The Dean Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 That's an interesting question. ISPs have given up trying to make a big deal about people sharing a connection in household using a router (I think most do not prohibit it-at least not anymore). So for that matter, is sharing it among neighboring apartments stealing? I mean at some point, the ISP needs to get some money when new people are using its service. If it is stealing from the ISP-permission from the paying customer seems immaterial. 653710[/snapback] Well, that is also interesting. If my neighbor gives me permission to use his signal, I'm not stealing. If he's violating his agreement with his ISP...well, that's another matter. I'm not privy to the terms of his agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 One more quick kick of this long-dead horse: Usually the enforcement of laws (at least conviction) is tied to reasonable interpretation, that is: what would a reasonable person believe...etc. It would be a good argument, I think, that a reasonable person would believe an open connection was left open for free use by others, as: 1. there are an abundance of free wireless connections 2. securing that connection requires very little effort and no cost Whether it is right to do is a-whole-nother can of worms. But, play your cards right, and I think you'll be fine, legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick in RaChaCha Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 isn't it illegal to steal anything? 652270[/snapback] BINGO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 BINGO 653799[/snapback] If you read the whole thread, it's not "Bingo." It's still VERY VERY murky as to whether anything is being "stolen," or a crime is being committed. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Well, that is also interesting. If my neighbor gives me permission to use his signal, I'm not stealing. If he's violating his agreement with his ISP...well, that's another matter. I'm not privy to the terms of his agreement. 653720[/snapback] Definately agree here -- the person using the unsecured connection isn't "stealing." The person who pays for the ISP is probably violating the TOS -- but then again, in my original TOS with Comcast, I was supposed to pay Comcast a monthly fee to have multiple computers connected at once, which is ridiculous (and never enforced, as far as I know). I don't understand how some people in this thread can make this so black and white. "It's stealing, plain and simple," even when we're throwing up counter arguments and articles being linked to are showing experts saying it's very murky as well. Boggles the mind. Fun debate though (IMHO) CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 I don't understand how some people in this thread can make this so black and white. "It's stealing, plain and simple," even when we're throwing up counter arguments and articles being linked to are showing experts saying it's very murky as well. Boggles the mind. Fun debate though (IMHO) CW 653811[/snapback] Gee Fez thanks alot...I dunno, maybe I'm old fashioned or a fuddy duddy, but I was brought up that taking something that is not yours is stealing, same as cheating on a test (you aren't taking the answers away, your just "using" them )...this is how I am bringing my kids up...just because "experts" think it's a "murky" issue legally, that doesn't make it right...IMO it's stealing, in your opinion, it's not...your opinion only counts as much as mine...sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardFan Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Gee Fez thanks alot...I dunno, maybe I'm old fashioned or a fuddy duddy, but I was brought up that taking something that is not yours is stealing, same as cheating on a test (you aren't taking the answers away, your just "using" them )...this is how I am bringing my kids up...just because "experts" think it's a "murky" issue legally, that doesn't make it right...IMO it's stealing, in your opinion, it's not...your opinion only counts as much as mine...sorry. 653888[/snapback] Exactly! However technically according to the TBD charter he has 10,000 posts and you only have 5,000 so your opinion only counts half as much. You can use my paltry 350 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Then keep your wireless transmissions out of my apartment or place of residence. I dont want your trash interfering with my life. 653179[/snapback] This sounds like a satellite tv argument, if you beam the signal over my backyard I am entitled to intercept it. Of course the people who tried that argument lost. And the courts called it theft. So taterhill is a criminal. A common criminal no less! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 is it Legal to steal someones internet signal? Who cares? If you're worried about being caught about anything, you'll get eaten. Either don't sweat it, or don't play. This really a huge worry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux of Borg Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 This sounds like a satellite tv argument, if you beam the signal over my backyard I am entitled to intercept it. Of course the people who tried that argument lost. And the courts called it theft. So taterhill is a criminal. A common criminal no less! 654230[/snapback] Is that a pink collar crime? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 If someone enters your unlocked house and robs you is it a crime? 652347[/snapback] yes without a doubt. Just like stealing a car with the keys still in it. It's not your stuff, hands off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Why be so cheap? Or are you in a Ted Kazinski style house and just cant get access? Actually that's pobably it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Then keep your wireless transmissions out of my apartment or place of residence. I dont want your trash interfering with my life. 653179[/snapback] That works both ways ? How can one do that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 This sounds like a satellite tv argument, if you beam the signal over my backyard I am entitled to intercept it. Of course the people who tried that argument lost. And the courts called it theft. So taterhill is a criminal. A common criminal no less! 654230[/snapback] Satellite signals are encrypted. If DirecTV or Dish broadcast their signal unencrypted, I'd say I'm free to use it as well. But guess what, they don't. Encrypt your wireless, and you'd have a leg to stand on. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Gee Fez thanks alot...I dunno, maybe I'm old fashioned or a fuddy duddy, but I was brought up that taking something that is not yours is stealing, same as cheating on a test (you aren't taking the answers away, your just "using" them )...this is how I am bringing my kids up...just because "experts" think it's a "murky" issue legally, that doesn't make it right...IMO it's stealing, in your opinion, it's not...your opinion only counts as much as mine...sorry. 653888[/snapback] So you find a $100 bill in your yard, you just let it blow away? It's not yours, so you must. Next time you drive down the street and hear someone's car radio, you better plug your ears -- you're "stealing" their radio signal and they don't want you listening to it. Heck, if I'm talking to someone and you're near me, you better not listen because I don't want you stelaing my sound waves. They're meant only for the person I'm talking to. I'm glad your world is black and white. Mine has many shades of gray. EDIT: Keep in mind that we're discussing the legality because the topic of the thread is whether it's LEGAL or not. This isn't a morality question. And even if it were, morals aren't black and white for most people either. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 That works both ways ? How can one do that ? 654684[/snapback] They actually make wallpaper that blocks radio waves. It was pretty expensive though. It'd be much better to simply ENCRYPT YOUR SIGNAL. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous Guy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Next time you drive down the street and hear someone's car radio, you better plug your ears -- you're "stealing" their radio signal and they don't want you listening to it. Heck, if I'm talking to someone and you're near me, you better not listen because I don't want you stelaing my sound waves. They're meant only for the person I'm talking to. I'm glad your world is black and white. Mine has many shades of gray. EDIT: Keep in mind that we're discussing the legality because the topic of the thread is whether it's LEGAL or not. This isn't a morality question. And even if it were, morals aren't black and white for most people either. CW 654726[/snapback] as my hero Ron Burgandy would say...agree to disagree. as for global statements about my world....remember, you don't know me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Is that a pink collar crime? 654262[/snapback] Only if you are downloading Ricky Martin or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 This sounds like a satellite tv argument, if you beam the signal over my backyard I am entitled to intercept it. Of course the people who tried that argument lost. And the courts called it theft. So taterhill is a criminal. A common criminal no less! 654230[/snapback] Thats not what i was saying. If you have sat TV and beam the signal into my house from yours, where i can pick it up, its illegal for me to watch your signal? Again, as Fez and I have said numerous times, its not about the morality of the topic, just the legality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Thats not what i was saying. If you have sat TV and beam the signal into my house from yours, where i can pick it up, its illegal for me to watch your signal? 654924[/snapback] Yes it is. you cannot share that signal legaly. Wi Fi is a different issue comapared to this argument in some respects though. But legaly, you cant share a DirecTV signal between houses for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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