ektin Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 The Steelers used the same formula the Ravens did, great defense, good offense and a QB who doesn't make too many mistakes. I still have trouble saying Trent Dilfer, Super Bowl Winning Quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 The Steelers used the same formula the Ravens did, great defense, good offense and a QB who doesn't make too many mistakes. I still have trouble saying Trent Dilfer, Super Bowl Winning Quarterback. 799778[/snapback] And yet, the number ONE argument of the JP Hater society is that if the Bills had drafted ROETHLISBERGER that Buffalo would be a better team. And they'd be wrong. Yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I think you guys who use "the number of games player xx has under their belt" as a yardstick are either too lazy to think harder or too serious about being right all the time. If you're going to use # of games played as a yardstick, you absolutely MUST also consider the system the player was/is in, and who was/is managing them. It's easy to say "JP played in more games than so-so," but he was horribly mismanaged the past two years. But I guess that doesn't matter to anyone who simply wants to count games as a yardstick for performance. 799772[/snapback] OMG read much? "Too serious about being right"....says the guy who cuts out 90% of a post to help his case. Damn, get a job w/ ESPN or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 You guys just look for excuses for Lossman. 799711[/snapback] You just lost your remaining credibility here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 As usual, you missed the point. The point is that young QBs, even ones that are prematurely elevated to godhood, MAKE MISTAKES and sometimes look dreadful for stretches...Especially when faced with an aggressive defense. Hell, even VETERAN QBs look like that on the road against aggressive defenses. See: Chad Pennington. 799636[/snapback] I think the thing shown here is thst it is possible to even win the SB with a QB who makes mistakes or is not really a great QB. Certainly as the NFL ran into an unprecedented group of stud QBs, the vast majority of teams who won it all were directed by players who happened to teams which had players who were in the amazing class of 1983 or were rarities like Joe Montana. However, when you look at recent do not make mistake guys like Gilfer, twice cut players like Brad Johnson or even QBs you judge to be still learning like RoboQB, teams can win it all without putting all their hopes and dreams and investment in a stud QB. When one adds into that the last few SBs where guys who appeared in the big game who in fact turned out to be great QBs like Tom Brady, l;ate draft picks like Hasselbeck or even UDFA Delhomme saddling your team with an investmant in an early QB appears at best to be a dicey proposition. Further add into this that failures drafted early like Ryan Leaf or the cut Joey Harrington have taken the team which drafted them to exactly the same number of SBs without a ticket as stud QBs with major cap hits which hold their team back like Peyton Manning and Michael Vick, again paying a mint for a stud QB appears to be a dicey proposition which has low rate of success for building a team capable of making it to the last weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I think the thing shown here is thst it is possible to even win the SB with a QB who makes mistakes or is not really a great QB. Certainly as the NFL ran into an unprecedented group of stud QBs, the vast majority of teams who won it all were directed by players who happened to teams which had players who were in the amazing class of 1983 or were rarities like Joe Montana. However, when you look at recent do not make mistake guys like Gilfer, twice cut players like Brad Johnson or even QBs you judge to be still learning like RoboQB, teams can win it all without putting all their hopes and dreams and investment in a stud QB. When one adds into that the last few SBs where guys who appeared in the big game who in fact turned out to be great QBs like Tom Brady, l;ate draft picks like Hasselbeck or even UDFA Delhomme saddling your team with an investmant in an early QB appears at best to be a dicey proposition. Further add into this that failures drafted early like Ryan Leaf or the cut Joey Harrington have taken the team which drafted them to exactly the same number of SBs without a ticket as stud QBs with major cap hits which hold their team back like Peyton Manning and Michael Vick, again paying a mint for a stud QB appears to be a dicey proposition which has low rate of success for building a team capable of making it to the last weekend. 800463[/snapback] Who the hell is RoboQB? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLuca1967 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 c'mon get real. Ben was in the hospital all preseason and then had surgery the week before his first game. He's just getting healthy. I hope you're not trying to compare the two on any level besides them being drafted the same year. You guys just look for excuses for Lossman. If his play / numbers can't stand up for themselves, he shouldn't be in there! Freaks - i am not calling for Nall. I just think its retarded to make excuses for a bad performance. 799711[/snapback] Don't use logic. The sheep hate logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Don't use logic. The sheep hate logic 800497[/snapback] The surgery explains the incredibly bad decision making? I didn't realize it was brain surgery he had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 The Steelers used the same formula the Ravens did, great defense, good offense and a QB who doesn't make too many mistakes. I still have trouble saying Trent Dilfer, Super Bowl Winning Quarterback. 799778[/snapback] So much for the QB who doesn't make too many mistakes How about 7 int's and no TD's. Dude is a garbage QB and it's really beginning to show now. No Bus, no Randle El = Ben Rothleisberger's true self showing out. I'd take JP over Big Ben any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 c'mon get real. Ben was in the hospital all preseason and then had surgery the week before his first game. He's just getting healthy. I hope you're not trying to compare the two on any level besides them being drafted the same year. You guys just look for excuses for Lossman. If his play / numbers can't stand up for themselves, he shouldn't be in there! Freaks - i am not calling for Nall. I just think its retarded to make excuses for a bad performance. 