Derrick Harvey shold be a Lock at 11

[marck]

Based on how the draft is starting to shake out, the best move for the Bills is go with with Derrick Harvey with the 11th pick in the 1st round. This guy is a freakish type of athlete, can bring heat from the edge and seems to have a performance history in college of being a run stopper. At 6'5" 271 he is bigger and along with the other improvements in our dline in the off-season should give us a very aggressive pass rush with just the front 4.

 

That still leaves us with the need of a complimentary WR to pair with Lee Evans. Nothing in this draft when we draft in the 2nd round is all that appealing and more importantly will not be a producer for the upcoming season. So here is my suggestion. Let's try and move our 2nd round pick for an established WR. Maybe a team like Atlanta for Michael Jenkins who I think is the bigger size WR we are looking for. I also think we should talk to Arizona about Anquan Boldin and see what they might be looking for. In the case of a Boldin, we could even dangle our 1st next year.

 

In the 3rd round I still believe we should persue John Carlson the TE from Notre Dame.

 

As always, looking for your feedback.

[JStranger76]

That would be fine by me. I'd go for Boldin, say a 2nd this year and a 2nd next. Anymore than that, I take my chances with who is left in the darft or go for a trade up into the late 1st.

[colin]

i always like a pass rusher, but if our FO likes a WR they will take him.

 

we clearly need O playmakers more than D line, the question is do have a WR good enough to draft at 11 (which means can we get him some other way, not does he project to a lower slot, because if we miss him for a value then we are still short a wr).

 

i'd take boldin in a second, is he even available?

[Jerry Jabber]

You're right, we do need help at DE. Kelsay & Schobel didn't get the job done last year. I think Kelsay & Schobel both got overpaid, and Kelsay should be a backup, not a starter. Schobel would be a great complimentary pass rusher, like Hansen & Paup were to Bruce Smith. But with the contracts Kelsay & Schobel got last year, I think we're stuck with them for another year or 2 before were can release either one and not take a huge hit on the salary cap.

 

We already beefed up the D-line in free agency, maybe with the offseason additions, it will help our pass rush. Our offense needs serious help. The only key players on offense (excluding the o-line) are Edwards, Lynch & Evans. We've been in a need for a tall physical receiver since Eric Moulds left, plus we also need a real Tight End. I was hoping to see us grab a veteran WR in FA, plus draft a WR as well. Bottom line is we need our offense to score points and we having been doing that.

[kendrickoffice]

While I believe Harvey will be there, I just can't see the Bills taking him. We have too much money tied up in Kelsay and Schobel and it just wouldnt be fiscally responsible. It would be extactic if we actually did make this move but I just can't see it happening.

 

On the note of Boldin I can't see Arizona even thinking of moving him for less than a first.

[Brandon]

I don't know if I'd call Harvey a freakish athlete or not. The combine numbers certainly don't bear that out, nor did his production at Florida. He's a very good college football player and appears to be an 'all-around' DE prospect rather than a great rusher, but is he going to be Tamba Hali or will he be like David Pollack or Michael Haynes or even Kelsay and Denney? That's what I worry about with the guy. Unless they actually are freak athletes, DEs these days seem to be a dime a dozen.

 

I definitely wouldn't mind seeing them trade for Boldin, but I'll be shocked if it happens. Otherwise, I'd rather just draft one in R2 and hope for the best, even if that guy is likely to be the 6th or 7th one off the board. Carlson isn't a bad pick at all at TE in R3.

[Joe Miner]

While I believe Harvey will be there, I just can't see the Bills taking him. We have too much money tied up in Kelsay and Schobel and it just wouldnt be fiscally responsible. It would be extactic if we actually did make this move but I just can't see it happening.

 

On the note of Boldin I can't see Arizona even thinking of moving him for less than a first.

 

 

Why does everyone think we pay our DE's so much?

 

How many times does someone have to post that their salaries are in the $2-3 million a year range? That sure as hell ain't Dwight Freeney money.

[Brandon]

Why does everyone think we pay our DE's so much?

 

How many times does someone have to post that their salaries are in the $2-3 million a year range? That sure as hell ain't Dwight Freeney money.

 

Their base salaries may be in that range, but that only tells a part of the story. Signing bonuses, roster bonuses and other incentives aren't included. Admittedly, I have not done the math, but you can take a stroll over to Bills Daily and look at their '08 cap page to get an idea of how much impact Schobel and Kelsay are really having on the Bills' finances. Or heck, I can just tell you that they list their combined cap hit this year as $13.7 million.

[JStranger76]

I agree Joe Miner. Besides Schobel, the other contracts are very low for the position actually. Should we take a DE at 11, it won't be a top 10 contract, and will be about the same as Kelsay's in total money but with 2 more years. We're probably looking at a 6 year 24 million deal no matter what position is selected and we certainly have room for it to be a DE.

[Chandler#81]

I don't know if I'd call Harvey a freakish athlete or not. The combine numbers certainly don't bear that out, nor did his production at Florida. He's a very good college football player and appears to be an 'all-around' DE prospect rather than a great rusher, but is he going to be Tamba Hali or will he be like David Pollack or Michael Haynes or even Kelsay and Denney? That's what I worry about with the guy. Unless they actually are freak athletes, DEs these days seem to be a dime a dozen.

