Buftex Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Hate him or not, I am glad that Moore has the stones, and cares enough, to take on the big guys. Somebody has to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Let see, It's going to be about insulin because he is about an inch away from diabetes and about beta blockers because he is also close to a heart attack. Put down the burrito mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede316 Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Mike needs to die from such a bad disease..think of all the peeps he will save in his last moments...he wanted the spotlight..reap the whirlwind fatso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUBillsFan Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Hate him or not, I am glad that Moore has the stones, and cares enough, to take on the big guys. Somebody has to! 71987[/snapback] He is the big guys now...He is about making money for himself that's it. I didn't see him lowering ticket prices to f911 just to get people to see it. He is just like most rich people they are just trying to get richer, nothing wrong with that IMHO, unless you pretend you are doing for the good of the world. I wonder if he will do a film on trial lawyers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Moore has offered to allow Sinclair Broadcasting, who has ordered its stations to air an anti-Kerry show, to broadcast Farenheit 9/11 for free, which will allow them to prove that they are as objective as they claim to be. You can't get the price much lower than free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUBillsFan Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Moore has offered to allow Sinclair Broadcasting, who has ordered its stations to air an anti-Kerry show, to broadcast Farenheit 9/11 for free, which will allow them to prove that they are as objective as they claim to be. You can't get the price much lower than free. 72203[/snapback] Ok You're right M M is not about money the $100,000,000 he made was just a tiny little amount. I just think he is just as greedy as most people actually more so for someone that WAS against capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alg Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 I for one am glad he is doing it. In spite of his left wing politics MM has indeed done a service in going after corporate looters. Unfortunately I cannot imagine MM attacking the real threat to American health care - the greed and manipulation that has sold us a bill of goods. The lie that more and more drugs are actually making us healthy. When the drug industry pitches their drugs for outragious profits - drugs that may have meager statistical positives over placebo's, what they fail to answer for is the overall physical polution and stunting of natural healing capabilities in the human body. I believe that - someday - real medicine will acknowlege that decease is systemic, and that the vast majority of drugs, when used for any reason beyond last hope, serve to do little else then poison the takers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 get out you tinfoil hat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 17, 2004 Author Share Posted October 17, 2004 Let see, It's going to be about insulin because he is about an inch away from diabetes and about beta blockers because he is also close to a heart attack. Put down the burrito mike. 71996[/snapback] I guess kind of the respose I was expecting from your ilk! :I starred in Brokeback Mountain: Why does MM scare you so much? Are you a corporate fat cat? Have you seen any of his movies? Seen "Roger & Me"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 17, 2004 Author Share Posted October 17, 2004 Ok You're right M M is not about money the $100,000,000 he made was just a tiny little amount. I just think he is just as greedy as most people actually more so for someone that WAS against capitalism. 72208[/snapback] IU you should do a little research before posting this drivel! Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that is what we do here. Much of the money that Moore has made has gone toward funding other independant film projects, and toward social causes that Moore has championed. I am sure he has pocketed a few bucks, but it is not like he hasn't earned it. You might not always like his message (if you know what it is) but his heart is in the right place. The unifying theme in all of his films is that corporate America and our government are becoming interchangable, and that we should all be very concerned about what it is doing to our way of life. If your feelings are hurt that he is not a cheerleader for president Bush, rest assured, he has been very critical of Bill Clintons' administrastion as well. By the way,when/where did Michael Moore say he was against capitalism? I think he is against some of the results of irresponsible capitalist pursuits have had on American lives, but I have never heard or read anything where he says he is against capitalism..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alg Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 get out you tinfoil hat! 72510[/snapback] Im actually pretty conservative, but personal experience and research have led me in an entirely new direction. 3 times in 2003 (just in my family) drugs either exacerbated a problem or actually caused it. Alternative, non-wacka healing thru herbs and diet, and the elimination of pills in all 3 cases solved the problems. The doctor's refused to acknowledge the connection, but their own research showed that their drug regimens were not effective. Point in fact, some were actually no more effective then placebo. This from their own medical journals. So on the surface it looks like I do indeed wear a tinfoil hat, but the reality is that the medical community has been undermined and lied to by the drug companies, and wined and dined to pimp their pills. (I have docs in my family and know how it works.) I was correct in 100% of the cases (3) that my family faced, and historically I have had very poor results from the establishment for anything that was not easily diagnosed and corrected. Why is it that every friggin drug we see on TV these days (that can supposedly only help a condition by 10-25%) say that patients with liver issues should not take their pills? Because drugs are toxic to the human system outside of the small window they are intended for. They invariably put stress on the body's cleansing/elimination systems, and make us more susceptible to even larger problems. Case in point, our vet gave our cat a drug to help a skin irritation. The poor guy got a UTI and was left borderline diabetic. I took him