If Peters doesn't show

[Sisyphean Bills]

If he's done playing now...about 5 1/2 mil a year the last two years.

What is his average salary over his career?

 

What is the average salary of the top 5 (in terms of salary) LTs league wide?

[Sisyphean Bills]

The funny thing is that I think Parker is actually playing this wrong. I don't think either side of this is without fault.

[SwampD]

What is his average salary over his career?

 

What is the average salary of the top 5 (in terms of salary) LTs league wide?

1.Who cares what his average salary for is his career is. He used to be an average TE, now he's a LT.

 

2. Who cares what the average salary is of the top 5 LT's is. He is not a top 5 LT. Pass blocking maybe top 2 or 3, but his run blocking has a lot to be desired. If he proved to me this year that he can do both then I agree and pay him.

[Mickey]

There is zero probability he sits for the season or the Bills trade him. That is just hysteria. I am disappointed as anyone that this situation is occurring, but Peters has no leverage and will show up. The alternative is career suicide and bankruptcy. Unfortunately, because he has chosen this route, the team will not be as good as they could have been, even if he shows up now. For that he should be rewarded? I do not think so, but others clearly do.

He hasn't chosen any route. He asked for a new deal and the team told him no. He said to call back when and if they change their minds. It wasn't a choice between showing up and getting a new deal and not showing up. It was a choice between showing up and getting no new deal or holding out and hoping the team changes their mind resulting in a new deal. Option one had zero chance of resulting in a new deal and option two has at least a chance of resulting in a new deal. Holding out has worked out for many players, many of whom had just as little leverage as you think Peters has.

 

He should be rewarded for making the pro bowl and being one of the bets LT's in the league and certainly the best offensive lineman on this team. The performance the team got from him last year was worth about 7-8 million on the open market. He was paid half that at best. So we already got a bargain year out of him. The teams wants another and he wants to get paid what he is worth. Some think we should keep getting twice the performance for 1/2 the cost out of him and some of us think he should simply get paid based on merit. If they had started dealing with him in February like they did with Schobel in 2007, conceding from the git-go that a new deal was justified, there never would have been a need for him to hold out as there wasn't with Schobel whose basic deal was done before camp. Overdorf stated that they went to Schobel themselves, and did so early because that is what you have to do to keep veteran players who make the pro bowl. Despite the team's good faith in starting to deal in Feb. of 2007, Aaron still skipped the firts 4 practices in March just to show that he meant businsess and would hold out if they didn't get the deal actually done.

 

In contrast, the team's position has been no deal for Peters this year, period. That doesn't leave a heckuva lot to talk about now does it? Peters' only choice was to play another year on his current contract or at least take a stab at a hold out and see what happens. It is a harsh reality but every snap Walker and Chambers take carries with it the possibility of a serious injury. If they were lost for the season, where would be without Peters coming back? He still has plenty of time to show up before missing a game pay check and clearly doesn't give a fig about the fines accumulating. So this costs him essentially nothing and there is always a chance that something breaks in his favor while he waits. If it doesn't, he just comes in before losing any real pay.

[Mickey]

1.Who cares what his average salary for is his career is. He used to be an average TE, now he's a LT.

 

2. Who cares what the average salary is of the top 5 LT's is. He is not a top 5 LT. Pass blocking maybe top 2 or 3, but his run blocking has a lot to be desired. If he proved to me this year that he can do both then I agree and pay him.

 

 

The rest of the league disagrees with your assessment:

 

Buffalo's new linchpin lineman has gone from what many league talent evaluators viewed as an NFL project to a Pro Bowl caliber blind-side protector, with potential to spare.

 

"He's very, very talented," said Bills offensive line coach Jim McNally. "His potential is unlimited. He's close to 350 pounds and he can run as fast as you want him to run. He's strong, good agility, balance, direction. He has all the tools."

 

The problem last season was the rest of the league had not yet been fully exposed to what Peters put on the field on a weekly basis. Baltimore defensive coordinator Rex Ryan didn't know who Jason Peters was last year until after Pro Bowl voting had taken place in mid-December. While watching tape of Buffalo's offensive line in preparation for their 2006 season finale with the Bills, Ryan's eyes were drawn to number 71.

 

"I never knew him from anybody," said Ryan of Peters. "But I was watching the tape and I was like, 'Whoa who is this kid?' He really stood out."

