BoondckCL Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Do you think it still exists in today's America and to what extent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Yes, the Nextel Cup just finished up. Oh, racism, never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Yes, the Nextel Cup just finished up.Oh, racism, never mind. 845588[/snapback] redneck, KKK member, or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixon Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Racism, racial discrimination and xenophobia are not naturally instinctive reactions of human beings but rather a social, cultural and political phenomenon born directly of wars, military conquests, slavery and the individual or collective exploitation of the weakest by the most powerful all along the history of human societies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Racism, racial discrimination and xenophobia are not naturally instinctive reactions of human beings but rather a social, cultural and political phenomenon born directly of wars, military conquests, slavery and the individual or collective exploitation of the weakest by the most powerful all along the history of human societies. 845606[/snapback] Which I would argue is very much a naturally instinctive reaction of human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixon Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Which I would argue is very much a naturally instinctive reaction of human beings. 845608[/snapback] Yes it is debatable whether or not living beings are bound absolutely by instinct. Though instinct is what seems to come naturally or perhaps with heredity, general conditioning and environment surrounding a living being may play a major role. Predominately, instinct is pre-intellectual, while intuition is trans-intellectual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Yes it is debatable whether or not living beings are bound absolutely by instinct. Though instinct is what seems to come naturally or perhaps with heredity, general conditioning and environment surrounding a living being may play a major role. Predominately, instinct is pre-intellectual, while intuition is trans-intellectual. 845619[/snapback] Depends on the person. Lower forms (most humans) are bound either primarily or almost entirely by instinct; more evolved people have learned to use intuition as you suggest. I agree that such evolution is determined by conditioning and environment. That's why wealth is a much better predictor of behavior than race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Do you think it still exists in today's America and to what extent? 845580[/snapback] No. Racists are a favorite straw-man argument of the left. The last true racists are either dead or so close to death that they are inconsequential. We're just living in their shadow to even still discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixon Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Depends on the person. Lower forms (most humans) are bound either primarily or almost entirely by instinct; more evolved people have learned to use intuition as you suggest. I agree that such evolution is determined by conditioning and environment. That's why wealth is a much better predictor of behavior than race. 845691[/snapback] Instinctively, I feel I should respond. However, my Butler has brought me lunch. Do you have any Grey Poupon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Do you think it still exists in today's America and to what extent? 845580[/snapback] Kramer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Kramer! 845798[/snapback] Sharpton. It's goes both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Sharpton. It's goes both ways. 845975[/snapback] Sharpton goes both ways? Never thought he'd do that tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 It's a vicious cycle. On one had, you have a disproportionate ratio of crime along ethnic boundaries. You also have a disproportionate balance of wealth along ethnic boundaries. What breeds what? The point is, perception is what fuels racism, and behavior fuels perception. Economic prosperity generally fuels behavior. I do still believe that racism exists, and it exists moderately strong in America. It is a cycle that will continue to refresh itself as long as ignorance resides, and dependency reigns. When the majority of society realizes that complacency and dependency is the root of basic racism, and anyone can be proactive to change their situations is when things will make a turn for the better. Just because you don't have the outward expression of racism doesn't mean that everything is calm beneath the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanone Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Do you think it still exists in today's America and to what extent? 845580[/snapback] No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Ask Michael Richards and Harry Belafonte. I'm sure they see it in others, but they'll deny it exists in themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 Ask Michael Richards and Harry Belafonte. I'm sure they see it in others, but they'll deny it exists in themselves. 