Mickey Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Initial polls show Kerry with a significant win tonight 45-36 on ABC and about the same on CBS. I think the way Bush kept getting angry and asking for extra time from the moderator, someting I don't think Kerry did even once, hurt him. I've never seen Bush so angry. If you have to tell people you are a "calm guy", you aren't. It was obvious that Kerry was getting to him. On the other hand, Kerry kept cool the whole time. Bush certainly didn't look or act like a man on the verge of a landslide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain America Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Kerry is still flopenstein Kerry and the libbers will start up the draft ,Kerry as much said so. How does he get all these extra military ,wave his magic wand? ON the other hand Bush said an all volunteer military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Keep it in one thread, Mick. And Mr. Global Crossing's "Stuffing the ballot box" tactic have anything to do with the initial poll results???? Naw....couldnt be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 When the debate first started, Kerry had the first question. His hands were shaking alot. But after a while he gained some confidence. I also liked when he was asked one question, where he was asked What exactly will you do in Iraq? And he said I'll tell you exactly what I'll do, then never answered the question. Kerry needed this more than Bush. I'll call it a tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Kerry was nervous BIG TIME at the start. But settled down nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichFan Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Initial polls show Kerry with a significant win tonight 45-36 on ABC and about the same on CBS. I think the way Bush kept getting angry and asking for extra time from the moderator, someting I don't think Kerry did even once, hurt him. I've never seen Bush so angry. If you have to tell people you are a "calm guy", you aren't. It was obvious that Kerry was getting to him. On the other hand, Kerry kept cool the whole time. Bush certainly didn't look or act like a man on the verge of a landslide. What do you think the FoxNews poll would be? How many Republicans are watching this debate on ABC or especially CBS for cripes sake? This debate did nothing to change the split. Both candidates served their base well. I believe Kerry probably gained more "independent undecideds" because he stood toe to toe with Bush on foreign policy and most of these people don't care to think about the underlying differences. But as I stated in my topic about facts, Kerry may have played loose with his remarks, and the American people will remember it if this turns out to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidey Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 When the debate first started, Kerry had the first question. His hands were shaking alot. But after a while he gained some confidence. I also liked when he was asked one question, where he was asked What exactly will you do in Iraq?And he said I'll tell you exactly what I'll do, then never answered the question. Kerry needed this more than Bush. I'll call it a tie. 51709[/snapback] And all W did is kept saying flip flop. Kerry hit hard with why wont you admit you made mistakes mister president? I am not yet decided but as a moderate republican who had his first chance to listen and see Kerry in action I must say I will investigate this plan for Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 first chance to listen and see Kerry in action I must say I will investigate this plan for Iraq. 51717[/snapback] what plan is that?? he never gave a plan. other than to say he will train Iraqi's which is already happening, and building this fantasy alliance he keeps talking about with the Germans and the French, I didn't hear any plan. your investigation won't take long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 And all W did is kept saying flip flop. Kerry hit hard with why wont you admit you made mistakes mister president? I am not yet decided but as a moderate republican who had his first chance to listen and see Kerry in action I must say I will investigate this plan for Iraq. 51717[/snapback] Kerry's plan is what? He had an oppertunity to tell us, but did'nt. Hey, I'm open to suggestions. He gave none. I liked it when Bush said 'We wont rely on someone else (the UN) making our policy decisions" But again, I thought it was a push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Initial polls show Kerry with a significant win tonight 45-36 on ABC and about the same on CBS. I think the way Bush kept getting angry and asking for extra time from the moderator, someting I don't think Kerry did even once, hurt him. I've never seen Bush so angry. If you have to tell people you are a "calm guy", you aren't. It was obvious that Kerry was getting to him. On the other hand, Kerry kept cool the whole time. Bush certainly didn't look or act like a man on the verge of a landslide. 51702[/snapback] Bush slammed those water glasses under the podium pretty hard, too. Frustrabation..... And the (without a smile) didn't exactly define patience at listening to what other people's ideas are. It's much easier living with Yes-men, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidey Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 what plan is that?? he never gave a plan. other than to say he will train Iraqi's which is already happening, and building this fantasy alliance he keeps talking about with the Germans and the French, I didn't hear any plan. your investigation won't take long. 51724[/snapback] Why dont you at least spend the time to go to web site as directed. Here are the four points of the plan http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/national_security/iraq.html Also by not just handing contracts to Haliburton and Cheneys pocket will get others in the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Why dont you at least spend the time to go to web site as directed. Here are the four points of the plan http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/national_security/iraq.html Also by not just handing contracts to Haliburton and Cheneys pocket will get others in the game 51733[/snapback] These are the 4 points laid out on JK's site: Internationalize, because others must share the burden; (fantasy alliance that will never happen with Germany and France) Train Iraqis, because they must be responsible for their own security; (this is already being done. Bush quoted 100K already trained and 125K by the end of the year. Even if that was an exageration, the process has already begun) Move forward with reconstruction because that's an important way to stop the spread of terror; (ok...do you really not think this has already begun?) Help Iraqis achieve a viable government, because it is up to them to run their own country. (govt has already been set up, with elections scheduled in January) It was nice of Kerry to lay out Bush's plan on his site, now how about telling us his plan???