If we take a CB at #11

[ans4e64]

I almost don't want them to take a corner, not because I don't think we need one, but because I don't want to put up with the year's worth of bitching on this board.

 

Anyway, if we do take a corner at 11, all of you who will cry about it need to realize that the coaches and front office know what our scheme calls for, and what they plan to do on defense, way better than any of us armchair quarterbacks. So don't tell us (Pyrite Gal) that its a waste if we do take a corner "because our system doesn't need good corners." That's all I'm going to say... they know what we need for the system they design and run, so have faith, and keep the bitching to a minimum.

[mead107]

I hope they do not take a corner .

 

It is never a waste . I do trust the people at 1 Bills Drive to make a goood pick this year .

[SouthTownBills51]

Im thinkin if we stay at 11 it'll be a corner..and if we trade down its for a reciever first. Just my opinion.

[Fewell733]

Im thinkin if we stay at 11 it'll be a corner..and if we trade down its for a reciever first. Just my opinion.

 

I think you're right - unless somebody falls out of the top-10 that wasn't expected to - like Sedrick Ellis (you never know)

[UpstateSwagger]

I almost don't want them to take a corner, not because I don't think we need one, but because I don't want to put up with the year's worth of bitching on this board.

 

Anyway, if we do take a corner at 11, all of you who will cry about it need to realize that the coaches and front office know what our scheme calls for, and what they plan to do on defense, way better than any of us armchair quarterbacks. So don't tell us (Pyrite Gal) that its a waste if we do take a corner "because our system doesn't need good corners." That's all I'm going to say... they know what we need for the system they design and run, so have faith, and keep the bitching to a minimum.

 

What?!? You don't like seeing those 1500 word expose's on the nuiances of the the Cover 2 defense and why its retarded to have capable cornerbacks playing in it?

[deep2evans]

I almost don't want them to take a corner, not because I don't think we need one, but because I don't want to put up with the year's worth of bitching on this board.

 

Anyway, if we do take a corner at 11, all of you who will cry about it need to realize that the coaches and front office know what our scheme calls for, and what they plan to do on defense, way better than any of us armchair quarterbacks. So don't tell us (Pyrite Gal) that its a waste if we do take a corner "because our system doesn't need good corners." That's all I'm going to say... they know what we need for the system they design and run, so have faith, and keep the bitching to a minimum.

 

Very true, the coaching staff obviously knows who will work best in their system, and it's up to the fans to have a little faith. They have done a great job in the last 3 years of putting the pieces in place.

[BeastMode54]

Is it just me, or am I the only one who thinks if Will James stays healthy that he could be the perfect #2 corner we need

[JStranger76]

I'm with you on that BeastMode54. I'd even put CB off til the 3rd round or even next year. There will be a veteran available somewhere before the season starts if we need to add one more guy. Add a DL and fix the O in this draft.

[ieatcrayonz]

So don't tell us (Pyrite Gal) that its a waste if we do take a corner "because our system doesn't need good corners."

 

You do know that Bill in NYC complains more about corners than anyone don't you?

 

Of course you do, but it is soooooooooo much easier to pick on a girl. Real nice.

 

[colin]

corners generally are the fastest return producing high picks.

 

if we get the a top 2 or perhaps even 3 corner we might have a guy to slow down moss. that could give us some room to get to brady and be creative w the blitz.

 

drc or someone like that (even a couple of the wrs) could also be kick return guys. having mcgee and the other one back there (along w parrish on punts) might end up breaking open a couple games.

[obie_wan]

I almost don't want them to take a corner, not because I don't think we need one, but because I don't want to put up with the year's worth of bitching on this board.

 

Anyway, if we do take a corner at 11, all of you who will cry about it need to realize that the coaches and front office know what our scheme calls for, and what they plan to do on defense, way better than any of us armchair quarterbacks. So don't tell us (Pyrite Gal) that its a waste if we do take a corner "because our system doesn't need good corners." That's all I'm going to say... they know what we need for the system they design and run, so have faith, and keep the bitching to a minimum.