846332[/snapback] In regards to myself, i would not say that i am racist, but i would say some discrimination exists in me. For example i do categorize certain people into groups based on their appearence, but does that mean i am a racist? No. I am involved with people of all ethnicity's at HVCC and i am friends with a lot of people of other races. I think the thing that really bothers me though in today's world is that there is such a villanization of Caucasian males. It seems as though they/we are regarded as simple minded fools that are the root of all evil. Now personally i don't think that is fair to blame one kind of person for a problem that is disintegrating with every day in this country, but still this villanization grows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 redneck, KKK member, or both? 845599[/snapback] I think the thing that really bothers me though in today's world is that there is such a villanization of Caucasian males. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 846417[/snapback] I'll second that. I think the thing that really bothers me though in today's world is that there is such a villanization of BLACK males. It seems as though they/we are regarded as simple minded fools that are the root of all evil. 846385[/snapback] I made a change for you...much closer to the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyshaw Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Of course it does. Probably somewhat less than in the past, but I suspect it is cyclical. In the right set of circumstances it will ebb and flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 I agree that such evolution is determined by conditioning and environment. That's why wealth is a much better predictor of behavior than race. 845691[/snapback] Do you mean social evolution? If you do, then I would say we have socially evolved towards a point where racism is much less acceptable. Then you mentioned wealth, and I'll mention it in this sense. The greater wealth of society has made racism much less intense. The human competeion for resources always brings out the most ugly aspects of out nature. If you were trying to say that human beings have changed, then I would disagree with you. Lurking not far below the surface of most men is a savage waiting to jump out and committ the worst acts of violence and destruction. Same as it ever was. If you don't believe me just look at ieatcrayonz. A mass murderer waiting the opportunity to strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 I think the thing that really bothers me though in today's world is that there is such a villanization of Caucasian males. It seems as though they/we are regarded as simple minded fools that are the root of all evil. Now personally i don't think that is fair to blame one kind of person for a problem that is disintegrating with every day in this country, but still this villanization grows. 846385[/snapback] they had all the power and privilidge and did all the villifying of everyone else in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted November 24, 2006 Author Share Posted November 24, 2006 they had all the power and privilidge and did all the villifying of everyone else in the past. 846454[/snapback] I could agree with this in terms of the over all picture and historical context of racism. But i think that people today need to realize that caucasians cannot be held accountable for what their ancestors did, or didn't do. I think you are the only one who understood what i was truly saying, and i commend you for that. Okay Bart, based on what you said about the villanization of BLACK men. Yes there is this institutionalized belief that all African Americans are in some way criminals when in fact many are great people. But in modern days there is this unspoken shift to this belief that everything can be blamed on the Caucasian male, just as things used to be placed at the fault of the unrestly African American community. The difference is is that Caucasians don't really have a race card to fall back on. What i was trying to connect on, and i am not quite sure i did an accurate job, is this shift to blaming it on Caucasian males. Yes, there is a villanization of "BLACK" men in TV shows and film, but there is a social unrest among minorities that all their hardships and the blame can be placed on the shoulders of WHITE men. Just trying to add a little more flavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 I could agree with this in terms of the over all picture and historical context of racism. But i think that people today need to realize that caucasians cannot be held accountable for what their ancestors did, or didn't do. I think you are the only one who understood what i was truly saying, and i commend you for that. Okay Bart, based on what you said about the villanization of BLACK men. Yes there is this institutionalized belief that all African Americans are in some way criminals when in fact many are great people. But in modern days there is this unspoken shift to this belief that everything can be blamed on the Caucasian male, just as things used to be placed at the fault of the unrestly African American community. The difference is is that Caucasians don't really have a race card to fall back on. What i was trying to connect on, and i am not quite sure i did an accurate job, is this shift to blaming it on Caucasian males. Yes, there is a villanization of "BLACK" men in TV shows and film, but there is a social unrest among minorities that all their hardships and the blame can be placed on the shoulders of WHITE men. Just trying to add a little more flavor. 