Those blaming JP....??

[murra]

I never said that Edwards means the Bills get the ball more.

LMFAO

What could have given you that idea?

They sustain drives when Edwards is in there.

 

Why am I here?

I'll answer that with a quation.

Why are you here?

 

The coaches didn't prevent Losman from scoring points.

Nothing the coaches did lead to Losman only putting up 17

In fact Losman himself has said how much he likes the OC's play calling.

 

So they had one drive where they ran the ball and that is refusing to let Losman win?

You cannot be serious!

Do you honestly believe that when Edwards starts the Bills don't have at least one drive where they mostly run?

 

hahaha

[murra]

Well, I am just telling you what he said. I remember when NE came here last year for that sunday night game & they asked Madden if JP is the guy to lead this team long term. He said he really did not think he was. He then said, how could everybody in the league be wrong about this guy.

 

Look, I hope Losman plays well if his number is called, I really just do not think that is being realistic given his body of work over the last 4 years.

 

Key word:

 

Madden.

 

Got any Mark David Chapman quotes while we're on people who's opinions are meaningless?

[Gordio]

I was trying to say this the entire time. People refuse to listen. No one realizes that JP did all he could. They simply hate him. I never said he was better than Trent, but what you said is exactly why I think he's a great back up. He was riled up, and the coaches didn't put him in a situation to win, and the defense lost us the game.

 

 

I got to be honest, I really do not hate the guy. In fact I have his home jersey & the throw back of him. I just really think he is a lousy qb. I really do not know how you could draw any other conclusion watching this guy play for the last 4 years.

[Gordio]

Key word:

 

Madden.

 

Got any Mark David Chapman quotes while we're on people who's opinions are meaningless?

 

 

No offense, I think Madden has his hand on the pulse of the league & what is being said about players a little bit more then anybody @ TBD.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

No offense, I think Madden has his hand on the pulse of the league & what is being said about players a little bit more then anybody @ TBD.

But that means that he would have to take his hands off of Brett Favre's balls

[murra]

But that means that he would have to take his hands off of Brett Favre's balls

[JimmyPage]

Versus putting up 24 points on the worst scoring defense in the NFL?

Noooooo not versus 24 against the worst defense.

 

HERE

 

Week 1; 24 (7 on a return)

Week 2: 20

Week 3: 24

week 4: 24 (7 on a return)

 

 

The 2nd year Qb put up at least 20 in 4 straight games.

The 5th year QB put up 17.

 

Now how hard is that to figure out?

Do you realize how much difference there is in win/loss % between 17 and 24 in the NFL?

[Catholic Guilt]

Bill, I've been impressed by TE's play so far this year. But the offense isn't just Edwards, it's the receivers, backs, and (especially) the OL. Based on the first 4 games I see little reason to expect that this offense is poised to be the next great explosive offense. Do I think that Edwards is capable of that kind of performance? Yes, but I don't think he's there yet, and more importantly I don't think the offense as a whole is built for it. Start any of the QBs on this roster against that Arizona team, with our D playing that poorly, and I don't think the results would be much different.

 

You are correct MRW - but those receivers and backs need to get the ball to make a difference.

[FreakPop]

Noooooo not versus 24 against the worst defense.

 

HERE

 

Week 1; 24 (7 on a return)

Week 2: 20

Week 3: 24

week 4: 24 (7 on a return)

 

 

The 2nd year Qb put up at least 20 in 4 straight games.

The 5th year QB put up 17.

 

Now how hard is that to figure out?

Do you realize how much difference there is in win/loss % between 17 and 24 in the NFL?

 

 

Yep, real smart guy here! 3 of those 4 defenses are WORSE than the Cardinals and all of those offenses are WORSE than the Cardinals offense. So you know what that means? Do ya huh, huh... it means the Bills get more offensive plays in better field position. What I find real funny is how their offense couldn't do squat against those inferior defenses for at least 2 qtrs some games 3 qtrs.

 

You really need to get a clue because your argument is very weak at best!

[VOR]

Noooooo not versus 24 against the worst defense.

 

HERE

 

Week 1; 24 (7 on a return)

Week 2: 20

Week 3: 24

week 4: 24 (7 on a return)

 

 

The 2nd year Qb put up at least 20 in 4 straight games.

The 5th year QB put up 17.

 

Now how hard is that to figure out?

Do you realize how much difference there is in win/loss % between 17 and 24 in the NFL?