 

you are correct!

 

The Bills illustrious front office should not be questioned since they have produced such stellar playoff success with their previous selections and decisions.

 

Excuse me while I continue to believe that building strong OL and defensive front 7 is far more critical to consistent winning than reaching for tall WRs and one year wonders for positions that can be filled adequately in lower rounds or from free agency.

[Ramius]

you are correct!

 

The Bills illustrious front office should not be questioned since they have produced such stellar playoff success with their previous selections and decisions.

 

Excuse me while I continue to believe that building strong OL and defensive front 7 is far more critical to consistent winning than reaching for tall WRs and one year wonders for positions that can be filled adequately in lower rounds or from free agency.

 

Funny, because i thought the bills brought in 3 players along the defensive front 7 already this offseason. But those move obviously dont matter, because spending a 1st round pick is the only way to improve.

[Pyrite Gal]

I almost don't want them to take a corner, not because I don't think we need one, but because I don't want to put up with the year's worth of bitching on this board.

 

Anyway, if we do take a corner at 11, all of you who will cry about it need to realize that the coaches and front office know what our scheme calls for, and what they plan to do on defense, way better than any of us armchair quarterbacks. So don't tell us (Pyrite Gal) that its a waste if we do take a corner "because our system doesn't need good corners." That's all I'm going to say... they know what we need for the system they design and run, so have faith, and keep the bitching to a minimum.

Its not at all that I think a pick of a CB means that the Bills staff does not know what it is doing (they have forgotten more than I remember about football), its that I think a CB pick would indicate that the Bills plans are aimed more directly at 2009 rather than 2008 as I see a pick of DRC or any CB as providing a marginal return for us this year.

 

I argue not that a CB pick is a bad player (by definition the Bills 1st round choice will be someone they think is a good player and in the last two years both Whitner and Lynch are potential Pro Bowl level 1st picks. Even better, the Bills have gotten outstanding depth from their later picks in the last two drafts.

 

What I do argue is that:

 

1. Improving the pass pro is a priority for this team and paradoxically in terms of conventional CB use, improvement at CB would do less for improving out pass pro than improving the DL play or even improving the receiving so we avoid 3 and outs.

 

2. Again paradoxically, the best thing we could do for the productivity of our pass D is actually improve the ability of this team to get 1s downs and simply stop the opposing offense by keeping them off the field.

 

3. The though some seem to have that our opponents loading up on the Moss/Welker types means we need to take the best CB needs believing in the foolish thought that any of the rookie CBs are going to be able to shutdown NFL vets like Welker/Moss. Do you really think DRC is that good? I do not. He is pretty clearly to me the best of the CBs out there but as I define an elite player as one good enough to demand a top 10 pick, if he is still there at #11 then by the definition I use he is not an elite player even though he is the best of the CBs.

 

I will be disappointed if we take a CB not because I do not think he is good, but because I do not see even the best CB paying big benefits to us until 2009. On the other hand, if we could get a solid #2 WR (which I think we should be able to get even by trading down0, I think this team would improve it production even more quickly.

 

What's wrong with this thinking?

[ieatcrayonz]

What's wrong with this thinking?

Dom't let him bother you.

[Pyrite Gal]

Dom't let him bother you.

It's no bother. I am simply curious what his line of thinking is.

[ans4e64]

 

You do know that Bill in NYC complains more about corners than anyone don't you?

 

Of course you do, but it is soooooooooo much easier to pick on a girl. Real nice.

 

 

I like Pyrite Gal, one of the only posters on this board who puts thought and effort into their posts.