846747[/snapback] Waaah. I'm the poor oppressed white male. Waah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 I could agree with this in terms of the over all picture and historical context of racism. But i think that people today need to realize that caucasians cannot be held accountable for what their ancestors did, or didn't do. I think you are the only one who understood what i was truly saying, and i commend you for that. Okay Bart, based on what you said about the villanization of BLACK men. Yes there is this institutionalized belief that all African Americans are in some way criminals when in fact many are great people. But in modern days there is this unspoken shift to this belief that everything can be blamed on the Caucasian male, just as things used to be placed at the fault of the unrestly African American community. The difference is is that Caucasians don't really have a race card to fall back on. What i was trying to connect on, and i am not quite sure i did an accurate job, is this shift to blaming it on Caucasian males. Yes, there is a villanization of "BLACK" men in TV shows and film, but there is a social unrest among minorities that all their hardships and the blame can be placed on the shoulders of WHITE men. Just trying to add a little more flavor. 846747[/snapback] My problem with claiming white mles are villinized is that it really doesn't mean anything. There are no economic or social consequences to it. There is no mass discrimination, oppression or violence directed against them. While racism that was directed at blacks is still palpable. True, much of the institutionalized racism is gone, but the cultural effects of generations and centuries of being forcebly kept down is still evident. Blacks still perform less well than whites in schools, earn less and are more likely to live in poverty. Our parents are our number one role models and white parents have had more experience with advancing in society than have black parents. So just being born white, on average, means you have a better chance to succeed. That's just the way it is and only time will change that. And it will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Waaah. I'm the poor oppressed white male. Waah. 846774[/snapback] There, there, John. There's always the country club. We're safe there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1011 Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 My problem with claiming white mles are villinized is that it really doesn't mean anything. There are no economic or social consequences to it. There is no mass discrimination, oppression or violence directed against them. While racism that was directed at blacks is still palpable. True, much of the institutionalized racism is gone, but the cultural effects of generations and centuries of being forcebly kept down is still evident. Blacks still perform less well than whites in schools, earn less and are more likely to live in poverty. Our parents are our number one role models and white parents have had more experience with advancing in society than have black parents. So just being born white, on average, means you have a better chance to succeed. That's just the way it is and only time will change that. And it will change. 846793[/snapback] And it WILL change? Not anytime soon or in our lifetime. Do you really think black America is trying to compete with white America on getting corporate jobs that pay well? I just don't see most of black America making that effort at this stage of the country. They are so busy calling their own Uncle Tom when they succeed they lose their own focus. If you think I relish that fact I don't, it's their own racism against their own. Latinos are a bigger minority figure in the country and I don't see them having the same amount of friction with racism than blacks. The reason is simple they don't yell racism every 5 seconds and just try to make it. Irish and Italians were discriminated in this country, especially in NYS, for years. They didn't scream racism when they were segregated in schools, couldn't get jobs in cities, but they moved on. Playing the race card makes it's own problems. I don't imagine that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, who wore a suit and tie most of the time, could imagine that his "freedoms" would entail wearing pants down to their knees, rap music blaring from vehicles, etc.. He imagined Bill Cosby, Condolezza Rice, Gen. Powell, etc. who act respectably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 I could agree with this in terms of the over all picture and historical context of racism. But i think that people today need to realize that caucasians cannot be held accountable for what their ancestors did, or didn't do. 846747[/snapback] Yeah I agree with that. But I think its only a vocal minority that blame their strife on white people who are alive now BECAUSE of what white people have done in the past. Okay Bart, based on what you said about the villanization of BLACK men. Yes there is this institutionalized belief that all African Americans are in some way criminals when in fact many are great people. But in modern days there is this unspoken shift to this belief that everything can be blamed on the Caucasian male, just as things used to be placed at the fault of the unrestly African American community. The difference is is that Caucasians don't really have a race card to fall back on. What i was trying to connect on, and i am not quite sure i did an accurate job, is this shift to blaming it on Caucasian males. Yes, there is a villanization of "BLACK" men in TV shows and film, but there is a social unrest among minorities that all their hardships and the blame can be placed on the shoulders of WHITE men. Just trying to add a little more flavor. 