ieatcrayonz Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 They really screwed up by not signing Eric King and Geisinger when they had the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willis990 Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Top D ?? C'mon..First off they lost Samuel & Gay & Wilson + Vrabel & Pooski have seen better days.. Statistically, they are actually the # 9 D..far off # 1 who by the way is Baltimore...Buffalo is #5.. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tab...mp;d-447263-n=1 Here is the top 10 (total D) BALTIMORE TENNESSEE NY GIANTS PITTSBURGH BUFFALO CHI TOWN ARIZONA ??? NY JETS *ATRIOTS COWBOYS Your very knowledgeable. Who is second in pts allowed?? hold on I know it's the Pats at 10 per game. The Pats easily have the best DLine in Football w. Warren, Seymour and Wilfork. BTW- Yards mean nothing-- points is the stat that analysts look at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDairis Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 They really screwed up by not signing Eric King and Geisinger when they had the chance. They never had the chance to sign King. He was claimed by TN. Only Houston and NO passed on King, who is still starting at nickel for the Titans three years later. They could use Justin right now, but Justin definitely took longer than expected to get the interior stuff down. He looked great all preseason and has been active with King every game - not too shabby for a FIFTH and a SIXTH... which just reminds everyone how dumb the Bills were letting both go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 McCown is green, not dumb. Did quite well on the Wonderlic. Has a lot of potential and has only played for horrible teams so far. Did some impressive things with poor supporting casts, like taking 8 sacks against Minn and standing tough to throw the winning TD pass on the final play. McCown has great tools. You can be the smartest QB to ever play, but if you cannot throw a deep pass, you surrender part of your offense and allow the defense to stack. I totally disagree that Pennington "gives them a better chance to win." He gives them nothing but a surrender offense that has been totally unable to exploit two marginal defenses. Whether Ginn is a BP pick or not doesn't change the fact that he is on the Fins roster, a roster devoid of WR talent except Ginn deep. Take away that and the whole thing implodes. Hagan and Wilford have the worst set of hands in the NFL. To "develop," a young QB should play. Henne is a rookie so he is learning the playbook etc. Clemons will get a chance if the Jest get eliminated early. Having seen both in college, I really don't think either will make it as an NFL starter. Henne just doesn't think fast enough on the field. He has all the tools, yet he clearly never put it altogether, and that is the difference between "prospect" and "great QB." Clemons doesn't have a gun like Henne, and has already had a host of injuries. I thought he was more of a 5th Rounder than a 2nd. The "developing" backup QB in the NFC East with the most potential is Kevin O'Connell of the Pats. Don't cheer too hard for Cassel to get hurt... Great post. I would add to this that Favre isn't getting younger, he's not going to last 16 games, and they'll be right back where the were. Not deciding upon and developing a young QB prospect and picking up Favre has set the Jets back 2-3 more years. Which I'm fine with. Kevin O'Donnell has the tools to succeed Cassell, just not this year. Again, What happened to Brady could happen again; that line is still susceptible to the blitz. O'Donnell coming in this year won't lead them to the promised land no matter how good he might be. If I'm playing Pennington and the Fins, I blitz every which way. Who's going to catch it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 which just reminds everyone how dumb the Bills were letting both go... You're right. They should have cut Greer & Youboty and kept King. They should have kept Geinsiger over Butler. Keep it up. I need the daily reassurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Pennington couldnt throw a deep ball BEFORE his surgery. He would kinda float one up. there that may have gone 40-50 yards if it caught the wind right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDairis Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 You're right. They should have cut Greer & Youboty and kept King. They should have kept Geinsiger over Butler. Keep it up. I need the daily reassurance. King is better than either Youboty or Greer. However, it takes some ability to assess talent to figure that out, and you have none, just the ability to parrot announcers, stats and gurus while totally misunderstanding that which you watch every Sunday. Geisinger was a late round position switch prospect and has taken three years to get it down, but the Skins love him, and his smarts help at C too. Plenty of teams wuold kill for Justin right now, including the team the Bills just beat. The Jags have precisely nobody better than Justin inside right now. Is anyone here surprised that a topic about Parcells being dumb about Penny and Ginn turns into another debate about cutting King and Justin??