 

The reason why I said Pyrite Gal and not Bill, is because, while both don't advocate picking a corner high, they have a difference in their reasoning. Bill feels that drafting positions such as a DB, high, is not the way to go, and feels that top picks should be used on front seven picks, or lineman on either side of the ball. Pyrite Gal talks more knowledge of our defensive scheme when talking about why we shouldn't pick a corner. I disagree with Pyrite Gal because he/she discusses our system, what we play and when we play it, which IMO is completely wrong.

 

I wasn't picking on anyone, just wanted to post an idea I though Pyrite Gal should see, and I'm sorry if it seemed like I was calling someone out, I didn't intend for a bashing.

[ans4e64]

Its not at all that I think a pick of a CB means that the Bills staff does not know what it is doing (they have forgotten more than I remember about football), its that I think a CB pick would indicate that the Bills plans are aimed more directly at 2009 rather than 2008 as I see a pick of DRC or any CB as providing a marginal return for us this year.

 

I argue not that a CB pick is a bad player (by definition the Bills 1st round choice will be someone they think is a good player and in the last two years both Whitner and Lynch are potential Pro Bowl level 1st picks. Even better, the Bills have gotten outstanding depth from their later picks in the last two drafts.

 

What I do argue is that:

 

1. Improving the pass pro is a priority for this team and paradoxically in terms of conventional CB use, improvement at CB would do less for improving out pass pro than improving the DL play or even improving the receiving so we avoid 3 and outs.

 

2. Again paradoxically, the best thing we could do for the productivity of our pass D is actually improve the ability of this team to get 1s downs and simply stop the opposing offense by keeping them off the field.

 

3. The though some seem to have that our opponents loading up on the Moss/Welker types means we need to take the best CB needs believing in the foolish thought that any of the rookie CBs are going to be able to shutdown NFL vets like Welker/Moss. Do you really think DRC is that good? I do not. He is pretty clearly to me the best of the CBs out there but as I define an elite player as one good enough to demand a top 10 pick, if he is still there at #11 then by the definition I use he is not an elite player even though he is the best of the CBs.

 

I will be disappointed if we take a CB not because I do not think he is good, but because I do not see even the best CB paying big benefits to us until 2009. On the other hand, if we could get a solid #2 WR (which I think we should be able to get even by trading down0, I think this team would improve it production even more quickly.

 

What's wrong with this thinking?

 

Actually, I agree with you. Where we differ in opinion is the use of a corner in our defensive system, not your ideas stated above.

 

Numbers 1 and 2 of your reasoning depends upon a good/great WR being available when we pick at 11. I think the majority of people on this board would first like to see the WR position addressed, as you would, but since most feel there is no WR worthy of the eleventh pick, they move their choice to another position, and that is where the idea of drafting a corner comes into play.

 

I also think a WR is much more of a priority than drafting a corner. Hell, I also think TE is more of a priority as well, the problem is who and what is available at our pick. I think we first should try and trade down, so we can pick a WR. If that doesn't happen, we might have to go corner.

 

I also agree with you that DRC will not make a significant impact this year. He is a very, very talented player, but he needs work. I don't see that as a problem, however, because I think we have 3 pretty good corners in front if him in McGee, Greer, and James. Having DRC see some limited action starting off as the 4th corner, and then as the season wears on, work his way up, is not a bad thing.

 

I definitely see that as being a luxery pick, and would much rather trade down for a WR, but if that can't happen, a corner is a possibility. I think eventually, DRC could become a dominant player, even if its not in the first half of this season.

[Pyrite Gal]

Actually, I agree with you. Where we differ in opinion is the use of a corner in our defensive system, not your ideas stated above.

 

Numbers 1 and 2 of your reasoning depends upon a good/great WR being available when we pick at 11. I think the majority of people on this board would first like to see the WR position addressed, as you would, but since most feel there is no WR worthy of the eleventh pick, they move their choice to another position, and that is where the idea of drafting a corner comes into play.

 

I also think a WR is much more of a priority than drafting a corner. Hell, I also think TE is more of a priority as well, the problem is who and what is available at our pick. I think we first should try and trade down, so we can pick a WR. If that doesn't happen, we might have to go corner.