 

Peters stood out so much in fact that during pre-game warmups prior to last year's final regular season game, Ryan spoke to Bills offensive line coach Jim McNally to pay McNally's star pupil a compliment.

 

"Rex Ryan said, 'Wow. We didn't really see you play, but after we saw your tape we would have voted for your left tackle for the Pro Bowl,'" recalled McNally.

 

Chances are Ryan voted for Peters this season helping the left tackle earn selection to his first career Pro Bowl as the Bills left tackle was the lone all-star representative for the club this season.

 

Peters has taken one of the more unusual paths to NFL stardom, and ironically it was due to his freakish physical abilities. After committing to Arkansas out of high school, the Razorback coaching staff was in such awe of his athleticism for a player his size, they could not decide where to put him.

 

He played defensive end, defensive tackle, offensive tackle and finally tight end in his three collegiate seasons. All the position switching prevented Peters from maximizing his physical skills as he was forced to spend most of his time getting adjusted to the nuances of a new position each season.

 

As a 6'4" 320-pound tight end he ran a 4.9 40-time at the NFL Combine but few people took notice. Peters was passed over by the entire league until Buffalo called shortly after the draft concluded to sign him as an undrafted rookie free agent.

 

He began his career as a tight end with the Bills, but as a member of the team's practice squad after he did not make the team's 53-man roster coming out of training camp.

 

Peters was called up in mid-November and played on special teams and at tight end before transitioning to offensive tackle early in the 2005 campaign. But the transition took place on the practice field. With no NFL game experience on the line, Peters was thrust into the starting lineup at right tackle on national television at New England.

 

The results were impressive. Peters held Patriots pass rusher Willie McGinest to a pedestrian five tackles with no sacks, no quarterback pressures and no quarterback hits.

 

Now in his second season at left tackle, Peters not only handles the opponent's best pass rusher on a weekly basis, he does it with no help.

 

"We left Jason over there by himself," said McNally plainly.

 

If backs or tight ends were used to chip on pass rushers it was typically done on the right side of the formation to assist Langston Walker.

 

Seeing his one-on-one ability on film against the likes of perennial Pro Bowl ends like Jason Taylor and Richard Seymour twice a year, opposing coaches likely had a lot to say about Peters' first Pro Bowl selection.

 

"He's a great player," Ryan told Buffalobills.com. "Hell the tape doesn't lie. This kid has tons of ability. I'm not ready to put him in the Hall of Fame yet, but I am ready to put him in the Pro Bowl."

 

"He just has to continue to play," said McNally. "The only person that can stop Jason Peters is himself. His ability is limitless."

 

 

Yeah, screw this guy, who needs talent like that? Besides, the last time we had a pro bowl LT was Will Wolford and who needs that? By now, we are all used having our Sundays free after December. Signing Peters could really mess that tradition up for all of us. Imagine having to watch the Bills play in February. Who needs it?

[Adam]

I am starting to worry about the injury. You usually hear from the player or agent pretty quickly on a holdout

[Sisyphean Bills]

Yeah, screw this guy, who needs talent like that? Besides, the last time we had a pro bowl LT was Will Wolford and who needs that? By now, we are all used having our Sundays free after December. Signing Peters could really mess that tradition up for all of us. Imagine having to watch the Bills play in February. Who needs it?

Maybe some are thinking we were truly better off with John Fina.

I am starting to worry about the injury. You usually hear from the player or agent pretty quickly on a holdout

That is definitely an interesting piece of this puzzle...

[AJ1]

He hasn't chosen any route. He asked for a new deal and the team told him no. He said to call back when and if they change their minds. It wasn't a choice between showing up and getting a new deal and not showing up. It was a choice between showing up and getting no new deal or holding out and hoping the team changes their mind resulting in a new deal. Option one had zero chance of resulting in a new deal and option two has at least a chance of resulting in a new deal. Holding out has worked out for many players, many of whom had just as little leverage as you think Peters has.

 

He should be rewarded for making the pro bowl and being one of the bets LT's in the league and certainly the best offensive lineman on this team. The performance the team got from him last year was worth about 7-8 million on the open market. He was paid half that at best. So we already got a bargain year out of him. The teams wants another and he wants to get paid what he is worth. Some think we should keep getting twice the performance for 1/2 the cost out of him and some of us think he should simply get paid based on merit. If they had started dealing with him in February like they did with Schobel in 2007, conceding from the git-go that a new deal was justified, there never would have been a need for him to hold out as there wasn't with Schobel whose basic deal was done before camp. Overdorf stated that they went to Schobel themselves, and did so early because that is what you have to do to keep veteran players who make the pro bowl. Despite the team's good faith in starting to deal in Feb. of 2007, Aaron still skipped the firts 4 practices in March just to show that he meant businsess and would hold out if they didn't get the deal actually done.

