Captain Hindsight Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Actually, if you get a chance to go back and watch it you'lll see he abandonded his gap and just happened to be lucky enough to make the play. It was virtually a total lack of discipline- it's difficult to give him high marks for breaking the defense. More often than not, the result of losing your discipline like that ends up in 6 points. I am hoping that he lives up to his draft position this year, but at this point in time his inability to break into the starting rotation at DT hardly supports any great confidence in that happening. There is the counter argument that we want a strong A and B interior rotation, but if you have a game-changer, you want him to be on the A team. So far there is no indication that our staff sees JM being a game-changer this season. Good thing you knew his assignment on that play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Once upon a time, a guy named Rob Johnson was ranked #1 on a list similar to this, in July. Let's see what he does when the lights are on. From the tone of your posts, methinks you're rooting for him to fail. Enjoy the season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 way to read - four 3-technique guys and ZERO nose tackles. good thing we were strong against the run last year Take a look at the Tampa-2 teams. None have a guy who weighs more than 310#. The point being that Stroud is a great player, no matter what weight, and if he stays healthy, will improve the DL a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Good thing you knew his assignment on that play And as a result of blowing his assignment, AKC now considers McCargo a scumbag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 From the tone of your posts, methinks you're rooting for him to fail. Enjoy the season! If the "tone" you're referring to is stating the facts, then I'm guilty as charged. McCargo has yet to fulfill his first round draft status... he has a great opportunity this season after some bad luck injuries and I look forward to seeing what he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Take a look at the Tampa-2 teams. None have a guy who weighs more than 310#. The point being that Stroud is a great player, no matter what weight, and if he stays healthy, will improve the DL a lot. Stroud was very productive when playing next to the beastly John Henderson. He was able to shoot the gaps. Now that Kyle Williams is a gap shooter as well, the Bills have no "nose tackles".All the double teams that Henderson drew will now be focused on Stroud. We will see how his bad ankles hold up . The original point was that the basic philosophy of the defense has been changed in year 3 from a nose tackle / 3 technique combo to "everyone's a gap shooter". If this was the preferred package, why waste 2 years with the former philosophy? Maybe the LBs are better now - let's hope so because they will be seeing a lot plays in the middle where they will need to make a lot of tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Maybe the LBs are better now - let's hope so because they will be seeing a lot plays in the middle where they will need to make a lot of tackles. Poz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Stroud was very productive when playing next to the beastly John Henderson. He was able to shoot the gaps. Now that Kyle Williams is a gap shooter as well, the Bills have no "nose tackles".All the double teams that Henderson drew will now be focused on Stroud. We will see how his bad ankles hold up . The original point was that the basic philosophy of the defense has been changed in year 3 from a nose tackle / 3 technique combo to "everyone's a gap shooter". If this was the preferred package, why waste 2 years with the former philosophy? Maybe the LBs are better now - let's hope so because they will be seeing a lot plays in the middle where they will need to make a lot of tackles. You need the right personal to run a defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Stroud was very productive when playing next to the beastly John Henderson. He was able to shoot the gaps. Now that Kyle Williams is a gap shooter as well, the Bills have no "nose tackles".All the double teams that Henderson drew will now be focused on Stroud. We will see how his bad ankles hold up . The original point was that the basic philosophy of the defense has been changed in year 3 from a nose tackle / 3 technique combo to "everyone's a gap shooter". If this was the preferred package, why waste 2 years with the former philosophy? Maybe the LBs are better now - let's hope so because they will be seeing a lot plays in the middle where they will need to make a lot of tackles. There will be no designation of NT because all 4 DT's are able to play 1- and 3-tech, and will switch-off so as to confuse the opposing OL. Both DT's will not be shooting the gaps. With the strict assignment of a nose tackle and three technique tackle no longer a part of Buffalo's defensive scheme, the two tackles will alternate those roles based on the pre-snap call and the alignment of the opposing offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 You need the right personal to run a defense so why did they run the defense for the last 2 years when they clearly did not have the right DL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Good thing you knew his assignment on that play Defensive linemen don't concede or abandon gaps or run stunts in the interior of goal line formations, under any circumstances, in any defense, in any era. I recognize that's way over your head to grasp, so instead of waiting for your Gump-like response, I'll save you the trouble- "Yeah, but where did you buy your Bill's playbook?!" I swear the collective level of intelligence on this board has fallen more in the past year than during the balance of the period since TSW was initially published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Defensive linemen don't concede or abandon gaps or run stunts in the interior of goal line formations, under any circumstances, in any defense, in any era. I recognize that's way over your head to grasp, so instead of waiting for your Gump-like response, I'll save you the trouble- "Yeah, but where did you buy your Bill's playbook?!" I swear the collective level of intelligence on this board has fallen more in the past year than during the balance of the period since TSW was initially published. probably because the average age of the poster is now about 12 older posters also act like their 12 with their childish rants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 probably because the average age of the poster is now about 12 older posters also act like their 12 with their childish rants Oh, the irony. Well at least most of them would know it's "they're 12" and not "their 12." