Can we send them back?

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

You travel to a country that hates the US and has elected terrorists to govern it, and have the nerve to complain that the US Government evacuated you too slowly! I would be willing to bet a lot of these people are huge critics of the Government...but demand the most help from it. I have a great idea, don't travel to the middle east if you are looking to avoid trouble. Why should lives be risked to evacuate you if you chose to travel to a terrorist nation? It would be different if somebody was kidnapped and taken to Lebanon, but these people chose not to avoid the situation.

 

On a side note, Nancy Pelosi is outraged that the evacuees were going to be charged for their rides home. This policy was enacted in the 2003 Foreign Relations Authorization Act which Pelosi voted for! But hey, it's a chance for her to take a jab at the President.

[KRC]

On a side note, Nancy Pelosi is outraged that the evacuees were going to be charged for their rides home.  This policy was enacted in the 2003 Foreign Relations Authorization Act which Pelosi voted for!  But hey, it's a chance for her to take a jab at the President.

725228[/snapback]

 

People are not supposed to remember back that far or actually hold their elected officials accountable for their votes. Haven't you learned that yet?

 

Nothing to see here...Move along...

[Gary M]

People are not supposed to remember back that far or actually hold their elected officials accountable for their votes. Haven't you learned that yet?

 

Nothing to see here...Move along...

725231[/snapback]

 

 

"I voted for it after I voted against it."

 

 

Sorry wrong Democrat.

[KRC]

Sorry wrong Democrat. 

725238[/snapback]

 

They are all the same.

[TPS]

You travel to a country that hates the US and has elected terrorists to govern it, and have the nerve to complain that the US Government evacuated you too slowly!  I would be willing to bet a lot of these people are huge critics of the Government...but demand the most help from it.  I have a great idea, don't travel to the middle east if you are looking to avoid trouble.  Why should lives be risked to evacuate you if you chose to travel to a terrorist nation?  It would be different if somebody was kidnapped and taken to Lebanon, but these people chose not to avoid the situation. 

 

On a side note, Nancy Pelosi is outraged that the evacuees were going to be charged for their rides home.  This policy was enacted in the 2003 Foreign Relations Authorization Act which Pelosi voted for!  But hey, it's a chance for her to take a jab at the President.

725228[/snapback]

 

 

are you talking about Lebanon? Palestine elected Hamas to govern it, but Lebanon's prime minister is a christian. AS for the complaining, I saw something on the news yesterday that the Americans were frustrated because they saw many other governments getting their people out quicker. Also, I'd venture to say that most of the Americans there are working for corporations, not "travellers to the Middle East".

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

are you talking about Lebanon?  Palestine elected Hamas to govern it, but Lebanon's prime minister is a christian.  AS for the complaining, I saw something  on the news yesterday that the Americans were frustrated because they saw many other governments getting their people out quicker.  Also, I'd venture to say that most of the Americans there are working for corporations, not "travellers to the Middle East".

725291[/snapback]

 

 

I believe lebanon voted Hezbolla into some part of the Government. I could be wrong. If you are working in Lebanon you still chose to go there. Last I knew your employer can't force you to relocate at gunpoint. I have no problem with our Government taking their time getting people out of an enemy country that supports terrorists. If you support our enemies, don't expect us to fall all over ourselves to rescue you.

[cromagnum]

Here's the link about the 25.000 americans in lebanon.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/18/...=cnn_topstories

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Here's the link about the 25.000 americans in lebanon.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/18/...=cnn_topstories

725364[/snapback]

 

""These operations are taking place in a war zone," Barbero said. "They involve passage through a strict blockade and are limited by the capacity of the ports and the degraded infrastructure in Lebanon." "

 

And it doesn't help that Israel cratered the runways at the airport.

 

I also liked the Katrina reference. What Katrina SHOULD have tought is is that it's a non-trivial matter to move tens of thousands of people over a shattered infrastructure. Instead, now that we have to once again move tens of thousands of people over a shattered infrastructure, the lesson people are taking from it is: "It's a trivial matter, the government is just lazy."

[SilverNRed]

""These operations are taking place in a war zone," Barbero said. "They involve passage through a strict blockade and are limited by the capacity of the ports and the degraded infrastructure in Lebanon." "

 

And it doesn't help that Israel cratered the runways at the airport.

 

I also liked the Katrina reference.  What Katrina SHOULD have tought is is that it's a non-trivial matter to move tens of thousands of people over a shattered infrastructure.  Instead, now that we have to once again move tens of thousands of people over a shattered infrastructure, the lesson people are taking from it is: "It's a trivial matter, the government is just lazy."