846747[/snapback] I guess I don't see this belief you speak of to be a reality. And even if it is, I would put it an near the bottom of my list of things I am worried about in this world. In fact, I think it will be filed right above being concerned about whether the pledge of allegiance is said in schools or that intelligent design will ever be a well accepted "science." As a white male, having others blame me for everything that is wrong is virtually unconcerning. But then again, I have the luxury of being a white male...which in the USA, since forever, hasn't been too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 And it WILL change? Not anytime soon or in our lifetime. Do you really think black America is trying to compete with white America on getting corporate jobs that pay well? I just don't see most of black America making that effort at this stage of the country. They are so busy calling their own Uncle Tom when they succeed they lose their own focus. If you think I relish that fact I don't, it's their own racism against their own. 846833[/snapback] So black people are lazy and don't try hard enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungee Jumper Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 So black people are lazy and don't try hard enough? 847121[/snapback] Sounds more like he's saying that blacks diminish the role models that exemplify that success, not that they're lazy. Of course, the last civil rights demonstration I went to (The Million, plus or minus nine hundred fifty thousand, More March), most of the speakers were arguing that "success" should be redefined for the black community anyway...and that education opportunities for whites and blacks should be separate but inequal (apparently math changes depending on skin color, I don't know), so maybe they're right to idolize gangsta rappers rather than CEO's... Or maybe Martin Luther King Jr. is rolling over in his grave, watching these yahoos deconstruct his entire movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Sounds more like he's saying that blacks diminish the role models that exemplify that success, not that they're lazy. Of course, the last civil rights demonstration I went to (The Million, plus or minus nine hundred fifty thousand, More March), most of the speakers were arguing that "success" should be redefined for the black community anyway...and that education opportunities for whites and blacks should be separate but inequal (apparently math changes depending on skin color, I don't know), so maybe they're right to idolize gangsta rappers rather than CEO's... Or maybe Martin Luther King Jr. is rolling over in his grave, watching these yahoos deconstruct his entire movement. 847130[/snapback] Wow. Thats is.... retarded. Deconstruct his entire movement? More like annihilate. I guess he could be saying that, though I wouldn't think thats a "black" thing but more or less a societal thing as a whole right now - which is why I took it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prognastic Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 . I am involved with people of all ethnicity's at HVCC and i am friends with a lot of people of other races. 846385[/snapback] Some of my best friends are black! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac17 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Some of my best friends are black! i think it is david spade who i heard say "some of my best friends know black people" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1011 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 So black people are lazy and don't try hard enough? 847121[/snapback] Pretty close to what Bungee said. They take the wrong role models, don't compete in the American workplace like they should, some have a reputation for coasting because of affirmative action, and yes whether I like it or not they are taking the wrong perspective on how to form a movement which is cohesive to make them better. Does that mean all of them? Nope, but it means a sizeable enough portion to where people have shared universal experiences where they have lost trust. If they attempted to live as proper role models that image would evaporate, and the ones that do live as proper role models are put down for not "keepin' it real". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted November 25, 2006 Author Share Posted November 25, 2006 Yeah I agree with that. But I think its only a vocal minority that blame their strife on white people who are alive now BECAUSE of what white people have done in the past. I guess I don't see this belief you speak of to be a reality. And even if it is, I would put it an near the bottom of my list of things I am worried about in this world. In fact, I think it will be filed right above being concerned about whether the pledge of allegiance is said in schools or that intelligent design will ever be a well accepted "science." As a white male, having others blame me for everything that is wrong is virtually unconcerning. But then again, I have the luxury of being a white male...which in the USA, since forever, hasn't been too bad. 847103[/snapback] Oh i agree. In the grand scheme of things it really isn't that important. I wasn't trying to say that white males are overly oppressed or anything like that. But what i think is that some people feel this way and it could be that this is the root for racial tension from white people unto black people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartshan-83 Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Oh i agree. In the grand scheme of things it really isn't that important. I wasn't trying to say that white males are overly oppressed or anything like that. But what i think is that some people feel this way and it could be that this is the root for racial tension from white people unto black people. 