Do you realize how much difference there is in win/loss between scoring 24 points versus 17 points and giving up 41? Let me help you out: it's still zero!

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Trent has had a few stinky halves of football this season, and has at times looked every bit as ugly as JP.

 

Yes at times, but he's had more better times in between, and he still was able to win the game in the end. Not that I'm blaiming JP fro the loss, but as was stated earler, JP did nothing to help himself to a big contract next season and may have hurt himself as maybe he could hope there are some GM's as delusional as people here are and would have thought with Turk calling the plays and this offense, JP would have been better than TE. After last Sunday, that cat has now been let out of the bag.

 

JP had far more good plays than bad on Sunday, but 2-3 plays along with poor blocking up front and the season's worst defensive performance all fall on his shoulders.

 

Consdiering the serverity of the bad plays, I really don't think he did overall have more good than bad.

 

JP played a pretty good game as a backup as well as you could expect, but if you think he can be a good starter next year, I'd be shocked. Based on what we saw Sunday, he's still the same ol JP. Considering how many teams have very bad QB's he may get a shot as a starter, but will be surprised if he lasts all year as the starter.

 

As many other stated, I don't hate JP, but I've come to realization that after four years he just isn't as good as a guy with 1 1/2 years. There's hope that TE can improve based on his lack of experience, but after four years for JP, there really isn't anymore hope. Admitedly after 1+ years there was hope for JP too. Maybe TE will also hit that wall and never get to the next level. I'd be surprised though as many of the things TE has exceled at are the things that are diffuicult to ever learn such as processing information, sensing the rush, etc.

[FreakPop]

Yes at times, but he's had more better times in between, and he still was able to win the game in the end. Not that I'm blaiming JP fro the loss, but as was stated earler, JP did nothing to help himself to a big contract next season and may have hurt himself as maybe he could hope there are some GM's as delusional as people here are and would have thought with Turk calling the plays and this offense, JP would have been better than TE. After last Sunday, that cat has now been let out of the bag.

 

 

 

Consdiering the serverity of the bad plays, I really don't think he did overall have more good than bad.

 

JP played a pretty good game as a backup as well as you could expect, but if you think he can be a good starter next year, I'd be shocked. Based on what we saw Sunday, he's still the same ol JP. Considering how many teams have very bad QB's he may get a shot as a starter, but will be surprised if he lasts all year as the starter.

 

As many other stated, I don't hate JP, but I've come to realization that after four years he just isn't as good as a guy with 1 1/2 years. There's hope that TE can improve based on his lack of experience, but after four years for JP, there really isn't anymore hope. Admitedly after 1+ years there was hope for JP too. Maybe TE will also hit that wall and never get to the next level. I'd be surprised though as many of the things TE has exceled at are the things that are diffuicult to ever learn such as processing information, sensing the rush, etc.

 

 

Well lookie here another one who doesn't get it!

[JimmyPage]

Yep, real smart guy here! 3 of those 4 defenses are WORSE than the Cardinals and all of those offenses are WORSE than the Cardinals offense. So you know what that means? Do ya huh, huh... it means the Bills get more offensive plays in better field position. What I find real funny is how their offense couldn't do squat against those inferior defenses for at least 2 qtrs some games 3 qtrs.

 

You really need to get a clue because your argument is very weak at best!

If you haven't caught on after 4 years then chances are that you will never catch on.

[JimmyPage]

If we could trade Losman for a pass rusher that would be ideal.

It'll never happen though, his trade value is nil.

[The Dean]

If we could trade Losman for a pass rusher that would be ideal.

It'll never happen though, his trade value is nil.

 

 

Know of any #2 QBs in the league, in the last year of their contract, that would bring a legit pass rusher?

[bizell]

I never said that Edwards means the Bills get the ball more.

LMFAO

What could have given you that idea?

They sustain drives when Edwards is in there.

 

I'm glad you brought up that fallacy of the Bills "sustaining drives" when Edwards is in -

 

this snippet was published before the AZ game

 

Wow, Buffalo is 4-0 at the quarter-mile mark! Arizona got off to a quick start against San Fran and Miami, but have since come back down to earth with back-to-back losses. Now the Bills take the long trip to Phoenix and look to go 5-0 for the first time since 1991. They’ve used the formula of a suffocating defense and manageable QB play that has Bills fans everywhere dreaming of the glory years of the late 80s and early 90s. The Cards got “Favred” last week and need to rebound quickly with Dallas and Carolina lined up the next two games.