 

In contrast, the team's position has been no deal for Peters this year, period. That doesn't leave a heckuva lot to talk about now does it? Peters' only choice was to play another year on his current contract or at least take a stab at a hold out and see what happens. It is a harsh reality but every snap Walker and Chambers take carries with it the possibility of a serious injury. If they were lost for the season, where would be without Peters coming back? He still has plenty of time to show up before missing a game pay check and clearly doesn't give a fig about the fines accumulating. So this costs him essentially nothing and there is always a chance that something breaks in his favor while he waits. If it doesn't, he just comes in before losing any real pay.

 

He just waltzes in without any stigma attached? No damage to his reputation. His teammates are entirely forgiving. The brass pats him on the back even though his actions were a major disruption and his lack of loyalty, astounding. He doesn't look the biggest fool ever?

 

He's rolled the dice looking for a Bills cave-in. He doesn't get it, all the other results are bad for him.

[SwampD]

The rest of the league disagrees with your assessment:

 

Buffalo's new linchpin lineman has gone from what many league talent evaluators viewed as an NFL project to a Pro Bowl caliber blind-side protector, with potential to spare.

 

"He's very, very talented," said Bills offensive line coach Jim McNally. "His potential is unlimited. He's close to 350 pounds and he can run as fast as you want him to run. He's strong, good agility, balance, direction. He has all the tools."

 

The problem last season was the rest of the league had not yet been fully exposed to what Peters put on the field on a weekly basis. Baltimore defensive coordinator Rex Ryan didn't know who Jason Peters was last year until after Pro Bowl voting had taken place in mid-December. While watching tape of Buffalo's offensive line in preparation for their 2006 season finale with the Bills, Ryan's eyes were drawn to number 71.

 

"I never knew him from anybody," said Ryan of Peters. "But I was watching the tape and I was like, 'Whoa who is this kid?' He really stood out."

 

Peters stood out so much in fact that during pre-game warmups prior to last year's final regular season game, Ryan spoke to Bills offensive line coach Jim McNally to pay McNally's star pupil a compliment.

 

"Rex Ryan said, 'Wow. We didn't really see you play, but after we saw your tape we would have voted for your left tackle for the Pro Bowl,'" recalled McNally.

 

Chances are Ryan voted for Peters this season helping the left tackle earn selection to his first career Pro Bowl as the Bills left tackle was the lone all-star representative for the club this season.

 

Peters has taken one of the more unusual paths to NFL stardom, and ironically it was due to his freakish physical abilities. After committing to Arkansas out of high school, the Razorback coaching staff was in such awe of his athleticism for a player his size, they could not decide where to put him.

 

He played defensive end, defensive tackle, offensive tackle and finally tight end in his three collegiate seasons. All the position switching prevented Peters from maximizing his physical skills as he was forced to spend most of his time getting adjusted to the nuances of a new position each season.

 

As a 6'4" 320-pound tight end he ran a 4.9 40-time at the NFL Combine but few people took notice. Peters was passed over by the entire league until Buffalo called shortly after the draft concluded to sign him as an undrafted rookie free agent.

 

He began his career as a tight end with the Bills, but as a member of the team's practice squad after he did not make the team's 53-man roster coming out of training camp.

 

Peters was called up in mid-November and played on special teams and at tight end before transitioning to offensive tackle early in the 2005 campaign. But the transition took place on the practice field. With no NFL game experience on the line, Peters was thrust into the starting lineup at right tackle on national television at New England.

 

The results were impressive. Peters held Patriots pass rusher Willie McGinest to a pedestrian five tackles with no sacks, no quarterback pressures and no quarterback hits.

 

Now in his second season at left tackle, Peters not only handles the opponent's best pass rusher on a weekly basis, he does it with no help.

 

"We left Jason over there by himself," said McNally plainly.

 

If backs or tight ends were used to chip on pass rushers it was typically done on the right side of the formation to assist Langston Walker.

