seq004 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I think Joe D. is right when he talked about the group of current not caring if they win or lose just give me my millions. I know it's been brought on the board before. As much as I like Trent Edwards and still think he has potential of being a very good QB I don't see a fire to win. I know we had some high priced players in the Kelly years but THEY CARED about winning and got angry when they didn't even if that meant some anger between players. I think we need some of that anger on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I think Joe D. is right when he talked about the group of current not caring if they win or lose just give me my millions. I know it's been brought on the board before. As much as I like Trent Edwards and still think he has potential of being a very good QB I don't see a fire to win. I know we had some high priced players in the Kelly years but THEY CARED about winning and got angry when they didn't even if that meant some anger between players. I think we need some of that anger on this team. Not as long as the guy running the team is Jauron the Expressionless. But looking at it another way, why would Kawika Mitchell want to leave the Giants and come to Buffalo if not JUST for the money? What, did he think he was going to get another SB ring in Buffalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Hate to break it you, but all they care about is the money. They play out their rookie contract to become an UFA and cash in. The don't want to be a cripple when they are done playing. They want the money and an easy life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Hate to break it you, but all they care about is the money. They play out their rookie contract to become an UFA and cash in. The don't want to be a cripple when they are done playing. They want the money and an easy life. Maybe some cocky Wide Recievers make that appear evident... ...but that I can assure you is not true of almost all athletes. The thing is, they're all winners. That's why they're playing professional sports. If you don't have a winning attitude, or try all the time, you don't get to play the sport you love. I think Joe D. is alluding to the fact that players in his time did not have the distraction of money that players do now, and so it hinders their priorities, but I'm sure even he can agree that 99% of the players made it to where they are out of the sheer love of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Maybe some cocky Wide Recievers make that appear evident... ...but that I can assure you is not true of almost all athletes. The thing is, they're all winners. That's why they're playing professional sports. If you don't have a winning attitude, or try all the time, you don't get to play the sport you love. I think Joe D. is alluding to the fact that players in his time did not have the distraction of money that players do now, and so it hinders their priorities, but I'm sure even he can agree that 99% of the players made it to where they are out of the sheer love of the game. Agree, but it seems once they hit it big they change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I think Joe D. is right when he talked about the group of current not caring if they win or lose just give me my millions. I know it's been brought on the board before. As much as I like Trent Edwards and still think he has potential of being a very good QB I don't see a fire to win. I know we had some high priced players in the Kelly years but THEY CARED about winning and got angry when they didn't even if that meant some anger between players. I think we need some of that anger on this team. I think what has happened with Jauron is that the team has accepted the mediocrity which Jauron himself tolerates. This happened in Chicago as well. I think it goes without saying that they WANT to win, but there is a difference between wanting to win and NEEDING to win. When you play for Parcells, you are either part of the solution or part of the problem, and even when you are winning he is not satisfied unless you are winning the right way. That instills a fear of failure and competitiveness which brings out the best performance in most athletes. But even though a disciplined, demanding, competitive environment brings out the best in them, the majority of athletes still prefer playing in a forgiving, comfortable environment where they are afforded mistakes and therefore are better positioned to enjoy their everyday life outside of work. This is human nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliteqb Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Agree. Once a player gets that mega bucks contract, a significant edge is lost and the competitive fire is somewhat doused in many players (not all). How do you discipline a multi millionaire. He may do what he's told but i truly believe he's snickering inside...these guys are making way more than the coach...