799711[/snapback] ahhh, the irony. Sign #1 of a troll...contradicting themselves in successive posts to attempt to prove a point, or even in the same post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 The surgery explains the incredibly bad decision making? I didn't realize it was brain surgery he had. 800500[/snapback] Depends where his brain resides ofcourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfarr00 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 ahhh, the irony. Sign #1 of a troll...contradicting themselves in successive posts to attempt to prove a point, or even in the same post. 800620[/snapback] Kind of ironic. The difference - Ben has performed successfully in the past. He won the SB. In the playoffs last year, he put the team on his back and carried them to the SB. There is a history of success and a reason to infer that maybe some of the misfortune that occured this summer is leading to current performance. The original post was trying to compare JP and Ben and there is a fundamental difference. JP has never been successful. Anywhere. Why people need to make excuses for bad performance or bring down successes of other QBs to make JP look better is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 In the playoffs last year, he put the team on his back and carried them to the SB. 800731[/snapback] Uh, WHAT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djfarr00 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Uh, WHAT? 800748[/snapback] Denver, Indy - Ben was the leader and top performer. He wasn't all that great in the SB, but clearly did not lose the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Uh, WHAT? 800748[/snapback] Yea..you know....#55......Ben Roethlisberger......right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Brady Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 c'mon get real. Ben was in the hospital all preseason and then had surgery the week before his first game. He's just getting healthy. I hope you're not trying to compare the two on any level besides them being drafted the same year. You guys just look for excuses for Lossman. If his play / numbers can't stand up for themselves, he shouldn't be in there! Freaks - i am not calling for Nall. I just think its retarded to make excuses for a bad performance. 799711[/snapback] No actually little Ben was NOT in the hospital all preseason, because he was at training camp and actually DID throw passes in the preseason games, but don't let the facts get in the way of your grand plan ............I actually really don't care about the whole argument , ben jp rivers bla bla bla jp is in BUFFALO so thats who I'm pulling for .....Go JP!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Don't use logic. The sheep hate logic 800497[/snapback] Please - a washed up short yardage back and a utility WR can make any QB look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 That'd be a valid comparison if you could swap the situations for each QB. Put Losman in San Diego for the same period, allowing him to sit behind Brees and play for the same veteran coaching staff, while putting Rivers in Buffalo, thrusting him into the starting lineup before he's ready, in an offense with no semblence of order, and then a coaching change. Let me get this straight: you're arguing that Losman's situation is worse than Rivers' because the former was thrust into a starting role before he was ready, while Rivers was allowed to sit on the bench and learn. If that's how you feel, fine, but just be aware that you're disagreeing with the majority of Losman supporters. These people feel Losman should have been getting as much playing time as possible, on the grounds that you learn more on the field than on the bench. These supporters also feel that because Losman hasn't started as many games as, say, Eli Manning, he shouldn't be expected to be as far along in the learning process as Eli. As for the quality of Buffalo's offensive coaching staff; that staff did a better job with Bledsoe in 2004 than Gilbride staff had done with the same QB in 2003. Moreover, quarterbacks like Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox looked better in the Mularkey scheme than they've looked elsewhere. Losman's QB coach was Sam Wyche; the same man who coached Joe Montana and Boomer Esiason. So going into 2005, hopes were high for the Bills offense. I'm not saying the coaching was great--it wasn't--but it was better than some people make it out to be. In any case, Losman had a full year on the bench with which to learn the Mularkey offense before being thrown to the wolves. You bring up a good point about this year's coaching change. All the QBs on the Bills' roster should be expected to need a little time to adjust to the new terminology and system. I have, however, seen Losman supporters in general, and you in particular, write off Craig Nall because of what may have been transitory mistakes based on adjusting to the new scheme. You can't expect me to believe you when you imply that a coaching change is a valid excuse for Losman, but an invalid one for Nall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 Denver, Indy - Ben was the leader and top performer. He wasn't all that great in the SB, but clearly did not lose the game. 800770[/snapback] LMAO...the Indy game was won because the idiot kicker shanked it out of the stadium. Denver was won because Plummer couldn't make a play to save his life. That DEFENSE won the SB for the Squeelers. That and Randle-El making a huge play. That and referees beyond incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Please - a washed up short yardage back and a utility WR can make any QB look good. 800841[/snapback] Uhhhh, don't you mean a 1,000+ yard, Pro Bowl RB, who could get 3 yards at any time, and block as well as a guard in the backfield named Jerome Bettis. And a WR in Randle El who was a threat on reverses, punt returns, passing on a trick play, beating the coverage deep, and helping to open up the field for Hines Ward. Maybe, just maybe that could effect your offense a little. I still think Ben is a garbage QB though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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