off all meds, refused to let them treat him with more antibiotics, and returned him to better then normal health within 3 months using herbs and diet. If I had left him in the hands of the veterinary establishment, he may very well be getting insulin injections every day, or worst - be dead. BTW, the drug in question actually listed one side effect as diabetes. To cure a skin problem? One that turns out to be nothing more then an allergic reaction to flee bits? I have other, more personal stories, but they had the same results - both cause and cure. This goes on all the time, and more then likely effects someone in your immediate family. I do not want to play doctor, I have a job, but I will be damned if I sit back and let societal expectations and prejudices stand between me and my families health - including the cats. We have been sold a bill of goods, and the good that comes from the drug industry has been buried beneath a horrendous record of abuse. I know, they spend billions to find cures and aids to various conditions. What they don't tell you is that it costs this much so they can extract a patent from cures and aids already existing in nature. You see, there is no money in cures if they can't get a patent, and they cannot get a patent for something that grows freely in nature. Its about profit, people, and it is getting worst all the time. Anyone read the story of the hired 'researcher" forced to help cross-sell drugs for other conditions? That actually led to severe depresion and suicide? Yeah, I wear a tinfoil hat, and if your lucky and figure it out before a terrible incident, you will too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 The lie that more and more drugs are actually making us healthy. When the drug industry pitches their drugs for outragious profits - drugs that may have meager statistical positives over placebo's, what they fail to answer for is the overall physical polution and stunting of natural healing capabilities in the human body. 72225[/snapback] Well you've painted that with a very broad brush. So drugs that reduce cholesterol by 50%, lower blood pressure or reduce the halucinations of schizophrenia are worthless? There are plenty of drugs that extend life and improve the quality of life. What about chemotherapy? Worthless? I have my own personal experiences to draw from, including my wife's battle with breast cancer, which she has won...and my high blood pressure, which is being treated very nicely. Sure the drug companies make profits, that's what they are in business for. What company would exist if they didn't make profits? Do you know what the budgets are for research? My company spends $7.9 billion a year. Do you know how long it takes to develop a drug? More than 10 years from discovery to the market. You want to talk about prices? Have you heard that pharmacies mark up the prices of some generic drugs up to 2000%? Not one penny of that goes to the drug companies. I work for a large drug company, doing research in psychotherapeutics. I hope that what I do can make a breakthrough to better treat people who are suffering from debilitating diseases, not line my own pockets. It's an incredibly difficult job, with more failures than advances. The people who do the research really want to help and most feel this is a noble endeavor. But unfortunately, more often we are treated as if we're big tobacco...and in my opinion, that's just sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Do you know what the budgets are for research? My company spends more than 500 million a year. 72553[/snapback] That will buy a lot of Zima & Judy Garland figurines. Drug companies, bad. Let's go back to the good old days of two aspirins and a doctor call in the mornings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 That will buy a lot of Zima & Judy Garland figurines. Drug companies, bad. Let's go back to the good old days of two aspirins and a doctor call in the mornings. 72560[/snapback] You know...I was way off...it's $7.9 billion! I've edited my original post...I warped back to the days when I first started there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Im actually pretty conservative, but personal experience and research have led me in an entirely new direction. 3 times in 2003 (just in my family) drugs either exacerbated a problem or actually caused it. Alternative, non-wacka healing thru herbs and diet, and the elimination of pills in all 3 cases solved the problems. The doctor's refused to acknowledge the connection, but their own research showed that their drug regimens were not effective. Point in fact, some were actually no more effective then placebo. This from their own medical journals. So on the surface it looks like I do indeed wear a tinfoil hat, but the reality is that the medical community has been undermined and lied to by the drug companies, and wined and dined to pimp their pills. (I have docs in my family and know how it works.) I was correct in 100% of the cases (3) that my family faced, and historically I have had very poor results from the establishment for anything that was not easily diagnosed and corrected. 72518[/snapback] And if you find research that shows the drug didn't work, you shouldn't continue taking the drug. Remedies are better than they ever were, but they don't have the same effect for everyone. The Vioxx situation is very important to see where the situation goes. It was prescribed to a lot of people for whom it wasn't intended. Now you have a set of patients for whom Vioxx was the only option, who won't get it. You can blame the drug companies, but it's the doctors that write the prescriptions. They'e not lied to, they just don't do their own research to see if a new drug is any better than existing remedies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 I found out in June I had extremely high blood pressure (180/110!). The doctor gave me some medicine. It didn't go down, so after a few days, he switched it. Within 6 hours after taking the first pill, my bp was down to 125/85. Without the pills I might have already had a stroke, heart attack or died. Yes, I am also losing weight (36 lbs in 4 months). The reason the first pill didn't work may have been that the uderlying biochemical reason my bp wsa so high wsa not addressed by the first drug, while the second was the correct. It way also be due to my genetic makeup. A lot of drugs become active after passing through the liver where enzymes that normally detoxify substances, alter the drug into an active form. People have various mutations in these genes. The proble with these herbs, etc. is that they are not tested for side effects, the amountof any active ingredient (if any) in the pills containing these herbs varies widely, and the manufacturing process is not tightly regulated, so contamination is not uncommon. The FDA system is the best in the world and has screened out some very dangerous drugs (thallidomide) and prevents people from wasting money on useless medicines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 I guess kind of the respose I was expecting from your ilk! :I starred in Brokeback Mountain: Why does MM scare you so much? Are you a corporate fat cat? Have you seen any of his movies? Seen "Roger & Me"? 