 

Seeing his one-on-one ability on film against the likes of perennial Pro Bowl ends like Jason Taylor and Richard Seymour twice a year, opposing coaches likely had a lot to say about Peters' first Pro Bowl selection.

 

"He's a great player," Ryan told Buffalobills.com. "Hell the tape doesn't lie. This kid has tons of ability. I'm not ready to put him in the Hall of Fame yet, but I am ready to put him in the Pro Bowl."

 

"He just has to continue to play," said McNally. "The only person that can stop Jason Peters is himself. His ability is limitless."

 

 

Yeah, screw this guy, who needs talent like that? Besides, the last time we had a pro bowl LT was Will Wolford and who needs that? By now, we are all used having our Sundays free after December. Signing Peters could really mess that tradition up for all of us. Imagine having to watch the Bills play in February. Who needs it?

Let's see. I said -

1.Who cares what his average salary for is his career is. He used to be an average TE, now he's a LT.

 

this article said -

Peters has taken one of the more unusual paths to NFL stardom, and ironically it was due to his freakish physical abilities. After committing to Arkansas out of high school, the Razorback coaching staff was in such awe of his athleticism for a player his size, they could not decide where to put him.

 

 

I said -

2. Who cares what the average salary is of the top 5 LT's is. He is not a top 5 LT. Pass blocking maybe top 2 or 3, but his run blocking has a lot to be desired.

 

This article said -

Peters not only handles the opponent's best pass rusher on a weekly basis, he does it with no help.

 

 

This article said -

He just has to continue to play," said McNally. "The only person that can stop Jason Peters is himself. His ability is limitless

 

I said -

If he proved to me this year that he can do both then I agree and pay him.

 

yeah, we're pretty far off.

[IDBillzFan]

No, you see, I am in this thing for life. Being a Bills Fan is a part of my identity. I realize that this could be considered bizarre, but so be it. You understand; you are after all "LABillzFan," no?

I don't agree with any of this. In fact, I completely agree. I would never abandon my fandom. Beyond beer and the occasional cigar, it's my only other vice and I remain fully committed to all three 'til death do us part. I'm just saying that the team's obligation to us is to do nothing more than field a team...good or bad. That is where their obligation to their fan base begins and ends. Now, if they want to increase their fan base and sell a lot of tickets and merchandise, it's in their interest to field a GOOD team. But do they OWE us that? Nope.

 

So the Bills could cut their entire current roster and replace them with arena football league players and you'd see nothing wrong with that? The Buffalo Bills organization does have a responsibility to their fans to put forth an honest and fair effort of putting the best team out on the field. IMO, they haven't been fair when one considers the reworked Schobel deal, the overpayment of Chris Kelsay and contrasting those with their non-interest in rewarding their first potentially HOF player since the Superbowl days. I would cut Kelsay's overpaid @ss to find the indispensable Peters' extra cash to make him happy.

I may have a problem with it, but if that's what the team opts to do, then it's my choice as to whether I want to invest my time, money and emotion to follow that effort. Please see my point above.

 

Feeling entitled is not really the point.

Actually, that was precisely his point. And the only point I was disagreeing with. Simply being a fan does not entitle you to a winner any more than being an entry-level employee entitles you to anything other than a paycheck.

[Mickey]

Let's see. I said -

1.Who cares what his average salary for is his career is. He used to be an average TE, now he's a LT.

 

this article said -

Peters has taken one of the more unusual paths to NFL stardom, and ironically it was due to his freakish physical abilities. After committing to Arkansas out of high school, the Razorback coaching staff was in such awe of his athleticism for a player his size, they could not decide where to put him.

 

 

I said -

2. Who cares what the average salary is of the top 5 LT's is. He is not a top 5 LT. Pass blocking maybe top 2 or 3, but his run blocking has a lot to be desired.

 

This article said -

Peters not only handles the opponent's best pass rusher on a weekly basis, he does it with no help.

 

 

This article said -

He just has to continue to play," said McNally. "The only person that can stop Jason Peters is himself. His ability is limitless

 

I said -

If he proved to me this year that he can do both then I agree and pay him.

 

yeah, we're pretty far off.

He has proved that. Read the articles linked in the new thread I started on how good Jason Peters is.

 

Even in this article, they called him "a great player", not "a great pass blocker". Pass blocking against top flight DE's is clearly why LT's are so critical so naturally it is what was discussed most in the article. As for his future, that was mentioned only to show that he can get even better, not that he isn't the best now. About the only thing Ryan said that wasn't totally gushing was that he isn't quite ready yet for the hall of fame. Clearly, he is waaaaaaay better than his current contract right now.

