Can't blame the O-line for this loss as they gave

[bluv]

Even opened a few holes for Willis later on. I was really suprised to see JP have as much time to throw as he did. This poor showing falls squarely on JP and all receivers not named Lee as well as poor coaching. I mean if the D had held the Bears in check maybe we could have snuck back in the game. The run D really disappointed me. Who was those who say we wouldn't or shouldn't miss Takeo. TAKEO COME BACK PLEASE!!!

[meazza]

Even opened a few holes for Willis later on. I was really suprised to see JP have as much time to throw as he did. This poor showing falls squarely on JP and all receivers not named Lee as well as poor coaching. I mean if the D had held the Bears in check maybe we could have snuck back in the game. The run D really disappointed me. Who was those who say we wouldn't or shouldn't miss Takeo. TAKEO COME BACK PLEASE!!!

799130[/snapback]

 

 

Really? And on what planet are you from?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Even opened a few holes for Willis later on. I was really suprised to see JP have as much time to throw as he did. This poor showing falls squarely on JP and all receivers not named Lee as well as poor coaching. I mean if the D had held the Bears in check maybe we could have snuck back in the game. The run D really disappointed me. Who was those who say we wouldn't or shouldn't miss Takeo. TAKEO COME BACK PLEASE!!!

799130[/snapback]

 

I totally agree with your assessment of the o-line--played very well. I also agree on the WR's--I think if Peerless made a few of those catches, JP maybe would have gone back to him. On the other hand, I wonder if JP just locked onto Lee all day (causing at least that first pick).

[bluv]

Really?  And on what planet are you from?

799149[/snapback]

Sacks and pass protections were not the reason we lost 40-7. From my prospective the O-Line, Lee Evans, and maybe McGahee were the only players who showed up today!

[BillsFanForever19]

Um..... how about (with the exception of Evans) average WR's who can't get open against an incredible defense?

 

But yeah, you're right; Losman sucks

[Bob in STL]

Even opened a few holes for Willis later on. I was really suprised to see JP have as much time to throw as he did. This poor showing falls squarely on JP and all receivers not named Lee as well as poor coaching. I mean if the D had held the Bears in check maybe we could have snuck back in the game. The run D really disappointed me. Who was those who say we wouldn't or shouldn't miss Takeo. TAKEO COME BACK PLEASE!!!

799130[/snapback]

 

 

So they opened holes later in the game against a prevent. YippEE!

 

The OL was completely outmatched. On the first drive, the OL once again failed to move the line on a 3rd and 1. That lead to the ill fated 4 and 1 "punt fumble" by Moorman.

 

We showed no ability to run the ball early in the game when we needed to. We fell behind and had to pass. Game over at that point.

[Ski-Whiz]

As most probably got sick of, hearing that the Bears have a lot of strong suits.

 

With stopping the Bears run, that leaves the pass open.. When the Bills tried to cover the passing monster we've seen in recent weeks in the Bears, that left open the run.

 

That's mostly why the Bears are getting a lot of props. When a team puts men in the box to stop the run, we'll hit our WR's and deep. We'll take one on one with Berrian, Mushin or Davis.

 

It's a very well balanced attack, and we seem to be able to use either one. Now the first four weeks we had to beat everyone by the air, because they stuffed the box with 7-8 bodies. Hence our poor rushing attack, which left open the pass..

 

I can see the Bills going places though! You guys are young, and the WORSE thing to do is toy with a team that is young. This is a good learning experience for the Bills. Honestly. Every great player in NFL history, and every great team, usually has a bad season at first. It takes a good year to iron out the wrinkles. Loseman is going to learn.

 

Look at Kelly back in '84 (?) when the Bills went like 2-14.. Great players aren't made over night..

 

Dick is a decent coach. We dropped him becasue he protected our OC, John Shoop who would call a 2 yd dump play when it's 3rd and 15. So Dick jumped on a granade for our OC and lost his job. So he's not the worst coach..

 

BTW, BEAT THE LIONS!!!

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Even opened a few holes for Willis later on. I was really suprised to see JP have as much time to throw as he did. This poor showing falls squarely on JP and all receivers not named Lee as well as poor coaching.

799130[/snapback]

I remember seeing Willis with 3 yards on his first 3 carries, and 10 yards on his first 5 carries. But sure, this loss falls "squarely on JP." We all expect him to go on the road against the best team in the NFC and look good with no running game whatsoever. Oh wait, you're right, we got the ground game working when it was 27-0!

 

Of course Losman takes his share of the blame, but with no running game he was a dead duck. Not to mention those dropped passes...