72513[/snapback] Allow me to take the middle ground here. I did see Roger and Me. It was great, and should serve as a reminder to all just how bad a company will screw it's workers and even an entire city in some instances (No, not ALL companies). Now, he is nothing but a limosine liberal and an elitist. He spoke at the college that my daughter attends and took questions after the speech. He ignored all questions from conservative. students. My daughter asked him a question. His answer was "Next." Because her school is in New Hampshire, she has spoken to numerous candidates, including Edwards and Dean on many occasions. She claimed that they were courteous and respectful. Moore otoh, is a rude pig who runs when cornered, just like "Roger" did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaInPhilly Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Well you've painted that with a very broad brush. So drugs that reduce cholesterol by 50%, lower blood pressure or reduce the halucinations of schizophrenia are worthless? There are plenty of drugs that extend life and improve the quality of life. What about chemotherapy? Worthless? I have my own personal experiences to draw from, including my wife's battle with breast cancer, which she has won...and my high blood pressure, which is being treated very nicely. Sure the drug companies make profits, that's what they are in business for. What company would exist if they didn't make profits? Do you know what the budgets are for research? My company spends $7.9 billion a year. Do you know how long it takes to develop a drug? More than 10 years from discovery to the market. You want to talk about prices? Have you heard that pharmacies mark up the prices of some generic drugs up to 2000%? Not one penny of that goes to the drug companies. I work for a large drug company, doing research in psychotherapeutics. I hope that what I do can make a breakthrough to better treat people who are suffering from debilitating diseases, not line my own pockets. It's an incredibly difficult job, with more failures than advances. The people who do the research really want to help and most feel this is a noble endeavor. But unfortunately, more often we are treated as if we're big tobacco...and in my opinion, that's just sad. 72553[/snapback] You have some good points there, NG. My son has ADHD. Without his Adderall he would be out of control. He still is a handful, but his meds take the edge off. Anyone who thinks ADHD is a "fake" disease needs to spend the day with an unmedicated 13 year old with this disorder, and they'll change their mind fast! I am grateful to researchers such as yourself who spent countless frustrating hours developing these drugs, which have changed many lives for the better. On the other hand, sometimes natural remedies work as well as conventional drug therapies. Being of a "certain age," I am experiencing hot flashes, etc. -- not fun. My doc wanted to put me on estrogen therapy, which I was very reluctant to try. I read a book about natural remedies for menopausal symptoms, and tried changes in my diet (including soy products) and some herbal supplements, and my symptoms decreased dramatically. Also, my dad is a pharmacist (retired) and so is my sister (she works in S. Jersey). I was going to be one too, until I flunked out of The Dreaded Organic Chemistry. Don't B word at the pharmacists about drug prices, especially those who work in the large drugstore chains, because they don't have any control over setting them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 17, 2004 Share Posted October 17, 2004 Allow me to take the middle ground here. I did see Roger and Me. It was great, and should serve as a reminder to all just how bad a company will screw it's workers and even an entire city in some instances (No, not ALL companies). Now, he is nothing but a limosine liberal and an elitist. He spoke at the college that my daughter attends and took questions after the speech. He ignored all questions from conservative. students. My daughter asked him a question. His answer was "Next." Because her school is in New Hampshire, she has spoken to numerous candidates, including Edwards and Dean on many occasions. She claimed that they were corteous and respectful. Moore otoh, is a rude pig who runs when cornered, just like "Roger" did. 72668[/snapback] Just curious Bill, what question did your daughter ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 17, 2004 Author Share Posted October 17, 2004 Allow me to take the middle ground here. I did see Roger and Me. It was great, and should serve as a reminder to all just how bad a company will screw it's workers and even an entire city in some instances (No, not ALL companies). Now, he is nothing but a limosine liberal and an elitist. He spoke at the college that my daughter attends and took questions after the speech. He ignored all questions from conservative. students. My daughter asked him a question. His answer was "Next." Because her school is in New Hampshire, she has spoken to numerous candidates, including Edwards and Dean on many occasions. She claimed that they were corteous and respectful. Moore otoh, is a rude pig who runs when cornered, just like "Roger" did. 72668[/snapback] Firstly, Moore has spoken here in Ausitn, TX twice over the last two years, and the experince here was much different than what you describe. At both events, there were Moore detractors who spoke out, and in both instances, he addressed them respectufully. Secondly, Moore is not a politician, like Edwards or Dean. He is not trying to win anyone's votes. He is very much an activist who trys to get across points. Not unike our president, he is not an eloquent speaker, and is not the best at thinking on his feet. He is the first to admit that. Just like president Bush's supporters might argue, the fact that he is not the best "performer" does not diminish the importance of his message. People here who say that Moore hates America, and is anti-American are just plain un-informed. Seems like your "middle ground" needs some reconsideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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