 

Agreed. I followed his entire Gator career. He's just OK. He looked like a star because there wasn't alot of talent around him and the wins came mostly from O production. They had to score 40 points to win. IMO, if he's early 1st rd. material, then this isn't a very good year for DE's.

[obie_wan]

Agreed. I followed his entire Gator career. He's just OK. He looked like a star because there wasn't alot of talent around him and the wins came mostly from O production. They had to score 40 points to win. IMO, if he's early 1st rd. material, then this isn't a very good year for DE's.

 

maybe were you watching South Florida football.

 

For most of Harvery's UF career except his senior season, the Gators defense has been one of the best in the country.

 

Ask Ohio State how good they were.

 

 

Last year, with a big drop off in talent due to the NFL draft, Harvey was their best defensive player.

[kendrickoffice]

It seems like every time I read this board I find out that another one of our potential draft picks isnt very good and won't be able to cut it in the NFL. Is there anyone who's actually any good in this draft?

[seq004]

Id be ok taking a DE but I don't think Harvey is worth a 11 pick. I'm not convinced he'd be much of an upgrade to Kelsey.

[Dawgg]

Why does everyone think we pay our DE's so much?

 

How many times does someone have to post that their salaries are in the $2-3 million a year range? That sure as hell ain't Dwight Freeney money.

 

 

Chris Kelsay signed a 4 year deal with $8M signing bonus and an initial roster bonus of $3 million.

 

2008: $1.4 million,

2009: $3 million,

2010: $3.7 million

 

You amortize the signing bonus over the length of the contract and his cap figure is at LEAST $3.5M annually. Hardly chump change for an average player.

[Joe Miner]

Chris Kelsay signed a 4 year deal with $8M signing bonus and an initial roster bonus of $3 million.

 

2008: $1.4 million,

2009: $3 million,

2010: $3.7 million

 

You amortize the signing bonus over the length of the contract and his cap figure is at LEAST $3.5M annually. Hardly chump change for an average player.

 

Maybe I'm out of touch with NFL salaries for DE's, but I don't see that as so bank breaking we couldn't pick up another one.

[Chandler#81]

maybe were you watching South Florida football.

 

For most of Harvery's UF career except his senior season, the Gators defense has been one of the best in the country.

 

Ask Ohio State how good they were.

 

 

Last year, with a big drop off in talent due to the NFL draft, Harvey was their best defensive player.

 

A.) Ohio State was a paper champion. They wouldn't have beaten anyone in the SEC.

 

B.) They were an absolute joke defensively last year. It's easy to claim a Senior DE was the best player, but even that is just opinion. My opinion is Joiner was best player defensively on an offensive defense.

 

More to the point here, DE isn't a glaring need and the Bills still have glaring needs.

[Brandon]

Maybe I'm out of touch with NFL salaries for DE's, but I don't see that as so bank breaking we couldn't pick up another one.

 

Again, its not just the base salary. If the Bills draft Derrick Harvey at 11, that's yet another $8-10 million signing bonus that ol' Ralph has to pour into the position up front, never mind the base salaries.

[Bill from NYC]

Schobel would be a great complimentary pass rusher, like Hansen & Paup were to Bruce Smith.

 

Not so fast. Hansen was a complete player. Not a superstar mind you, but a complete player. Paup was the defensive MVP before he got hurt. Neither of these guys were "complimentary pass rushers" to anybody.

[Joe Miner]

Again, its not just the base salary. If the Bills draft Derrick Harvey at 11, that's yet another $8-10 million signing bonus that ol' Ralph has to pour into the position up front, never mind the base salaries.

 

But the Bills aren't short on cash by any means.

 

We'll have to pay a large signing bonus to whoever we draft at #11.

 

Is Kelsey's contract too big? Maybe, but why should that keep the Bills from taking someone they think they need? If he's gonna be a likely starter before the season's over and an eventual replacement for Schobel, then why wouldn't we want him?

 

Personally I think a receiver at #11 is a mistake. I don't think there is a WR in the draft good enough to be picked that high. I also don't think there is a big enough difference between the Sweed/Kelly/Thomas's and the guys in round two for the Bills to Have to draft one with their first pick.

 

There also isn't a TE that's good enough to be a #11.

 

So then you're down to DL and OL IMO. I think Harvey will likely be the best player available in that position at that time. And I think he is good enough to be taken that high.

[Brandon]

Id be ok taking a DE but I don't think Harvey is worth a 11 pick. I'm not convinced he'd be much of an upgrade to Kelsey.

 

Nor am I.

 

DE has become a lot like TE or perhaps even CB, where unless you're getting a truly great player, he's probably just another guy. As I stated in another thread, there appears to be precious little middle ground at the position anymore. The guy is either really good or he sucks. The number of first round DEs over the last 10-12 years that fit into the latter category has been at least as high as with any other position, too.

 

That's not to say that I think Derrick Harvey sucks. Heck, I'm not even sure that I wouldn't select him at 11, although I'm leaning against it. I'm just not sure what we're really getting if we draft the guy. He certainly doesn't have the look of a truly elite prospect and that's what scares me.