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Oh and BTW obie wan, the Fins are counting on the 33-year old and 312# Jason Ferguson to play NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 IMO, if it isn't J-Mac, drag out the 'bust' label. Personally, I think it will be him but the competition is great! For the first time in a long while, DL is a team plus! No way. If he is productive he is fine.......a lot of pencil pushing so-called experts labeled Dan Wilkinson a bust. Those people are typical fantasy football players who know nothing about football. The guy played more than a decade and teams still wanted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Actually, McCargo didn't play nearly any of his rookie season due to a foot injury. That injury was healed last year, and thus he was finally able to get time on the field. When he did get time on the field last year, it was productive. His play improved as the year went on, and for what was essentially his rookie season to total the best TFL numbers on the team, the best solo tackle/tackle ratio and have the second highest sack total on the team for the limited time he actually played seems to make your argument look foolish. I think that by the end of pre-season, McCargo will be solidly entrenched as the starter next to Stroud. Johnson will be rotating in to give Stroud a rest and Williams will come in for McCargo at the three where he will also likely be more effective. McCargo was for all intents and purposes a rookie last season and he looked good for a rookie. This is his year. The guy was a beast in college and I expect to see that same kind of production out of him this year based on his performance. Most of the people who watch this stuff for a living and write about it agree that he really came on at the end of the season. I trust my eyes, and theirs before the negative nancies that reside on this board. He played well when he had opportunities last season, and most agree he is really improving. McCargo couldn't break the starting lineup in his second season. Rotational player or not, two guys generally get the majority of the PT. Barring an injury, Stroud and either McCargo or Spencer Johnson will complement him with Kyle Williams being the other depth player. If McCargo was the real deal, Buffalo would not have acquired Johnson. The fact is, McCargo needs to show up over the course of a full season as a starter before being acclaimed as a big time player. IMO, Spencer Johnson will play a similar role in this defense, and they didn't give him that fat contract to be a wave player at DT and work in at DE when Schobel, Kelsay, and Denney aren't in. There are a lot of feel-good Bills fans around here who latch onto anything which makes them feel happy. Anyone who doesn't believe all the hype from OBD are negative to them. I'd like McCargo to play like Warren Sapp, but if a guy isn't breaking the starting line up and the team acquires another similar type player, it's not all good. That, of course, does not fit very conveniently into this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 There are a lot of feel-good Bills fans around here who latch onto anything which makes them feel happy. Anyone who doesn't believe all the hype from OBD are negative to them. I'd like McCargo to play like Warren Sapp, but if a guy isn't breaking the starting line up and the team acquires another similar type player, it's not all good. That, of course, does not fit very conveniently into this discussion. The Bills picked up Marcus Stroud (last great season in 2004) and a backup DT rumored to be a "Sack Specialist"; never mind that he hasn't had a single sack since the first month of the 2007 season. It's like we signed Isaac Bruce and Marty Booker in Free Agency and some of our fan base has decided we're now among the elite in the league at WR. The problem with their fantasy (outside of the question mark Stroud's health represents) is that we were so thin at DT last year that we eneded up the #31 defense in the league, with anyone and everyone running down our throat when they needed to. Most fans have their heads so far up QBs and WRs butts that they don't recognize the smart front offices are using far more early draft equity at DT than the losers of the league like the Bills. If you want to beat West Coast influenced offenses, you must have superior talent at DT, and a bevy of it, to disrupt the short passing game. We can't claim to have even one single superior talent at DT entering the season. But here we go again- the fan base all atwitter at how James "The Pistol" Harvey will make us deadly in the Red Zone, while the smartest football teams put a greater focus on their Defense, and very specifically their DLine, to get to the big game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Oh and BTW obie wan, the Fins are counting on the 33-year old and 312# Jason Ferguson to play NT. good point. Parcells wants to play a 3-4. So he goes out and gets the personnel so he can run a 3-4. The current regime has been trying to run 4-3 with 1 DT playing on the nose. 3 years later we still don;t have a DT capable of playing on the nose, so we are going to change our philosophy to play a 4-3 where all the DTS shoot the gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStranger76 Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 After reading the "nose-tackle weight argument" in this thread, do any of you honestly think Marcus Stroud weighs 310 lbs.???? I mean seriously, whether he plays the nose or 3 technique, his weight being too light won't be the issue, because he is somewhere between 330 and 350 lbs. As for the "Stroud being the benificiary of Henderson argument", that one's a load of crap as well. They complimented each other equally, with Stroud being rewarded the Pro Bowls. The only issue here is his ankle, which, if healed, gives us a great addition to our D-line. End of story. With Stroud, McCargo and Williams all taking snaps at the nose, we should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 good point. Parcells wants to play a 3-4. So he goes out and gets the personnel so he can run a 3-4. The current regime has been trying to run 4-3 with 1 DT playing on the nose. 3 years later we still don;t have a DT capable of playing on the nose, so we are going to change our philosophy to play a 4-3 where all the DTS shoot the gaps. He went out and got Jason Ferguson, who as I said is 33, coming off an injury, and who weighs just 312#, to play in the 3-4. The rest of the guys, outside of Porter, whose best days are well behind him, have never played in a 3-4 in their NFL careers, including new additions Reggie Torbor and Randy Starks. So if you want to get hung-up on Stroud allegedly being too small at 310# (yeah) to play NT, go right ahead. It won't make it any more correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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