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 what plan is that?? he never gave a plan. other than to say he will train Iraqi's which is already happening, and building this fantasy alliance he keeps talking about with the Germans and the French, I didn't hear any plan. your investigation won't take long. 51724[/snapback] The investigation may take longer than you think. John Kerry Web Site Kerry did mention the website during the debate in answer to a question about his plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Why dont you at least spend the time to go to web site as directed. Here are the four points of the plan http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/national_security/iraq.html Also by not just handing contracts to Haliburton and Cheneys pocket will get others in the game 51733[/snapback] Ahh the old Halliburton card. Must be onee great deal, since Halliburton is thinking of selling KBR because it's losing money. Maybe Trump can buy it and put his magic touch on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Bush quoted 100K already trained and 125K by the end of the year. 51739[/snapback] Actually, the DoD itself says there's only been 50,000 and I'm not sure if that deducts those men who've been blown up by car bombs. The training is not going anywhere near as fast as it can or needs to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 If you are a Democrat, you may have seen an angry Bush. What I saw was a Bush who seemed to be thinking "This backwoods moron is so full of crap and has no idea what we're up against as a country. And he still has people who listen to him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 If you are a Democrat, you may have seen an angry Bush. What I saw was a Bush who seemed to be thinking "This backwoods moron is so full of crap and has no idea what we're up against as a country. And he still has people who listen to him." 51753[/snapback] Funny, b/c that's prol'ly what Gore was thinking with the "sighs" that were blown way out of proportion. Like "nation-building" that was the worst of evils and after 9/11, magically became our one way to solve the world's ills. Who was right about that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 These are the 4 points laid out on JK's site: Internationalize, because others must share the burden; (fantasy alliance that will never happen with Germany and France) Train Iraqis, because they must be responsible for their own security; (this is already being done. Bush quoted 100K already trained and 125K by the end of the year. Even if that was an exageration, the process has already begun) Move forward with reconstruction because that's an important way to stop the spread of terror; (ok...do you really not think this has already begun?) Help Iraqis achieve a viable government, because it is up to them to run their own country. (govt has already been set up, with elections scheduled in January) It was nice of Kerry to lay out Bush's plan on his site, now how about telling us his plan???? 51739[/snapback] A lot of what's usually presented as "needs to be done" (not just by Kerry, but by most of the media outlets as well. Even by Congress, oft times) is actually in the process of being done. Both in the war on terror in general and in Iraq specifically. You just don't hear about it. And Kerry's and Bush's plans for Iraq are for the most part similar. There's not a whole lot of variation in the ways you can paint the broad brush strokes of a plan to successfully prosecute a counter-insurgency campaign (the devil's in the details, of course...but the President never gets down to that level of detail. Or never should...LBJ did, and look what that got us.) The main point of variation seems to be internationalization: Kerry wants the international community to take on more of the burden of Iraqi security, Bush is more willing to go it alone. Other than that, I don't see a hell of a lot of difference between the two. But that difference alone worries me; frankly, I think Kerry's idea of internationalization of the Iraqi conflict and Bush's of democratization of Iraq are less steps on the path to a larger goal (as they should be), and more goals in and of themselves...and both, as goals, are pollyanna pipe-dreams, I'm afraid. At the very least, either one runs up against significant international and transnational insurgent resistance that so far has proven very effective (Mr. Kerry, just ask the Spanish. Mr. Bush...hell, just ask the Iraqis.) Kerry hasn't yet presented a plan for dealing with that as far as I've seen... ...but of course, if he did, he'd then understand the connection between Iraq and the Global War on Terror, and the necessity of prosecuting said GWOT proactively rather than reactively. That particular sophistication seems to have passed him by as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 training is not going anywhere near as fast as it can...51751[/snapback] And you've trained precisely how many national paramilitary polices forces from scratch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 And you've trained precisely how many national paramilitary polices forces from scratch? 51760[/snapback] Touche. I did the college thing b/c my knees wouldn't last 10 minutes in Basic Training. My brothers have, tho. And they both say that while the Iraqis and other -istan country's denizens aren't the brightest bulbs in the bunch, it's a combo of training and OTJE. You need to put asses on the street, just like on the football field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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