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

double post, my bad

[bluv]

I remember seeing Willis with 3 yards on his first 3 carries, and 10 yards on his first 5 carries. But sure, this loss falls "squarely on JP." We all expect him to go on the road against the best team in the NFC and look good with no running game whatsoever. Oh wait, you're right, we got the ground game working when it was 27-0!

 

Of course Losman takes his share of the blame, but with no running game he was a dead duck. Not to mention those dropped passes...

799265[/snapback]

Like I've said I want badly to defend JP and throw the blame elsewhere but in this game pass protection was not a big issue. There were a few breakdowns; that is to be expected. But overall he had ample time to throw the ball. With the D struggling, he threw 3 stupid picks that gave the ball right back. Dropped passes by Price didn't help. I can live with miss passes but not turnovers. Jp usually doesn't turn the ball over much and in this game he wasn't pressured into any of those picks as he played like he did last year. But the will learn from this game and bounce back. But the next time a reporter reminds him how good a D the Bears have and that they have only allowed this or that he will just say "yeah I know!"

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Like I've said I want badly to defend JP and throw the blame elsewhere but in this game pass protection was not a big issue. There were a few breakdowns; that is to be expected. But overall he had ample time to throw the ball. With the D struggling, he threw 3 stupid picks that gave the ball right back. Dropped passes by Price didn't help. I can live with miss passes but not turnovers. Jp usually doesn't turn the ball over much and in this game he wasn't pressured into any of those picks as he played like he did last year. But the will learn from this game and bounce back. But the next time a reporter reminds him how good a D the Bears have and that they have only allowed this or that he will just say "yeah I know!"

799277[/snapback]

You quoted my post, but I'm not sure that you actually read it. I never said pass rush caused Losman to turn the ball over. The reason why the O-line has to take at least some of the blame for this is because of the total lack of a running game we had today. McGahee was stopped on a 3rd and 1 on our 2nd possession (or was it the first?) of the game and he picked up 10 yards on his first 5 carries. We didn't get any kind of ground attack until it was at least 20-0.

 

I'm no blind Losman supporter. Of course he takes some of the blame. He turned the ball over far too much today and he just can't do that. And I'm with you on the point that he'll learn from today and hopefully be better for it in the future. But saying all of the blame for this falls squarely on him is absurd. Expecting him to play well at this point going into Chicago to face the NFC's best club and a defense that has embarrassed every offense they've played this year...and expecting him to do it with no running game...just isn't fair.

 

Again, thats not to mention those dropped passes...

[bluv]

You quoted my post, but I'm not sure that you actually read it. I never said pass rush caused Losman to turn the ball over. The reason why the O-line has to take at least some of the blame for this is because of the total lack of a running game we had today. McGahee was stopped on a 3rd and 1 on our 2nd possession (or was it the first?) of the game and he picked up 10 yards on his first 5 carries. We didn't get any kind of ground attack until it was at least 20-0.

 

I'm no blind Losman supporter. Of course he takes some of the blame. He turned the ball over far too much today and he just can't do that. And I'm with you on the point that he'll learn from today and hopefully be better for it in the future. But saying all of the blame for this falls squarely on him is absurd. Expecting him to play well at this point going into Chicago to face the NFC's best club and a defense that has embarrassed every offense they've played this year...and expecting him to do it with no running game...just isn't fair.

 

Again, thats not to mention those dropped passes...

799302[/snapback]

I'm not placing all the blame on JP. But pass protection was pretty good facing the Bears. The playcalling, not involving McGahee enough early on was just stupid. I don't think WM or the O-Line was given a chance to establish a running game. JP compounded that by throwing stupid int's. The thing I don't understand is that last week we repeatedely tried to ram the ball up into the strength of the Vikings D. This week it seems as if they didn't try to attack Chicago's perceieved weakness up the middle.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

We tried to establish the run early but McGahee getting 3 yards on his first 3 carries wasn't really helping the offense. And go figure that no running game, an early deficit, dropped passes, and a top-notch defense would lead a young quarterback into turnovers.

[bluv]

We tried to establish the run early but McGahee getting 3 yards on his first 3 carries wasn't really helping the offense. And go figure that no running game, an early deficit, dropped passes, and a top-notch defense would lead a young quarterback into turnovers.