725367[/snapback]

No kidding. The dorks on the cable news channels were already congratulating themselves for doing such a great job on Katrina a couple days into the disaster, right before it turned out most of what they were reporting was wrong. Why be surprised that they still aren't getting the story correct?

 

That's awesome that Barbaro is helping out with the evacuation. You'd think he'd have too much going on with his leg problems to contribute. That's one brave horse.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

That's awesome that Barbaro is helping out with the evacuation.  You'd think he'd have too much going on with his leg problems to contribute.  That's one brave horse.

725370[/snapback]

 

Poor horse has such a bad case of laminitis. Why isn't the government doing more to help?

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

""These operations are taking place in a war zone," Barbero said. "They involve passage through a strict blockade and are limited by the capacity of the ports and the degraded infrastructure in Lebanon." "

 

And it doesn't help that Israel cratered the runways at the airport.

 

I also liked the Katrina reference.  What Katrina SHOULD have tought is is that it's a non-trivial matter to move tens of thousands of people over a shattered infrastructure.  Instead, now that we have to once again move tens of thousands of people over a shattered infrastructure, the lesson people are taking from it is: "It's a trivial matter, the government is just lazy."

725367[/snapback]

 

 

It is funny that CNN doesn't mention that Pelosi voted for the bill that required these "poor trapped victims" to pay for transportation out of Lebanon. If you ignore the Govenment's repeated warnings for the last several years about traveling to Lebanon, what makes you think you should be such a priotity in that same Government's agenda? You were told not to go, now live with the consequences.

[TPS]

It is funny that CNN doesn't mention that Pelosi voted for the bill that required these "poor trapped victims" to pay for transportation out of Lebanon.  If you ignore the Govenment's repeated warnings for the last several years about traveling to Lebanon, what makes you think you should be such a priotity in that same Government's agenda?  You were told not to go, now live with the consequences.

725389[/snapback]

 

According to the article, it was a 1956 law. You mentioned she voted for it in 2003 but don't provide a link. ???

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

According to the article, it was a 1956 law.  You mentioned she voted for it in 2003 but don't provide a link.  ???

725398[/snapback]

 

 

Here's the address.link

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,204278,00.html

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Here's the address.link

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,204278,00.html

725488[/snapback]

 

I'm more inclined to believe an idiot like TPS than I am FoxSnooze, frankly...

 

...no offense, TPS...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Israel 'A Mistake'?

 

Liberal Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen wrote Tuesday that the "greatest mistake Israel could make at the moment is to forget that Israel itself is a mistake." Cohen blames the creation of Israel for a century of warfare in the Middle East, including the present conflict.

 

And while he says there's "no point in condemning Hezbollah... [or] Hamas," Cohen argues that Israel should exercise restraint — writing that retaking Lebanon and Gaza would lead to world condemnation of "the inevitable sins of an occupying power." His solution?

 

Cohen says Israel should pull back, withdraw from the West Bank, and accept terrorism and rocket attacks, while "waiting (and hoping) that history will get distracted and move on to something else," adding, "It is best for Israel to hunker down."

 

This guy needs to be re-educated.

[meazza]

You travel to a country that hates the US and has elected terrorists to govern it, and have the nerve to complain that the US Government evacuated you too slowly!  I would be willing to bet a lot of these people are huge critics of the Government...but demand the most help from it.  I have a great idea, don't travel to the middle east if you are looking to avoid trouble.  Why should lives be risked to evacuate you if you chose to travel to a terrorist nation?  It would be different if somebody was kidnapped and taken to Lebanon, but these people chose not to avoid the situation. 

 

On a side note, Nancy Pelosi is outraged that the evacuees were going to be charged for their rides home.  This policy was enacted in the 2003 Foreign Relations Authorization Act which Pelosi voted for!  But hey, it's a chance for her to take a jab at the President.

725228[/snapback]

 

Because some people went and visit their family members. I have a lot of friends who are born in Lebanon who have family stuck there. There are 50 000 Canadians stuck there at the moment.

[Chilly]

You travel to a country that hates the US and has elected terrorists to govern it, and have the nerve to complain that the US Government evacuated you too slowly!  I would be willing to bet a lot of these people are huge critics of the Government...but demand the most help from it.  I have a great idea, don't travel to the middle east if you are looking to avoid trouble.  Why should lives be risked to evacuate you if you chose to travel to a terrorist nation?  It would be different if somebody was kidnapped and taken to Lebanon, but these people chose not to avoid the situation. 

 

On a side note, Nancy Pelosi is outraged that the evacuees were going to be charged for their rides home.  This policy was enacted in the 2003 Foreign Relations Authorization Act which Pelosi voted for!  But hey, it's a chance for her to take a jab at the President.