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 This guy is comedy every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDairis Posted September 18, 2008 Author Share Posted September 18, 2008 Great post. I would add to this that Favre isn't getting younger, he's not going to last 16 games, and they'll be right back where the were. Not deciding upon and developing a young QB prospect and picking up Favre has set the Jets back 2-3 more years. Which I'm fine with. Kevin O'Donnell has the tools to succeed Cassell, just not this year. Again, What happened to Brady could happen again; that line is still susceptible to the blitz. O'Donnell coming in this year won't lead them to the promised land no matter how good he might be. If I'm playing Pennington and the Fins, I blitz every which way. Who's going to catch it? I'm with you. I hate starting rookie QBs. O'Connell is different from NOD and is not related. However, as a rook from SD State, he probably isn't that bright. He did lead some drives late in preseason and became a fan favorite. The kid just has unreal tools - arm strength, wheels, size, power, and finds ways to win. He also seems very poised, relaxed, and is well liked by teammates - strong leadership qualities. Cassel certainly has the offense down and is the better option now. If and when O'Connell gets a similar understanding, he has the upside you look for to be special, and was a decent value late in Round 3 even if some dummy publications questioned taking him over Andre Woodson. Notice too that Cassel really didn't ever go deep to Moss. If the NFL ends up believing he can't... But, yeah, if he isn't ready, don't play him. Tossing rookie QBs in who aren't ready is not a good idea. Still, I mean, comparing O'Connell as a prospect to the likes of high Second Rounder Beck, who just doesn't have tools at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 King is better than either Youboty or Greer. However, it takes some ability to assess talent to figure that out, and you have none, just the ability to parrot announcers, stats and gurus while totally misunderstanding that which you watch every Sunday. Is that why 5th round pick King couldn't beat out street free agent Greer? Is that why another street FA is starting in Tenn, while King is doing a Kiwaukee Thomas? Yeah, why bring stats into a football discussion? Let's just misunderstand the highlights of King running after the WR making the catch. Funny, even when Youboty was struggling, I remember his solid tackling. All I remember about King is a game of "catch the runner if you can" Geisinger was a late round position switch prospect and has taken three years to get it down, but the Skins love him, and his smarts help at C too. Plenty of teams wuold kill for Justin right now, including the team the Bills just beat. The Jags have precisely nobody better than Justin inside right now. And two teams dumped him, and he's yet to see game action on his third team. While the other late round pick at tackle looks to be the entrenched starter after learning an interior position within two years. One is not like the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Is anyone here surprised that a topic about Parcells being dumb about Penny and Ginn turns into another debate about cutting King and Justin??? I'm certainly not surprised that you couldn't resist the bait. Thanks for picking up your odd, odd crusade again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 McCown is green, not dumb. Did quite well on the Wonderlic. Has a lot of potential and has only played for horrible teams so far. Did some impressive things with poor supporting casts, like taking 8 sacks against Minn and standing tough to throw the winning TD pass on the final play. McCown has great tools. Surely, wonderlic scores mean a lot. Do you want the list of players that did great on the wonderlic and sucked in the NFL, and did poorly on the wonderlic but starred in the NFL? Don't you think the fact that he played on horrible teams, with horrible QBs, and still couldn't win the job (with 5 different teams), that it says something about how bad he is? He couldn't beat out Daunte Culpepper, Drew Stanton, Jon Kitna, Kurt Warner, Matt Moore, and Chad Pennington. But yeah... he's good. To "develop," a young QB should play. Henne is a rookie so he is learning the playbook etc. Clemons will get a chance if the Jest get eliminated early. I think its hilarious, and maybe an insight in to how stupid you are, that you said that, and then later on in the same thread said this: I'm with you. I hate starting rookie QBs. Henne just doesn't think fast enough on the field. He has all the tools, yet he clearly never put it altogether This was my personal favorite. Sounds like your boy McCown, don't you think? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE GASH STATION Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Your very knowledgeable. Who is second in pts allowed?? hold on I know it's the Pats at 10 per game. The Pats easily have the best DLine in Football w. Warren, Seymour and Wilfork. BTW- Yards mean nothing-- points is the stat that analysts look at Ummm..Drrr..fries with that one Willis?? I wasn't aware they were teaching monkeys to use a computer these days ? Anyway, its "You are very knowledgeable" if you please..If you are going to play wise guy, at least use the correct english. Warren & Wilpork are decent, Seymour has seen better days...lets talk again about stats after week 8 dumb dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 The mess in Miami has now come full circle. Tedd Ginn really isn't anything more than a deep threat as a WR. Ohio State never had him run short routes unless he had a huge cushion. As a short range "possession" receiver, Ginn sukks - doesn't fight for balls. Now, given that about Ginn, the decision to go with Pennington has essentially reduced Ginn's value to the Fins to zero, because Pennington just cannot throw a deep ball after his shoulder surgery. Granted, Josh McCown is unproven and clearly not a "savior" as Favre is supposed to be to the Jest. However, McCown is both mobile and strong armed, and having him in there would keep the deep pass to Ginn alive and force opposing safeties to play back, off the LOS, helping to open up the running game. Indeed, if you haven't noticed, the Fins OL is geared towards run blocking as opposed to pass blocking. Grabbing Pennington and dumping McCown before McCown even had a chance to