799347[/snapback]

Most teams take about 10 runs to get a rhytm established. Even the BillsDaily postgame analysis pointed out that the O-Line was not the reason for the lost. Based on the past few seasons they are everybody's whippiping post but today they played an OK game.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Maybe we weren't consistently pounding the rock but thats understandable given how quickly we fell into a hole. When we did run the ball, there was no daylight to be found. I also remember Peters ruining a drive with a false start, and that wasn't the only offensive line penalty JP had to deal with. If decent pass protection against a team that hardly ever blitzed makes up for no holes in the running game and drive-killing penalties then yeah, they played fine. Again I'm not saying we lost because of the offensive line, just that they are at least partially at fault. Their aforementioned shortcomings left JP out to dry.

[port allegany]

I didn't see the game but from the nfl.com site it looks like we couldn't run when we needed to. If Losman had decent time from the OL against a very good and quick defense, then that is something we can build on. This team is going to be inconsistent - they are young, especially on offense. As long as they learn, make incremental but consistent improvement, and play hard we have something to look forward to in the future. The OL has been an embarassment for the past 3-4 years so if they are moving towards mediocrity, then that's OK for a young line. Maybe a draft choice or two or a free agent will solidify the line. As long as it's improving. The next game, Detroit, is crucial for the season as we could be 3-3 and even 3-4 after NE isn't too bad. If we are 2-5, I'm worried about the team giving up and not improving.

[MattF2000]

I seem to remember a few times were Gandy got blatantly beat, or completely whiffed, or didnt even attempt to block the DE of Chicago and Losman got sacked or threw a pic as a result. And it doesn't matter how well the OLine does if no one gets open. From the looks of the box score Evans was the only WR to make any contributions whatsoever. The Bears have made some pretty good quarterbacks look atrocious.

[Bill from NYC]

Even opened a few holes for Willis later on. I was really suprised to see JP have as much time to throw as he did.

799130[/snapback]

 

Good point! Blockrs are frequently judged upon whether or not they can open up "a few holes" when their team is down 40 or so points.

 

As for the pass protection, I gotta tell ya, when you're right, you're right. After allowing 3 sacks, a forced fumble, a false start or 2, and almost constant pressure, these guys can walk tall!

Oh wait, Ogunleye didn't play? Not to worry, they would have kicked his ass too!

 

(Sarcasm off)

 

What some people deem to be an acceptable, or even a good performance continues to astound me.

[justnzane]

of course the o-line protected losman enough when the bears only had to rush 4 and still get pressure . i was saying in the first quarter of the game "both lines are getting outplayed" and it was the truth. the o-line couldn't get any push and the d-line was ending up 5 yards down the field

[bluv]

Good point! Blockrs are frequently judged upon whether or not they can open up "a few holes" when their team is down 40 or so points.

 

As for the pass protection, I gotta tell ya, when you're right, you're right. After allowing 3 sacks, a forced fumble, a false start or 2, and almost constant pressure, these guys can walk tall!

Oh wait, Ogunleye didn't play? Not to worry, they would have kicked his ass too! 

 

(Sarcasm off)

 

What some people deem to be an acceptable, or even a good performance continues to astound me.

800481[/snapback]

Whatever. I'm not saying that he had the Hogs blocking for him but it was better than expected and certainly adequate. I mean we rushed only 4, rarely blitzed and Grossman was hit a couple of times in the first half and forced into a couple of passes that should have been picked off; was his pass protection so great? As far as run blocking and run D goes, I can see where some can shed bad light. But pass protection was not the reason this game was lost. Sure he got sacked and hit a few times but what QB doesn't?

 

It is the glass half empty half full theory. Some who want to bash JP will make it seem as if he sucks and will never amount to anything. Others will make up excuses and put the blame anywhere but on him or excuse him for being green which is understandable. But the game on Sunday, JP was given ample time to go through his reads on numerous occsaions and he just had a bad game. While he did get sacked, there was no constant pressure, man in his face, hitting him evertime he threw the ball like some claim. Blaming his poor play on the fact that he had no time in the pocket is absurd! I have seen games were protection was much worse. I'll bet Drew wish he had half the time in the pocket against the Eagles that JP had against the Bears!

[Bill from NYC]

Whatever. I'm not saying that he had the Hogs blocking for him but it was better than expected and certainly adequate. I mean we rushed only 4, rarely blitzed and Grossman was hit a couple of times in the first half and forced into a couple of passes that should have been picked off; was his pass protection so great? As far as run blocking and run D goes, I can see where some can shed bad light. But pass protection was not the reason this game was lost. Sure he got sacked and hit a few times but what QB doesn't?

 

It is the glass half empty half full theory. Some who want to bash JP will make it seem as if he sucks and will never amount to anything. Others will make up excuses and put the blame anywhere but on him or excuse him for being green which is understandable. But the game on Sunday, JP was given ample time to go through his reads on numerous occsaions and he just had a bad game. While he did get sacked, there was no constant pressure, man in his face, hitting him evertime he threw the ball like some claim. Blaming his poor play on the fact that he had no time in the pocket is absurd! I have seen games were protection was much worse. I'll bet Drew wish he had half the time in the pocket against the Eagles that JP had against the Bears!