725228[/snapback]

 

It couldn't be that any of these people are Scientists, Researchers, Media, Family Members, and other such people, eh?

 

Nah, couldn't be. Anyone over in the Middle East is a bunch of America-hating bastards that need to be blown up.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Here's the address.link

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,204278,00.html

725488[/snapback]

 

Actually, the 2003 act states:

 

Section 4(b)(2)(A) of the State Department Basic Authorities Act of 1956 (22 U.S.C. 2671(b)(2)(A)) is amended to read as follows:

‘‘(A) the evacuation when their lives are endangered by war, civil unrest, or natural disaster of 
   (i) United States Government employees and their dependents, and 
   (ii) private United States citizens or third-country nationals, on a reimbursable basis to the extent feasible, with such reimbursements to be credited to the applicable Department of State appropriation and to remain available until expended.  No reimbursement shall be required which is greater than the amount the person evacuated would have been charged for a commercial air fare at the lowest rate available immediately prior to the onset of the war, civil unrest, or natural disaster giving rise to the evacuation.’’.

 

The amended portion of the 1956 act says:

        (A) the evacuation when their lives are endangered by war, civil 
   unrest, or natural disaster of--
           (i) United States Government employees and their dependents; 
       and
           (ii) private United States citizens or third-country 
       nationals, on a reimbursable basis to the maximum extent 
       practicable, with such reimbursements to be credited to the 
       applicable Department of State appropriation and to remain 
       available until expended, except that no reimbursement under 
       this clause shall be paid that is greater than the amount the 
       person evacuated would have been charged for a reasonable 
       commercial air fare immediately prior to the events giving rise 
       to the evacuation;

 

Italics mine, to illustrate the fact that

1) Pelosi voted for a bill of which a minor part was changing FIVE WORDS in the State Department Basic Authorities Act of 1956 that established the requirements of reimbursement, and

2) FoxSnooze is garbage. It took me twenty minutes to figure out precisely what Pelosi did and did not vote for, 15 of which was spent trying to navigate the GPO's site to find the text of the 1956 act. Fox either accidentally skimped on their research because they're !@#$ing idiots, or purposely did because they're conservatives. Or quite possibly both.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

This guy needs to be re-educated.

725492[/snapback]

 

 

"Cohen blames the creation of Israel for a century of warfare in the Middle East, including the present conflict."

 

Wow. That's a neat trick, considering Israel hasn't even been around for 60 years yet. Is "Richard Cohen" a pseudonym for VABills?

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

This guy needs to be re-educated.

725492[/snapback]

 

 

The Rochester DEMOCRAT & Chronicle runs Richard Cohen articles. He is truly an idiot!

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

Because some people went and visit their family members.  I have a lot of friends who are born in Lebanon who have family stuck there.  There are 50 000 Canadians stuck there at the moment.

725494[/snapback]

 

 

That's fine, the US Government warned them not to travel there. They chose to ignore that warning. Don't complain to the Government when the stuff hits the fan!

[MattyT]

This guy needs to be re-educated.

725492[/snapback]

Wow.

 

I mean. Wow.

 

I say we send Mr. Cohen over there to try to broker that "deal."

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

It couldn't be that any of these people are Scientists, Researchers, Media, Family Members, and other such people, eh?

 

Nah, couldn't be.  Anyone over in the Middle East is a bunch of America-hating bastards that need to be blown up.

725497[/snapback]

 

 

That's exactly what I said huh? That all the Americans over there need to be blown up? I know you must be smart enough to realize that is not what I wrote. Then again maybe I'm giving you too much credit. (that doesn't mean I want you blown up by the way) I don't care what they were doing there, they knew of the danger in traveling to that country and accepted the risk.

[Chilly]

That's exactly what I said huh?  That all the Americans over there need to be blown up?  I know you must be smart enough to realize that is not what I wrote.  Then again maybe I'm giving you too much credit.  (that doesn't mean I want you blown up by the way)  I don't care what they were doing there, they knew of the danger in traveling to that country and accepted the risk.

725537[/snapback]

 

That 2nd part was added as an exaggeration that I added to try to make a point about what you said in this sentence:

 

I would be willing to bet a lot of these people are huge critics of the Government...but demand the most help from it.

 

It seems as what you are saying is that people who are critics of the current people in power shouldn't receive any help from it, which is an entirely authoritarian line of thinking.

 

Most of the time the biggest critics ARE the people who get/demand the most help from it, because they're the ones who are the most directly effected by the program. To somehow imply that they receive less treatment then other individuals doesn't fall in line with Democratic ideals.