play has reduced the Fins O to short passes to a really lousy set of "possession" receivers and stacked the box run defense. Parcells, who drafted Pennington in Round 1 from Marshall, clearly did not think this situation through. Pennington cannot throw a deep ball and that is why the JEST parted with him. Everyone who plays the Fins just has to "cover" the likes of Wilford and Hagan in man and dump everyone else in the box hunting Ricky and Ronnie. It ain't working, even against inferior defenses. To those of you who thought the Favre deal strengthened two divisional rivals, think again. Favre didn't exactly light up the Pats, and Pennington is a serious liability to the Fins. Neither franchise is developing anyone young either... Hate to say it, but the best QB in the division right now is... some injury case Third Rounder from Stanford. Hmmm.... The Bills short pass offense seems to sit well with fans this year. It would probably be OK in Miami if they were 2-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 So they had the choice between a smart QB that can't throw the deep ball, vs a dumbass QB with a strong arm, and they chose the smart one.... Sound familiar? Ginn is not Parcells' pick and Pennington gives them a better chance to win than McCown, and does everything better than him other than throw the deep ball. And how is having Chad Henne and Kellen Clemons as the backup QB's not having anyone young behind the starters to develop? Yeah, Henne will probably be the guy eventually. They don't want to throw him to the wolves, and Pennington is a nice stop-gap locker room guy. Pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDairis Posted September 18, 2008 Author Share Posted September 18, 2008 I'm certainly not surprised that you couldn't resist the bait. Thanks for picking up your odd, odd crusade again. Truth be told, suggesting King and Justin were two excellent values in Rounds 5 and 6 was supposed to be the "evidence" that I am not "good" at assessing talent. Things like 1. being the only Draft site to pan Robert Gallery as an OLT 2. having Mario Williams and Jay Cutler as the two top prospects in 06 while calling Reggie Bush a "mid to late First rounder" 3. claiming Jamal Anderson was late off the snap and hence would not be a good NFL edge rusher 4. praising Kyle Williams and Ko as the best values of the Bills 06 class Yeah, those are the things they don't bring up here... Sorry for being right all the time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDairis Posted September 18, 2008 Author Share Posted September 18, 2008 "He couldn't beat out Daunte Culpepper" - false - he beat out Pepp, started the first game, threw for 300 yards and had the Raiders ahead, and then broke his finger on his throwing hand. Being a Raiders QB since Gallery was picked has meant certain failure. "Drew Stanton" - LOL! - dude, he was never on the same team with Stanton. He lost to Jon Kitna that year, and Kitna wasn't the Lions problem. "Kurt Warner" - again, inaccurate - McCown did beat out Warner with no experience from SAM HOUSTON STATE and an MVP performance in the Senior Bowl. McCown may be a 5 year NFL vet, but he is still green. Anyone who watched him overcome 8 sacks and beat the Vikings understands what he went through so far in the NFL as a green QB with ABSOLUTELY NO PROTECTION at all. If Kurt Warner was supposed to be the "answer," why did the Cards brilliantly select Matt L over Cutler??? "Chad Pennington" - laughable - Penny was handed the job and McCown was not given a snap with the first team after Penny arrived, but McCown was reportedly ahead of Henne and Beck - not exactly a HOF resume point but heck... "Matt Moore" - false and pathetic. Moore is hurt. Carolina traded for McCown because Moore is hurt and they needed a backup. Josh McCown is still a green NFL QB prospect with amazing tools who has yet to play a snap in the NFL with anything resembling a decent OL or supporting cast. The Fins royally FUed by dishing him and latching on to Penny, especially with Ted Ginn as the "1" WR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDairis Posted September 18, 2008 Author Share Posted September 18, 2008 Hmmm.... The Bills short pass offense seems to sit well with fans this year. It would probably be OK in Miami if they were 2-0. Edwards has demonstrated the ability to zip a medium ball and throw an accurate deep ball. With Evans, that forces the D to defend the deep ball, which opens up the shorter routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDairis Posted September 18, 2008 Author Share Posted September 18, 2008 Yeah, Henne will probably be the guy eventually. They don't want to throw him to the wolves, and Pennington is a nice stop-gap locker room guy. Pretty simple. How much of Henne did you watch at Michigan? Carson Palmer did take four years to be a good QB at USC. Henne took four years and was still not a good QB. Sometimes they "develop" and sometimes they don't. In a weak year for QBs, he went behind Ryan and a McCown like prospect from Delaware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Truth be told, suggesting King and Justin were two excellent values in Rounds 5 and 6 was supposed to be the "evidence" that I am not "good" at assessing talent. Things like 1. being the only Draft site to pan Robert Gallery as an OLT 2. having Mario Williams and Jay Cutler as the two top prospects in 06 while calling Reggie Bush a "mid to late First rounder" 3. claiming Jamal Anderson was late off the snap and hence would not be a good NFL edge rusher 4. praising Kyle Williams and Ko as the best values of the Bills 06 class Yeah, those are the things they don't bring up here... Sorry for being right all the time... Got links for any of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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