[Dan]

That is one way it could go. Another is that he sits for the season or until the team figures he is worth more to them in a trade than sitting home accumulating fines. When the smoke clears, he will have a titanic contract from some new team which makes those fines a joke. We will have some face saving extra picks. Edwards will be on IR by week 6, JP by week 10. Oh, and we will have sent a message to rookies that they better hold out for a great initial first deal since they can't count on an extension if they make the pro bowl and veteran free agents will not bother booking a visit to western NY come February. The team will have proven that they are as tough in the negotiation room as the team is weak on the field.

 

You do not make a team better by losing its best players.

Didn't JP play a couple of years before JP was moved to LT? I don't recall him ever being on IR. Didn't Trent play a few games last year without Peters at LT? I don't recall him getting a season ending injury.

 

Point? Yes, Peters is a good LT, but the entire offense doesn't completely fall apart without him.

 

He hasn't chosen any route. He asked for a new deal and the team told him no. He said to call back when and if they change their minds. It wasn't a choice between showing up and getting a new deal and not showing up. It was a choice between showing up and getting no new deal or holding out and hoping the team changes their mind resulting in a new deal. Option one had zero chance of resulting in a new deal and option two has at least a chance of resulting in a new deal. Holding out has worked out for many players, many of whom had just as little leverage as you think Peters has.

We all assume this is what happened. But, to be fair, there's been zero confirmation in the media as to the content of any conversations Parker and Brandon had regarding Peters contract. Just as it's likely the team told Peters to shut up and play; it's also possible that Brandon offered Peters a new deal worth $7-8 million a year and Peters turned it down.

 

Actually, he came to Buffalo after the surgery to be checked out by the team. So much for that point.

...

Can you please provide s a link to that article? I don't recall ever reading that Peters came in and got checked out after his surgery. I seem to recall reading that the team has had no contact with him since he had his surgery in mid Jan. But I don't recall the part about him getting checked out by the team.

[Nanker]

I'm thinking that every day longer he continues to hold out is proof that his 9 on the Wonderlic wasn't a fluke.

[Mickey]

He just waltzes in without any stigma attached? No damage to his reputation. His teammates are entirely forgiving. The brass pats him on the back even though his actions were a major disruption and his lack of loyalty, astounding. He doesn't look the biggest fool ever?

 

He's rolled the dice looking for a Bills cave-in. He doesn't get it, all the other results are bad for him.

What makes you think there is a stigma associated with a hold out? I am not sure why he would care if Russ Brandon pats him on the back. As long he pancakes DE's, I am pretty certain he will still be allowed to play in all the reindeer games. Have you heard a single solitary quote from any player on the team that they have a problem with him? Every guy in that locker room has at some point had to try and negotiate a good deal for themselves. They have all been in his shoes. Whitner held out. Lynch held out. McCargo held out.

 

Lack of loyalty??????????? You are not serious are you? If the team thought it was in its best interests to lie to a player and then drop him like a bad habit from the roster, they would do so in a heartbeat. Just ask Craig Nall about that, or JP even. This isn't a scout troop and it isn't high school. We aren't electing a prom queen at the homecoming game. No one is trying to win one for the gipper. Mitchell won a ring with the Giants last year and then signed with the team that paid him the most money which was us.

 

Teams have no loyalty to players and when push comes to shove, they have no loyalty to the team. There isn't a guy in that locker room who wouldn't jump to another team if given the chance to do so as long as it was for more money then the Bills are paying them.

 

I'd bet the house that the players don't blame Jason Peters for his absence, they blame Russ Brandon, if they blame anyone at all. They are big boys who understand that this is a business first.

[Mickey]

Didn't JP play a couple of years before JP was moved to LT? I don't recall him ever being on IR. Didn't Trent play a few games last year without Peters at LT? I don't recall him getting a season ending injury.

 

Point? Yes, Peters is a good LT, but the entire offense doesn't completely fall apart without him.

 

 

We all assume this is what happened. But, to be fair, there's been zero confirmation in the media as to the content of any conversations Parker and Brandon had regarding Peters contract. Just as it's likely the team told Peters to shut up and play; it's also possible that Brandon offered Peters a new deal worth $7-8 million a year and Peters turned it down.

