players. I made that point. Ralph is a good businessman, not a genius. Everyone keep in mind, this is capitalism. It's his team,his investment, his money. No one needs to or can predict how much of his money is too much to pass onto his families. ( At least for the time being.) We do have the option of buying or not buying tickets, merchandise, etc. as was well pointed out a few posts back. He has made it through non sell-out seasons before. How much can he afford to suffer this again? He's checking his actuary tables on that one also Maybe the life expectancy for someone his age in good health and with the resources to buy the best health care in the world can expect to live five more years. I don't know what the actuarial tables are. But my point is, though Ralph is prepared should he die within a year, that doesn't mean he's living now expecting to die within a year. I don't know on what basis you would suggest that Jones would not have paid more for the Cowboys if they were coming off a 13-3 season rather than a 3-13 season. An owner can always install his own people, but he'd like to start with a good product. Think of anyone buying a business. Which would they pay more for - a strong brand that's selling well or one that has struggled but has potential to improve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 If you're not competing to win, then what good is it to have a team? I sense that RW would rather maintain than compete at this juncture, and that wouldn't be an issue if he didn't have such intense fan support. RW has underestimated the fans' animosity. He sold 8 games to Toronto, thus taking 5 regular season games from the fan base which has made this team. And he compounded that by keeping a HC with a 32-48 record in his last five seasons. I think RW assumes we'll be back because it's an NFL team. He's very mistaken I've been to the last 14 of 15 home games. That doesn't make me a super fan, but weathering this team and the elements, it's reasonable to expect success at some point. Instead, we're left with some of the most heartbreaking losses, aside from SB 25, that this team has ever experienced. RW himself was mad, but did absolutely nothing about it when he had the chance. I'm not one to demand we sign the top UFA, or a Cowher type coach. But reasonable expectations should be more than 7-9 every season with a joke HC who somehow keeps his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 A good response and you bring good points to consider; however.-Ralph made his money in the insurance business! A business that is built on actuary tables. Do you think he honestly doesn't know his odds of living season to season at this point in his life! Every day is a gift. -Value is in the eye of the beholder. Wouldn't a new owner rate and or consider a team a better buy when he can put his own selections in to run it! Look at Jerry Jones when he bought the Cowboys. That kind of owner is who will be buying the Bills, sorry to say. ( Sorry again Jimbo.) - He doesn't need anymore overpaid and hyped players. I made that point. Ralph is a good businessman, not a genius. Everyone keep in mind, this is capitalism. It's his team,his investment, his money. No one needs to or can predict how much of his money is too much to pass onto his families. ( At least for the time being.) We do have the option of buying or not buying tickets, merchandise, etc. as was well pointed out a few posts back. He has made it through non sell-out seasons before. How much can he afford to suffer this again? He's checking his actuary tables on that one also The main problem I have is that Ralph has had every opportunity to take on someone with a very small percentage of the team who could then be given the opportunity to buy the team or be given right of first refusal, but he hasn't done it nor has he had any interest in doing it. There are plenty of things he could do to make sure this team stays here AND makes his family a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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