800601[/snapback]

 

I didn't realize that your post was more about Losman than the blockers. My mistake.

 

I am not on the "Losman is the Savior" list, although it is hard to make a case that he has not improved. For this I am happy.

As for the OL, I will not give them credit for having a good game. The Bears ARE tough, and the Bills OL simply doesn't seem to be capable of playing against them.

 

Sometimes I forget that many here (not necessarily you) have never seen the Bills with a good OL, and games like this could appear to be OK.

Some teams built their OL first (Steelers and Colts to name 2), built their OL, then brought in the early round quarterback. This makes sense.

The Bills otoh drafted JP, and concentrated primarily on small "skill players" in the 2 subsequent drafts.

 

In summary, JP didn't thrill me vs. the Bears, but he was far from alone in playing poorly. I don't excuse him entirely, but the game was lost in the early stages. I am also glad that JP is mobile, because my biggest fear with JP is that he will get hurt before he shows us what he can do, and we will have to resume this ugly quarterback chase.

[tennesseeboy]

The fault for this game is this. THE BEARS WERE A MUCH MORE TALENTED TEAM. Great defensive line, great linebackers, great everything. If we do something bad against a team like that, we are going to pay dearly. And we did...every time we did something bad or someone did less everything possible. We should learn a lot from this game. Review...learn a thing or two...and forget about it. The O-line could have been better, JP could have done better, Peerless could have done better and our special teams could have done better. Nate could have done better. DJ could have coached better. Okay...lets do better this Sunday. Getting the shyt kicked out of you once in a while builds character.

[bluv]

I didn't realize that your post was more about Losman than the blockers. My mistake.

 

I am not on the "Losman is the Savior" list, although it is hard to make a case that he has not improved. For this I am happy.

As for the OL, I will not give them credit for having a good game. The Bears ARE tough, and the Bills OL simply doesn't seem to be capable of playing against them.

 

Sometimes I forget that many here (not necessarily you) have never seen the Bills with a good OL, and games like this could appear to be OK.

Some teams built their OL first (Steelers and Colts to name 2), built their OL, then brought in the early round quarterback. This makes sense.

The Bills otoh drafted JP, and concentrated primarily on small "skill players" in the 2 subsequent drafts.

 

In summary, JP didn't thrill me vs. the Bears, but he was far from alone in playing poorly. I don't excuse him entirely, but the game was lost in the early stages. I am also glad that JP is mobile, because my biggest fear with JP is that he will get hurt before he shows us what he can do, and we will have to resume this ugly quarterback chase.

800622[/snapback]

I wouldn't place all the blame at JP but against a good D the O-line held up better than expected. If I was told beforehand that the Bears would win 40-7 I'd expect a jailbreak by the Bears and 7 plus sackswith no ball movement whatsoever. For most of the game JP had ample time to throw the rock and we moved the ball . He shouldn't have force the passes that he did throw as he had our best receiver Lee singled up and open for most of the game. If he were more patient in that game and didn't give the Bears good field position by turning the ball over then that would have been a different game as the Bears would have had to adjust. We would probably still would have lost but not in the manner in which we did. Granted the D, especially run D wasn't great but Grossman tried many times to give us the ball back and we didn't grab the opportunity. By us dropping numerous picks and JP turning the ball over giving the Bears short fields the Bears could then stick with running the ball while we had to depart from our running game. Our DE's were providing pressure on the ends and if this game had been more competitive I believe Grossman would have allowed us to get back in the game.

 

And even when the Bills had a good O-line they still had those games; mainly against KC where they just looked terrible! I mean how many times did Derrick Thomas own Wolford back in the days? The O-line played awful in all the Super Bowls losses. My point is that they don't have to play great all the time just not stink the joint up. On Sunday, just like so far this season, while they weren't playing flawless like the rebirth of the Hogs, they haven't played so bad and stinking up the place either and while they can certainly be upgraded, they can't be soley blamed either. I'm a big JP supporter and want to see WM run well but I'm not blind either. WM danced too much in the first few games and JP has had decent pass protection these first 5 games. To throw the blame soley on the O-line is just masking and not admitting that these players have faults as well, need to improve and bring their best games to get full potential from the line. Once JP and WM become more consistent and come to play every game, this O-line has shown so far that they can average; block well enough for good skill positions to get the job done.