847531[/snapback] I think ignorance and simple thinking is the root of racial tension. There is way too large a population of people who are willing to allow either limited exposure or second hand information to shape how they think. Additionally, too many people choose to do the easy thing rather than the right thing. There are far too many black people who would rather complain about the way things are than take positive steps to change them. (Not saying change is easy or even possible, but I feel many don't even try). There are far too many white people who ignorantly think an entire race of people are inferior based on what they have been told. Then there is another group of people who have somehow convinced themselves that racism and/or racial tension no longer exists in this country. I guess now that everyone shares a drinking fountain, things are A-OK. All three schools of thought retard any real significant resolution. And the problem is, the first two are significant reasons for racial tension. People are often quick to point out what is wrong with the "other side." The problem is that this is where the conversation usually ends. It is counterproductive to making compromise because no one will admit that there is another side of the coin. A lot of black people would rather complain, because they feel it is hopeless to try to change things. Maybe they have seen others try and fail, maybe they are just going by what they hear, but it leads to the same result. And this is not an unfounded belief. A lot of white people would rather feel safe in their generalizations because it is easy and safe. I hear people quote me stats like "Black males are X times more likely to commit X crime." Yet sadly, these same people use these stats to predict the behavior of an entire race as if they were placing a bet. No thought about why what they just quoted is a reality (if it even is). People tend to trust what they have heard if it comes from a credible source (parents, friends) and often prejudices are formed on a first come, first serve basis. It is much harder to find proof that something you believe is wrong than it is to find proof that confirms it. I think it comes down to the idea that people from different races do not spend nearly enough time in each other's company. No one takes the time to learn about each other when it is easier to make a generalization based on a sound bite. I think the day people of different races begin to let their guard down and accept others into their lives is the day that racism begins to extinguish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Do you think it still exists in today's America and to what extent? 845580[/snapback] good grief yes. unfortunately. white and black is just the tip of the iceberg when you consider the problems that exist between light skinned blacks and dark skinned blacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_from_north_buffalo Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 1 And it WILL change? Not anytime soon or in our lifetime. Do you really think black America is trying to compete with white America on getting corporate jobs that pay well? I just don't see most of black America making that effort at this stage of the country. They are so busy calling their own Uncle Tom when they succeed they lose their own focus. If you think I relish that fact I don't, it's their own racism against their own. 2 Latinos are a bigger minority figure in the country and I don't see them having the same amount of friction with racism than blacks. The reason is simple they don't yell racism every 5 seconds and just try to make it. Irish and Italians were discriminated in this country, especially in NYS, for years. They didn't scream racism when they were segregated in schools, couldn't get jobs in cities, but they moved on. 3) Playing the race card makes it's own problems. I don't imagine that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, who wore a suit and tie most of the time, could imagine that his "freedoms" would entail wearing pants down to their knees, rap music blaring from vehicles, etc.. He imagined Bill Cosby, Condolezza Rice, Gen. Powell, etc. who act respectably. 846833[/snapback] 1) How many whites compete for corporate jobs? I never have. Very small percentage. But blacks are getting the jobs they can. Remember, social mobility isn't about leaps and bounds, its about small steps. 2) Lations don't have a legacy of slavery or Jim Crow like Blacks do. Sure they were discriminated against but its a different historical background 3) Ya, things will have to change and change is slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prognastic Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 good grief yes.unfortunately. white and black is just the tip of the iceberg when you consider the problems that exist between light skinned blacks and dark skinned blacks. 849105[/snapback] Dont forget Northern Mexicans and Southern Mexicans or Dominicans vs Puerto Ricans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Dont forget Northern Mexicans and Southern Mexicans or Dominicans vs Puerto Ricans. 850150[/snapback] Or Dominicans vs. Jesuits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Or Dominicans vs. Jesuits 850176[/snapback] Sharks vs Jets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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