 

My other point is that it is necessary for some people to go, its not just that these people just picked up and decided to ignore the government's warnings one day instead of doing an alternative. Our government has researchers and what not over there too. To just say that these people knew the risks, and decided to go anyway, so whatever happens to them happens is rather lame.

 

If I was stuck over there, and I felt that my complaining would get me noticed and rescued quicker, I sure as hell would start bitching too. The media loves it because its very emotional and sells a good story. The government would hate it because it makes them look bad.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

That 2nd part was added as an exaggeration that I added to try to make a point about what you said in this sentence:

It seems as what you are saying is that people who are critics of the current people in power shouldn't receive any help from it, which is an entirely authoritarian line of thinking.

 

Most of the time the biggest critics ARE the people who get/demand the most help from it, because they're the ones who are the most directly effected by the program.  To somehow imply that they receive less treatment then other individuals doesn't fall in line with Democratic ideals.

 

My other point is that it is necessary for some people to go, its not just that these people just picked up and decided to ignore the government's warnings one day instead of doing an alternative.  Our government has researchers and what not over there too. To just say that these people knew the risks, and decided to go anyway, so whatever happens to them happens is rather lame.

 

If I was stuck over there, and I felt that my complaining would get me noticed and rescued quicker, I sure as hell would start bitching too.  The media loves it because its very emotional and sells a good story.  The government would hate it because it makes them look bad.

725545[/snapback]

 

Probably wouldn't change the government's reaction, though. There's this very fundamental aspect of reality - namely, reality - that dictates what you can and can't do in a situation regardless of how much people whine and B word and cry and moan.

[Chilly]

Probably wouldn't change the government's reaction, though.  There's this very fundamental aspect of reality - namely, reality - that dictates what you can and can't do in a situation regardless of how much people whine and B word and cry and moan.

725548[/snapback]

 

Oh yeah, I agree with you there, the logistics of this whole thing are crazy.

 

Still though, I don't find any fault at them for complaining and bitching, its what most anyone would do if they were in that situation too.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

That 2nd part was added as an exaggeration that I added to try to make a point about what you said in this sentence:

It seems as what you are saying is that people who are critics of the current people in power shouldn't receive any help from it, which is an entirely authoritarian line of thinking.

 

Most of the time the biggest critics ARE the people who get/demand the most help from it, because they're the ones who are the most directly effected by the program.  To somehow imply that they receive less treatment then other individuals doesn't fall in line with Democratic ideals.

 

My other point is that it is necessary for some people to go, its not just that these people just picked up and decided to ignore the government's warnings one day instead of doing an alternative.  Our government has researchers and what not over there too. To just say that these people knew the risks, and decided to go anyway, so whatever happens to them happens is rather lame.

 

If I was stuck over there, and I felt that my complaining would get me noticed and rescued quicker, I sure as hell would start bitching too.  The media loves it because its very emotional and sells a good story.  The government would hate it because it makes them look bad.

725545[/snapback]

 

 

I'll pay attention to all the complaining people interviewed by the media and see if most of them are "required" to be there or if they are there by choice. The first one I saw went there to have their baby baptized. I will bet that any government scientists or researchers won't be the ones raising hell. They probably understand the danger involved in their work. If you agree to work in Lebanon, you are no different than any other person who does a dangerous job. Firemen don't start complaining to the government when the fire gets too close to them. (none that I know of anyway). I'm certainly not saying we should abandon the Americans in Lebanon, I just think it is outrageous to complain about the US Government not saving you quick enough after they told you not to go there.

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

Oh yeah, I agree with you there, the logistics of this whole thing are crazy.

 

Still though, I don't find any fault at them for complaining and bitching, its what most anyone would do if they were in that situation too.

725552[/snapback]

 

 

Most anyone would avoid going to Lebanon unless absolutely necessary!

[Chilly]

I'll pay attention to all the complaining people interviewed by the media and see if most of them are "required" to be there or if they are there by choice.  The first one I saw went there to have their baby baptized.  I will bet that any government scientists or researchers won't be the ones raising hell.  They probably understand the danger involved in their work.  If you agree to work in Lebanon, you are no different than any other person who does a dangerous job.  Firemen don't start complaining to the government when the fire gets too close to them.  (none that I know of anyway).  I'm certainly not saying we should abandon the Americans in Lebanon, I just think it is outrageous to complain about the US Government not saving you quick enough after they told you not to go there.

725556[/snapback]

 

Or, rather, the people who are covered by the media are the people who would make the best sensationalist story, which is what you're going to find, because it sells.

 

I don't feel that having a baby baptized in Lebanon is a necesity, but what is a necesity is relative in this case.