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I think what has happened with Jauron is that the team has accepted the mediocrity which Jauron himself tolerates. This happened in Chicago as well. I think it goes without saying that they WANT to win, but there is a difference between wanting to win and NEEDING to win. When you play for Parcells, you are either part of the solution or part of the problem, and even when you are winning he is not satisfied unless you are winning the right way. That instills a fear of failure and competitiveness which brings out the best performance in most athletes. But even though a disciplined, demanding, competitive environment brings out the best in them, the majority of athletes still prefer playing in a forgiving, comfortable environment where they are afforded mistakes and therefore are better positioned to enjoy their everyday life outside of work. This is human nature. I sort of agree, but the simple fact of the matter is that NFL teams are all the same -- 10+ new guys get added every year, and 10+ guys from the previous year get dumped. The Bills go same the constant churn as every other team. Now they may *think* they're safer under Jauron, but really, they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 Hate to break it you, but all they care about is the money. They play out their rookie contract to become an UFA and cash in. The don't want to be a cripple when they are done playing. They want the money and an easy life. Right, but my point was that we had some of the highest played players in the league in the Super Bowl years and they got angry when they lost. They took it personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I sort of agree, but the simple fact of the matter is that NFL teams are all the same -- 10+ new guys get added every year, and 10+ guys from the previous year get dumped. The Bills go same the constant churn as every other team. Now they may *think* they're safer under Jauron, but really, they're not. Statistically, that's probably about right. But I'm not talking about the fringe players and free agents you speak of. The tone is set by your stars. If they don't display qualities of greatness, then the team isn't going to. There is no greatness on this team. None. Teams like the Patriots have greatness in spades. Even if it's just someone like Kevin Faulk being a "great third down back", they have it. Jauron doesn't demand greatness and IMO, he's not capable of bringing it out of his players. He wants it to blossom from within, but even a guy like Whitner who is full of desire can't necessarily do it on his own. I'm sure your going to ask me what I think "greatness" is. Great players consistently beat the opponent with extra and sometimes unexpected actions that come from having a greater understanding of how to play the game. The Bills best player is Lee Evans and while he's put up a ton of big plays, I've never seem him do anything great that wasn't all about him just being faster than his opponent. The Bills are awash with talent, but I think this team has a lot of players capable of being great. Edwards, Lynch, Evans, Peters, Reed, Schobel, Jackson...there are plenty who are capable of being those guys who find ways to WIN. They don't have the proper leader to bring it out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEDFREDJACKSONNOW Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Right, but my point was that we had some of the highest played players in the league in the Super Bowl years and they got angry when they lost. They took it personal. I get your point, though I'm not sure that getting "angry" over losing is relevant. Remember "wildman" Gregggg Williams? What I think is is the desire to perform above their level. I think Trent takes it personal but his style is more conservative. It seemed Trent did that against KC; I was impressed with Trent's desire to score two rushing TDs in that game. I think he is having serious trouble reading 3-4 defenses, and there may be some residue complications from the concussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Its sad when the guy coming from the Super Bowl Champions, Kawika Mitchell comes here and says the guys on this team need an "attitude adjustment"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Statistically, that's probably about right. But I'm not talking about the fringe players and free agents you speak of. The tone is set by your stars. If they don't display qualities of greatness, then the team isn't going to. There is no greatness on this team. None. Teams like the Patriots have greatness in spades. Even if it's just someone like Kevin Faulk being a "great third down back", they have it. Jauron doesn't demand greatness and IMO, he's not capable of bringing it out of his players. He wants it to blossom from within, but even a guy like Whitner who is full of desire can't necessarily do it on his own. I'm sure your going to ask me what I think "greatness" is. Great players consistently beat the opponent with extra and sometimes unexpected actions that come from having a greater understanding of how to play the game. The Bills best player is Lee Evans and while he's put up a ton of big plays, I've never seem him do anything great that wasn't all about him just being faster than his opponent. The Bills are awash with talent, but I think this team has a lot of players capable of being great. Edwards, Lynch, Evans, Peters, Reed, Schobel, Jackson...there are plenty who are capable of being those guys who find ways to WIN. They don't have the proper leader to bring it out of them. I agree with you about "greatness," particularly with regard to Faulk and Evans (not a money player, as good as he is). Reed is more dependable than him in terms of getting open and making a play at crunch time. The only ones who have shown signs of being that sort of player on offense are Lynch, Edwards (despite his poor play of late), and Peters (who has been playing very well late in games in crunch time). All have the capability to shine in the fourth quarters of close games. Whether they do it or not on a consistent basis is a different matter - I'm talking about demonstrated ability to do it. The rest of the offense doesn't appear to have it. On defense, I've seen McGee make plays late in games, but I'm not sure I'd say he has "greatness" in him. Schoebel has participated in too many late-game collapses over the years to qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I