 

 

Can you please provide s a link to that article? I don't recall ever reading that Peters came in and got checked out after his surgery. I seem to recall reading that the team has had no contact with him since he had his surgery in mid Jan. But I don't recall the part about him getting checked out by the team.

Nothing personal but I am getting sick and tired of digging up these links every other day. Search my prior posts if you don't believe me. Essentially, Brandon was talking about the last time he actually saw Peters and he said it was after his surgery when he was in town getting checked out by the team doctors.

 

The team itself has not been shy about slamming Peters in public so I am sure that if they had a concern about his health, we would have heard about it. The only place that is being metioned as justification for flatly refusing to give him a new deal this year is around here.

 

Okay, one more time, just this once and only because its you: Links dealing with Peters

 

It would be possible that he turned down an offer but then Brandon has publicly stated that they expect him to play under his current contract this year. Brandon hasn't been reluctant to mouth off in public about Peters and it would help his argument if in fact they made him a solid offer and he turned them down so there would be no need to keep that secret. He would have tossed that in along with all that track record of silence stuff.

 

The whole offense doesn't turn around Peters, I would agree. However, he is the best player on this line, he is among the best at his position in the entire league and as good as he is, he is going to get even better. I guarantee there is not a team in the league that wouldn't be elated to have the chance to make him the highest paid LT in the league. At present, there are stiffs all around the league making twice what he makes.

 

We got an all pro year out of Peters at a bargain basement price. Now the team wants to get yet another all pro year out of him for a relative pittance. Yet no one sees that as being greedy. No, all you hear around here is that Peters is a greedy "peckerhead".

 

Pennywise and pound foolish.

[The Senator]

We have not argued any such absurd thing. All we have said is to do for Peters what they already did for Schobel who was made the highest paid player in team history with one NEW deal and then got an even better NEW,NEW deal just a year or two later when he still had 3 years left on his existing contract.

 

Perhaps you could post links to all your prior posts lambasting Schobel as a peckerhead for doing exactly what Peters is doing now? Or are you just going to point out that Aaron parts his hair on the left and Jason wears a crew cut hence the situations are justifiably different?

You can find those posts yourself - they're right there with all the news reports about Schobel's 4-week holdout, skipping all the OTAs, and cutting off all contact with the front office.

 

I get that you're on a crusade here. We all do. Parker's an idiot to try this with Wilson. Peters is an idiot for listening to Parker. He'd probably have his new contract, or at least they'd be working on it, if he hadn't pulled this bullschitt. Now, chump is SOL - Ralph & Co. will dig their heels in and make their own point. I'm sure Ralph is thinking, "Hey you wanna play hardball? Great - let me take you to school and show ya how it's done!"

 

Way to go, Parker/Peters!

 

Chumps!

[Sisyphean Bills]

You can find those posts yourself - they're right there with all the news reports about Schobel's 4-week holdout, skipping all the OTAs, and cutting off all contact with the front office.

 

I get that you're on a crusade here. We all do. Parker's an idiot to try this with Wilson. Peters is an idiot for listening to Parker. He'd probably have his new contract, or at least they'd be working on it, if he hadn't pulled this bullschitt. Now, chump is SOL - Ralph & Co. will dig their heels in and make their own point. I'm sure Ralph is thinking, "Hey you wanna play hardball? Great - let me take you to school and show ya how it's done!"

 

Way to go, Parker/Peters!

 

Chumps!

Actually, you glance off an interesting thought. Ralph may actually be much more involved in these things than he has been in a very long time. With Littmann by his side and the front office by committee structure maybe the Bills are trying to re-establish their reputation as hardazzed negotiators and skinflints.

[The Senator]

Actually, you glance off an interesting thought. Ralph may actually be much more involved in these things than he has been in a very long time. With Littmann by his side and the front office by committee structure maybe the Bills are trying to re-establish their reputation as hardazzed negotiators and skinflints.

They sure showed those exact proclivities with Dockery & Walker now, didn't they?

[Sisyphean Bills]

They sure showed those exact proclivities with Dockery & Walker now, didn't they?

I forgot that Marv Levy had quit before they signed those guys and wasn't the GM the past 2 seasons. Thanks for reminding me though!

[The Senator]

I forgot that Marv Levy had quit before they signed those guys and wasn't the GM the past 2 seasons. Thanks for reminding me though!

No problem. I forgot that Ralph didn't own the team then.