 

At this point, Buffalo’s offense is a bit of an enigma. QB Trent Edwards is not the type to beat you on his own, but his steady play has kept games close for three quarters and his leadership/poise have brought Buffalo back to victory for three straight weeks in the 4th. Edwards is ranked 5th in completion percentage and 7th in yards per completion. He’s thrown only 2 interceptions and has led the Bills offense to 109 points (tied for 7th in the League). But Edwards has also been sacked 11 times, has a 34.6% third-down conversion rate, ranks 23rd in three-and-outs and has generated only 3 drives of 10 plays or more.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

I said i was done with this thread...but i had to return to reply to JimmyPage....

 

 

 

This is a classic case of someone not understanding football enough here...He claims the Jets torched the Cards defense...they scored 56 points and we couldnt even score 20....

 

What he doesnt realize is that,....

 

The cards turned over the ball 7 times

 

 

 

7 TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

If our defense could have stopped them a couple times in the first half...the 4th quarter, were JP and the offense imploded, would have been completely different...

 

Wait a second YOOOOOOO, there was a very important 7 in this game too.

 

 

 

 

As in the Cards scored on 7 of their first 8 drives! JP's fault!!!!!!!

[Bill from NYC]

Know of any #2 QBs in the league, in the last year of their contract, that would bring a legit pass rusher?

 

No. None at all. It is too difficult to get these guys. I do however think that if a team really needed/wanted a quarterback, they would offer some draft picks, and the trade would be contigent upon signing said qb to a long term deal.

 

Btw, the above is not intended as a dig against Losman.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

Here are the key points to the whole thread:

 

1. We can look at this 2 ways

2. Most of the diehard JP fans refuse to look at it 2 ways, they want to look at it only one way

 

Which way is that ?

Answer: the defense played like crap so it didn't matter anyways.

 

 

What is the other way to look at it?

Answer :The offense with Losman at QB only put up 17 points vs arizona, very few defenses can beat arizona if their offense only puts up 17, so it didn't matter how the defense played anyways.

 

 

They choose to assign blame to the defense to shield Losman.

But the truth is it can easily be looked the other way around.

 

 

Understand that no matter how bad the defense played Losman had his chances to produce.

Funny thing about football is that you get the ball back every time the opponent scores.

And the offense with Losman at the helm only put up 17.

He certain isn't without blame in this loss.

In fact he never gave the defense a chance to win it, did he?

No, he certainly didn't.

 

How do I look at it?

The defense played like crap, had a very poor gameplan, and did not adjust.

Losman looked like, well Losman, and that's not enough to get it done.

Had the offense sustained and finished some drives Arizona wouldn't have scored 41.

This game was lost on both offense and defense.

I think, no, I know, we would have stood a better chance with Edwards in there.

 

The Bills had scored on 3 of their first 6 possessions. One was a JP's fumble (even the most diehard JP hater would have to agree that he had nothing to do with that fumble) and the Royal fumble (JP's fault because he probably threw the ball late or there was someone else open downfield) They had TWO possessions in the 3rd qtr.

So lets do the math:

3 scoring drives leaves 3.

2 fumbles leaves one left.

The remaining drive was a 4 minute drive that ended in a punt.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=281005022 (SOURCE)

 

My point is that the whole "sustained drive" theory makes no sense here...and that JP is a scapgoat for a horrible defensive gameplan.

[ch19079]

You defiantly can not blame JP for this loss. He played better than anyone could expect a backup QB to play in that situation.

 

We did see why Edwards is the starter, with JPs slow progression, but I would love to keep JP as the backup next year (though that just wont happen).

 

The bills inability to stop the Cards on 3rd down lost this game. Maybe if edwards was in the game the bills may have been able to keep up with the cards offence, but I dout it.

 

The D just plain sucked. We did well agenst the run, but the cards just passed over and over. It was obvious throughout the game the defense would just drop back and wait for an INT. But our front 4 could not put ANY pressure on Warner. He even tripped in the endzone and had enough time to get up and throw the ball away. Warner will throw INTs, but vet NFL QBs who get that much time make plays. We busted Warners jaw open, but stopped blitzing after that. We didnt even discise it.

 

This loss is completly on our D.

 

On the bright side, when is the last time we got our first loss of the season in week 5? I think I may have been 13 at the time.