get your point, though I'm not sure that getting "angry" over losing is relevant. Remember "wildman" Gregggg Williams? What I think is is the desire to perform above their level. I think Trent takes it personal but his style is more conservative. It seemed Trent did that against KC; I was impressed with Trent's desire to score two rushing TDs in that game. I think he is having serious trouble reading 3-4 defenses, and there may be some residue complications from the concussion. The concussion excuse should wear off by about 2012 but he always be a Los Gato. He has never displayed any evidence that he gives a crap about winning or being a Buffalo Bill. Combine this with his lack of skill, personality or will to leave the house when the temperature drops below 48 and you have quite the recipe for losing. On December 29 he will be on a flight to Los Gatos and he will think about his job again in May. He will still be thinking primarily about who was drafted in front of him, rather than thinking about throwing the ball to that open receiver more than 4.8 yards away. Many people complain about clean up the city boy and say he will never learn to read a defense. This is quite probably true. He does give a crap when his team wins or loses and he has a personality. The odds of Losman learning to read defenses are between 0 and 5%. The odds of Trent ever giving a crap are much much lower. You can take the boy out of Los Gatos but you can never take the Los Gatos out of the boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Football is the ultimate team game. The coach is an essential catalyst in the overall formula because he is the leader. He sets the tone. He decides who can and who cannot do their job the way it must be done. He organizes a staff, is responsible for player development, game plans, and game day decisions. Putting the right team together, getting them on the same page, and making them execute in a system that accentuates their strengths and attacks the weaknesses of the opponent is the coach's job. When this is missing, a great player cannot actualize greatness. They are swimming against the current of apathy, forced to figure it out on their own, and/or caught trying to covertly fill the void of the coaching staff. Leadership is a delicate, deliberate dance where the circumstances and emotions of the led may require widely varying responses from the leader. Positive reinforcement is one tactic, but it is not the only tactic nor does it work in all situations. Sometimes, a leader has to carry a big stick and show he knows exactly how to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrcursed Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 The concussion excuse should wear off by about 2012 but he always be a Los Gato. He has never displayed any evidence that he gives a crap about winning or being a Buffalo Bill. Combine this with his lack of skill, personality or will to leave the house when the temperature drops below 48 and you have quite the recipe for losing. On December 29 he will be on a flight to Los Gatos and he will think about his job again in May. He will still be thinking primarily about who was drafted in front of him, rather than thinking about throwing the ball to that open receiver more than 4.8 yards away. Many people complain about clean up the city boy and say he will never learn to read a defense. This is quite probably true. He does give a crap when his team wins or loses and he has a personality. The odds of Losman learning to read defenses are between 0 and 5%. The odds of Trent ever giving a crap are much much lower. You can take the boy out of Los Gatos but you can never take the Los Gatos out of the boy. Jesus, did something happen to you in Los Gatos that you'd like to share with the rest of us?? And where do you get your stats/percentages from?? Then you insult his lack of personality because, why, he doesn't frown during an interview?? Seriously, have you met Trent? Where are you coming up with this stuff?? You're literally telling us what he's gonna be thinking about in May. Thanks for the inside info., Ms. Cleo...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 You know what I get sick of, when the teams plays very poorly like they did against Cleveland & San Fran and we log onto BB.com and watch those stupid 68 seconds with Langston Walker. I mean you watch them videos there is noway you can tell if that team won a game or lost one.......If my team played that poorly, trust me the last thing they would be doing is dumb videos like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooderson Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 "Attitude reflect leadership, captain." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 "Attitude reflect leadership, captain." Remember the Titans??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooderson Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Right you are Saint Joseph WR. I feel it displays our situation quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like A Mofo Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 But when the Bills were 5-1....we heard about how they are such a close team...and that Edwards is growing as a leader...and the Bills give it their all etc...they start losing..now they don't care. The Truth: Lack of effort= Piss poor excuse and let's all realize that the Bills are just a decent football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooderson Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Shows how the NFL is analyzed more intensely than any other sport in existence...everything changes every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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