 

I also agree with you that DRC will not make a significant impact this year. He is a very, very talented player, but he needs work. I don't see that as a problem, however, because I think we have 3 pretty good corners in front if him in McGee, Greer, and James. Having DRC see some limited action starting off as the 4th corner, and then as the season wears on, work his way up, is not a bad thing.

 

I definitely see that as being a luxery pick, and would much rather trade down for a WR, but if that can't happen, a corner is a possibility. I think eventually, DRC could become a dominant player, even if its not in the first half of this season.

This opinion strikes me as a reasonable view, but it is not the one I took from your statement.

 

Its one thing to argue that we should take DRC because with the system we use he can provide us with the best value.

 

However, it is another thing to argue that DRC would provide us with the best value of any player likely available at #11 IF we actually run a different scheme which would put our players and DRC in a better position to win.

 

It seems to me you are arguing that you do not like the Cover 2 system. Fine, and you should say so. This comment ends up being pretty meaningless though in the real world of the Bills because like it or not this is a team which use our version of the Cover 2 as its base system.

 

One can choose to tilt at windmills and argue against the Cover 2 or one can accept the reality that Jauron/Fewell are only going to make marginal changes in our base D scheme and if they do DRC will be a disappointing choice for us to make.

 

This is true not because you can run a Cover 2 with bad CBs (you cannot) this is true because DRC's talents are best utilized in a more traditional D scheme. If we want to improve the real world production of our D against the pass the answer is to either improve the DL or improve the O performance so the D is not on the field to give up yards.

 

If one's answer is instead to emphasize more talented CB play one is doing little more than sticking your thumb in a crack in the dike.

[Pete]

I think if Leodis McKelvin is still available at 11- that is the pick. It is gonna be close- McKelvin will go around that pick. If he isn't there and if there are no reaches in the top 10- I have absolutely no idea what the Bills do. They can go so many directions- trade down, WR, CB, DE, DT, OL, LB. It will be interesting- I cannot wait!

[ans4e64]

This opinion strikes me as a reasonable view, but it is not the one I took from your statement.

 

Its one thing to argue that we should take DRC because with the system we use he can provide us with the best value.

 

However, it is another thing to argue that DRC would provide us with the best value of any player likely available at #11 IF we actually run a different scheme which would put our players and DRC in a better position to win.

 

It seems to me you are arguing that you do not like the Cover 2 system. Fine, and you should say so. This comment ends up being pretty meaningless though in the real world of the Bills because like it or not this is a team which use our version of the Cover 2 as its base system.

 

One can choose to tilt at windmills and argue against the Cover 2 or one can accept the reality that Jauron/Fewell are only going to make marginal changes in our base D scheme and if they do DRC will be a disappointing choice for us to make.

 

This is true not because you can run a Cover 2 with bad CBs (you cannot) this is true because DRC's talents are best utilized in a more traditional D scheme. If we want to improve the real world production of our D against the pass the answer is to either improve the DL or improve the O performance so the D is not on the field to give up yards.

 

If one's answer is instead to emphasize more talented CB play one is doing little more than sticking your thumb in a crack in the dike.

 

Okay... the reasoning behind my original post was... I know that you feel we don't need great corners, or to use picks on such, because of our defensive scheme. It has been argued by me, that we only use that scheme as our base defense, and our corners are still required to cover man to man in certain situations. Now, neither of us know what the Bills defensive system is, and what we call, so all I was saying originally was that if we do pick a corner 1st round, trust the Bills because they know our system, and they know what is required of the players.

 

If we picked a corner, and you started saying how ridiculous that was because of our system, it wouldnt make sense because nobody knows, but the coaches, what we have and what we will be doing this year, so have a little faith.

 

If we didn't really need a great cover corner for our defense, do you honestly think the Bills would pick one? I don't.