 

As for your firemen analogy, firemen have tools to put out fires, American's over there don't have the tools to put out a conflict between two countries. Quite a difference. If a fireman gets trapped, and dies, without being able to do anything about it, I'd bet you he'd be yelling for someone to help him right up to his death, and wondering why they weren't helping him sooner, especially if other firemen from other units were trapped, and were saved by their friends quicker.

 

Most anyone would avoid going to Lebanon unless absolutely necessary!

725557[/snapback]

 

Really? Wow, I never thought of that!

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

Or, rather, the people who are covered by the media are the people who would make the best sensationalist story, which is what you're going to find, because it  sells.

 

I don't feel that having a baby baptized in Lebanon is a necesity, but what is a necesity is relative in this case.

 

As for your firemen analogy, firemen have tools to put out fires, American's over there don't have the tools to put out a conflict between two countries.  Quite a difference.  If a fireman gets trapped, and dies, without being able to do anything about it, I'd bet you he'd be yelling for someone to help him right up to his death, and wondering why they weren't helping him sooner, especially if other firemen from other units were trapped, and were saved by their friends quicker.

Really?  Wow, I never thought of that! 

725568[/snapback]

 

 

They absolutely have the tools to avoid the conflict over there...It's called a plane ticket out when the Government told them to get out long before the conflict started!

[Chilly]

They absolutely have the tools to avoid the conflict over there...It's called a plane ticket out when the Government told them to get out long before the conflict started!

725694[/snapback]

 

[RuntheDamnBall]

The Rochester DEMOCRAT & Chronicle runs Richard Cohen articles.  He is truly an idiot!

725525[/snapback]

huh huh huh, Beavis, you misspelled "Dummycrat."

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

huh huh huh, Beavis, you misspelled "Dummycrat."

726307[/snapback]

 

Tell me you don't think that Cohen is a racist. Well, at least an idiot. Go ahead. I'll wait.

[chicot]

Tell me you don't think that Cohen is a racist. Well, at least an idiot. Go ahead. I'll wait.

726845[/snapback]

 

A racist?

[finknottle]

Most anyone would avoid going to Lebanon unless absolutely necessary!

725557[/snapback]

 

I would disagree with that. Lebanon is one of the most attractive places to go in the Middle East; historically it was one of the most diverse, tolerant, and western. Prior to the civil war, Beirut was the financial capital and jewel of the region.

 

You've said several times that people have been warned against traveling there. Are you refering to Lebanon specifically, or to any Middle East or Muslim country? Are you saying that the State Department knew the Israelis would bomb? I was unaware of any travel advisories - do you have a link?

[Wacka]

As soon as the Hisballa terrorists started sending missles into Israel, I would have gotten my ass out of there.

[Lori]

I would disagree with that.  Lebanon is one of the most attractive places to go in the Middle East;  historically it was one of the most diverse, tolerant, and western. Prior to the civil war, Beirut was the financial capital and jewel of the region. 

 

You've said several times that people have been warned against traveling there. Are you refering to Lebanon specifically, or to any Middle East or Muslim country?  Are you saying that the State Department knew the Israelis would bomb?  I was unaware of any travel advisories - do you have a link?

727518[/snapback]

Before the current incident began, the most recent travel warning issued for Lebanon was dated May 2 2006, superseding the one dated November 7 2005. (And judging from a quick Google search, this warning has been around in some form since at least 1997 -- and probably a long time before that.)

 

From last November's update:

Recent events in Lebanon underscore the need for caution and sound personal security precautions. Former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri was assassinated February 14, 2005, in a car bomb attack in which 22 people were killed and many others seriously wounded; the potential for violence remains. Since March, there have been 13 separate bombings in Lebanon, resulting in the deaths of nine people and injuries to more than 78 others.

 

Americans have been the targets of numerous terrorist attacks in Lebanon in the past. The perpetrators of many of these attacks are still present and retain the ability to act. American citizens should thus keep a low profile, varying times and routes for all required travel. Americans should also pay close attention to their personal security at locations where Westerners are generally known to congregate, and should avoid demonstrations and large gatherings.

 

On April 8, 2005 U.S. Embassy officials visiting Hermel in the northern Bekaa Valley encountered a violent protest. The U.S. Government considers the potential threat to U.S. Government personnel assigned to Beirut sufficiently serious to require them to live and work under a strict security regime. This limits, and may occasionally prevent, the movement of U.S. Embassy officials in certain areas of the country. These factors, plus limited staffing, may hinder timely assistance to Americans in Lebanon. Unofficial travel to Lebanon by U.S. Government employees and their family members requires prior approval by the Department of State.